The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

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muirinho
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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by muirinho » 06 Dec 2018 17:41

Training Ground Guru have done an analysis of Academies in terms of how many players they have produced, and have ranked us 14th. which is pretty decent I think.

Have a look

https://trainingground.guru/articles/ac ... gs-2017/18

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by NewCorkSeth » 06 Dec 2018 18:40

muirinho Training Ground Guru have done an analysis of Academies in terms of how many players they have produced, and have ranked us 14th. which is pretty decent I think.

Have a look

https://trainingground.guru/articles/ac ... gs-2017/18

Interesting that only England eligible players are counted.
Good to see anyway.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Nameless » 06 Dec 2018 18:46

NewCorkSeth
muirinho Training Ground Guru have done an analysis of Academies in terms of how many players they have produced, and have ranked us 14th. which is pretty decent I think.

Have a look

https://trainingground.guru/articles/ac ... gs-2017/18

Interesting that only England eligible players are counted.
Good to see anyway.


Not sure the weighting does much except push PL. clubs higher. It’s hardly a shock that more Man U Academy products play in the PL than ones from Accrington.
Good to see us above Fulham.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by SCIAG » 06 Dec 2018 22:50

On Holmes, yes he's currently injured but his selection against Bolton was very much down to him being Stam's flavour-of-the-week. He kept changing who his favourite young centre back was and it just so happened that the week he decided to drop Ilori, it was Holmes. A few weeks earlier he'd wanted to sell Blackett and use McIntyre in the same role but McIntyre got injured. Went through similar things with Andresson, Jules, Dickie, Oxford, and of course Ilori and Blackett themselves. Don't want to take anything away from any of them but Stam basically thought that whoever had just had a good training session was going to be the future of the club.

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NewCorkSeth
muirinho Training Ground Guru have done an analysis of Academies in terms of how many players they have produced, and have ranked us 14th. which is pretty decent I think.

Have a look

https://trainingground.guru/articles/ac ... gs-2017/18

Interesting that only England eligible players are counted.
Good to see anyway.


Not sure the weighting does much except push PL. clubs higher. It’s hardly a shock that more Man U Academy products play in the PL than ones from Accrington.
Good to see us above Fulham.

I think distinguishing between the level that players end up playing at is worthwhile. Yes, United and Chelsea and so forth probably have their pick of the players, but it's still worth noting that they produce more professionals, and better professionals, even if we can explain that with reference to factors other than coaching. People say "don't sign for Chelsea, since Terry the only academy player to play any significant time in their first team is Bertrand"... well, yes, but they've produced more Championship players than we have.

If the aim of the article is to recommend which clubs parents should be sending their kids to, then it fails due to the lack of controls. Ideally we would get all the clubs in a region to agree that these are the best 300 eleven-year-olds in the region and then randomly assign players to clubs and see how they turn out. Do that for ten years and you'll be able to tell which academy is genuinely the "best".

The other big flaw in that post is the silly "England eligible" criterion. It basically penalises clubs for having players with foreign parents. Zaha is no less good because he plays for the Ivory Coast. Alex Pearce is no less good (or less English) because he plays for Ireland. We have players like Simon Cox, Jake Taylor, and probably soon Thomas McIntyre, who lived in Reading all their lives (until we sold them) but have a foreign parent or grandparent and so apparently don't count. Somewhat harmless with them, perhaps, but when it spills over into "Michael Hector isn't really English" then there's a problem. It creates a false incentive for clubs to focus on white English players, because you're not likely to produce a Sterling (great) but you could easily produce a Zaha (worthless) so better to produce a dozen Paul Brookers than a dozen Jobi McAnuffs.

/rant

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by muirinho » 06 Dec 2018 22:56

SCIAG On Holmes, yes he's currently injured but his selection against Bolton was very much down to him being Stam's flavour-of-the-week. He kept changing who his favourite young centre back was and it just so happened that the week he decided to drop Ilori, it was Holmes. A few weeks earlier he'd wanted to sell Blackett and use McIntyre in the same role but McIntyre got injured. Went through similar things with Andresson, Jules, Dickie, Oxford, and of course Ilori and Blackett themselves. Don't want to take anything away from any of them but Stam basically thought that whoever had just had a good training session was going to be the future of the club.

Nameless
NewCorkSeth Interesting that only England eligible players are counted.
Good to see anyway.


Not sure the weighting does much except push PL. clubs higher. It’s hardly a shock that more Man U Academy products play in the PL than ones from Accrington.
Good to see us above Fulham.

I think distinguishing between the level that players end up playing at is worthwhile. Yes, United and Chelsea and so forth probably have their pick of the players, but it's still worth noting that they produce more professionals, and better professionals, even if we can explain that with reference to factors other than coaching. People say "don't sign for Chelsea, since Terry the only academy player to play any significant time in their first team is Bertrand"... well, yes, but they've produced more Championship players than we have.

If the aim of the article is to recommend which clubs parents should be sending their kids to, then it fails due to the lack of controls. Ideally we would get all the clubs in a region to agree that these are the best 300 eleven-year-olds in the region and then randomly assign players to clubs and see how they turn out. Do that for ten years and you'll be able to tell which academy is genuinely the "best".

The other big flaw in that post is the silly "England eligible" criterion. It basically penalises clubs for having players with foreign parents. Zaha is no less good because he plays for the Ivory Coast. Alex Pearce is no less good (or less English) because he plays for Ireland. We have players like Simon Cox, Jake Taylor, and probably soon Thomas McIntyre, who lived in Reading all their lives (until we sold them) but have a foreign parent or grandparent and so apparently don't count. Somewhat harmless with them, perhaps, but when it spills over into "Michael Hector isn't really English" then there's a problem. It creates a false incentive for clubs to focus on white English players, because you're not likely to produce a Sterling (great) but you could easily produce a Zaha (worthless) so better to produce a dozen Paul Brookers than a dozen Jobi McAnuffs.

/rant


Worth going back to Training Ground Guru with those points - I hadn't noticed the "England" restriction, but it's silly. Possibly they are trying to cut out all the "Spanish youngster arrives at Chelsea at 16" kind of players, who aren't really academy products. But, as you say, it rules out players like Simon Cox and Alex Pearce. Also means Swansea and Cardiff's rating is nonsense. They should think again.

However, also worth noting that this is not an "official" ranking - these guys are trying to come up with something, in the total absence of any kind of rating or analysis from the FA.


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Brain Traysers » 07 Dec 2018 01:21

Agree with others that that metric is sub-optimal.

It looks like the FA conduct their own 'productivity' metrics, based on the last 3, 6, 9 and 12 years of academy graduates. Their definition of an Academy player seemingly ins't limited to English only players (see 1.7 in FA guidelines - note: link is a 330kb pdf download).

Unfortunately they are anonymised rankings, so clubs find out where they fit (and boast about it e.g. Birmingham and Bolton), but not who is above/below them, and fans only find out from those select clubs who chose to publish it themselves. I really can't see why anonymity would be the FA's policy, other than concerns about big clubs headhunting a whole successful set up from a small club. They don't have a problem with the same big clubs hoovering up talent - the power to cherry pick the best talent was embedded into the benefits of having an EPPP Cat1 academy.

Has anyone seen anything from Reading on this?

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Nameless » 07 Dec 2018 09:04

Does the ‘England eligible’ criteria apply only once a player has committed to another country at full international level ?
Liam Kelly played for Ireland at youth level, would that have made him Irish. He’s not played for their full team so is also eligible for Ireland.
Danny Loader has played for England at youth level but may well be eligible for other countries. He’s England eligible now but may also have a Welsh grandparent so might opt for the next year.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by NewCorkSeth » 07 Dec 2018 09:29

From what I could tell they only included player who at any point could have played for England if they were called up so I thought a player like Pearce is included in ours but a player like Gylfi isn't as he played for Iceland before naturalising.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Royals and Racers » 07 Dec 2018 10:28

Big match tomorrow for the U23`s with a lunchtime KO 1pm away to West Brom at their training ground. 3 points would be useful to keep them at the top of the Premier league 2 2nd division table.
table https://www.flashscores.co.uk/football/ ... standings/


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by WoodleyRoyal » 07 Dec 2018 10:38

Royals and Racers Big match tomorrow for the U23`s with a lunchtime KO 1pm away to West Brom at their training ground. 3 points would be useful to keep them at the top of the Premier league 2 2nd division table.
table https://www.flashscores.co.uk/football/ ... standings/


who will be taking charge if Marshall is looking after the first team?

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Royals and Racers » 07 Dec 2018 10:49

WoodleyRoyal
Royals and Racers Big match tomorrow for the U23`s with a lunchtime KO 1pm away to West Brom at their training ground. 3 points would be useful to keep them at the top of the Premier league 2 2nd division table.
table https://www.flashscores.co.uk/football/ ... standings/


who will be taking charge if Marshall is looking after the first team?

David Dodds i would imagine

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Royals and Racers » 08 Dec 2018 10:52

FA youth cup 4th round draw has been made and if the Royal`s U18`s get past Cambridge Utd on Tuesday(away) another away tie awaits at Aston Villa or Swansea. Matches to be played by Saturday January 19th.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by muirinho » 08 Dec 2018 12:05

Out of curiosity, went into Wikipedia to have a look at Scott Marshall's career, as I knew next to nothing about him. Came across this little gem, which maybe puts some of our own defenders into context.

In August 1998, Dave Jones signed him for Southampton on a free transfer. Saints thought they had made a transfer coup, but Marshall soon showed why Arsenal let him go, scoring an own goal in his debut against Leeds United in a 3–0 defeat on 8 September 1998, repeating this four days later in a 4–0 defeat at Newcastle United.
He never appeared again for Saints and went out on loan to Celtic, where his only appearance was in an Old Firm derby with Rangers in May 1999. Marshall ended up on the wrong end of a 3–0 scoreline, a game which saw Celtic's bitter rivals win the league at Celtic Park. This meant that Marshall had featured in just three league games in the 1998–99 season (two for Southampton and one for Celtic), had lost all three and had conceded 10 goals.


More significantly, just two years prior to this he'd been voted Arsenal's Young Player of The Year. So he's in a good position to be telling our young tyros that it doesn't matter how good they are at youth and U23 level, they've got to keep improving. Some players never improve beyond the level they were at when they were 18 - sometimes because they peak early, sometimes because of their own actions or inactions.

Just shows how hard it is to judge who is going to make it.


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Royals and Racers » 08 Dec 2018 12:42

Royals and Racers Big match tomorrow for the U23`s with a lunchtime KO 1pm away to West Brom at their training ground. 3 points would be useful to keep them at the top of the Premier league 2 2nd division table.
table https://www.flashscores.co.uk/football/ ... standings/


Jonathan Bond in goal for West Brom today. cannot find the Royals line-up yet !!!

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by muirinho » 08 Dec 2018 13:09

Royals and Racers
Royals and Racers Big match tomorrow for the U23`s with a lunchtime KO 1pm away to West Brom at their training ground. 3 points would be useful to keep them at the top of the Premier league 2 2nd division table.
table https://www.flashscores.co.uk/football/ ... standings/


Jonathan Bond in goal for West Brom today. cannot find the Royals line-up yet !!!


Desbois; Balogun, Odimayo, Burley, Richards; East, Frost; Harriott, Clement, Medford-Smith; House

Subs: Boyce-Clarke, Nolan, Wallace, Green, Omolabi

Richards gets some more minutes to get fit

Harriott and Clement being kept fit for quick sale?

Osho and McIntyre are probably with the first team squad.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Royals and Racers » 08 Dec 2018 13:56

West Brom 1 Reading 0
West Brom 2 Reading 0 F-T

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by windermereROYAL » 08 Dec 2018 15:06

Marshall in charge of the 1st team, U23s lose first game in 15,

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Royals and Racers » 09 Dec 2018 08:03

Not a great day for the club yesterday as the U18`s lost 6-1 at Stoke in the premier league cup. hopefully they will be able to field a strong side in the FA youth cup tie at Cambridge on Tuesday.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Royals and Racers » 10 Dec 2018 15:25

U18`s FA youth cup tie at Cambridge Utd is tomorrow night KO 7pm( maybe it will be streamed).
After the Royals were kicked out of last seasons youth cup due to fielding an under age player, i hope this FA rule is pinned up large in the academy office !!!!!
(j) Only those players are eligible to take part who have reached the age of 15 years by
midnight on 31 August of the current season and not reached the age of 18 years as at
midnight on 31 August of the current season. (For season 2018-2019, a player must have
been born on or after 1 September 2000 and before 1 September 2003).

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by windermereROYAL » 11 Dec 2018 11:20

Josh Barrett returning to Reading after 7 appearances and no goals at Aldershot, not sure where he can go from here after the ill fated league 2 loan period at Coventry.

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