Building for next season

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Sutekh
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Re: Building for next season

by Sutekh » 01 May 2018 14:21

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Double d v2
What a great post!

I think that we need another keeper who will challenge Mannone for 1st choice. Not a backup keeper.

We need 2 strikers.

We need a new RB.

We need a bone crunching CM who will sweep up, and then start play.

We need good backups and subs bench. We do not have that.

We need a pacey striker.

We need a RW and LW who can also defend,

We need leaders and discipline.

Absolutely .


A total overhaul should be ruled out, would not surprise me that the compo for Stam would be taken out of our transfer kitty, also our large squad needs to be cut down to enable any real spend. However gaps need to be looked at to avoid anything like this season to happen next year.
A natural CF - very hard to come by with out spaffing the £££
a ball winning CM - the most crucial position to IMO, not technically gifted but can tackle and pass the ball 10 yards quickly - potential captain.
a new CB - think llori and Moore are a decent partnership (recently) but a player like Elphick would bolster our squad/options

Think we should only be buying players who will be in the starting 11 or pushing for starts. NO MORE SQUAD FILLERS!! (unless they are seriously cheap)


The 2 must have main priorities for me this summer are :

1. That ****** striker
2. A no nonsense "take no prisoners" leader of a midfielder

That doesn't mean we couldn't do with other options being added of course but think the above 2 are the must haves before anything else.

And add to that a rethought playing style that involves playing with tempo and letting the oppostion know they're in a game.

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Re: Building for next season

by Double d v2 » 01 May 2018 14:54

Hopefully we can get some very good loan players in which will actually make a difference, with Clements connections. Think Abraham at Bristol City.

I would not say no to somebody like Maitland-Niles/Willock or Nelson or Hudson-Odoi from Chelsea (yesterday in fa youth cup final he looked seriously good.... Granted against under 18s)

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Re: Building for next season

by Hendo » 01 May 2018 14:56

Been down the road of loans before and it is a no from me.

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Re: Building for next season

by Double d v2 » 01 May 2018 14:58

Hendo Been down the road of loans before and it is a no from me.


I think they have been the very wrong choice. Grabban is on loan to Villa and somehow scores almost every game, but for us was shite. Martin has always been decent. Vydra is the top scorer I think this season.

Much rather a young hungry player who can push for a first team then a late 20s striker who cannot get into another first team.

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Re: Building for next season

by Coppells Lost Coat » 01 May 2018 15:02

Double d v2 Hopefully we can get some very good loan players in which will actually make a difference, with Clements connections. Think Abraham at Bristol City.

I would not say no to somebody like Maitland-Niles/Willock or Nelson or Hudson-Odoi from Chelsea (yesterday in fa youth cup final he looked seriously good.... Granted against under 18s)


I dont think looking at youth FA cups is an ideal place to look for upgrades on our playing staff.
If i remember correctly, we have tried to go down the path of getting highly rated youngsters in and they sit on the bench. Oxford and Afobe jump to mind.


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Re: Building for next season

by Hound » 01 May 2018 15:04

Sutekh
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A total overhaul should be ruled out, would not surprise me that the compo for Stam would be taken out of our transfer kitty, also our large squad needs to be cut down to enable any real spend. However gaps need to be looked at to avoid anything like this season to happen next year.
A natural CF - very hard to come by with out spaffing the £££
a ball winning CM - the most crucial position to IMO, not technically gifted but can tackle and pass the ball 10 yards quickly - potential captain.
a new CB - think llori and Moore are a decent partnership (recently) but a player like Elphick would bolster our squad/options

Think we should only be buying players who will be in the starting 11 or pushing for starts. NO MORE SQUAD FILLERS!! (unless they are seriously cheap)


The 2 must have main priorities for me this summer are :

1. That ****** striker
2. A no nonsense "take no prisoners" leader of a midfielder

That doesn't mean we couldn't do with other options being added of course but think the above 2 are the must haves before anything else.

And add to that a rethought playing style that involves playing with tempo and letting the oppostion know they're in a game.


Agree Sutekh. Be interested to know what people would think of not signing another striker though and instead putting faith in Novakovich or Smith. Or even Loader. Yann's still likely to be knocking about, and the consensus seems to be to keep Bodvarsson, so we already have Bod, Yann, Smith, Loader and Novakovich for possibly 1 spot.

I actually wouldn't be that aghast if we tried one of the young players before blowing a load of cash on another striker. Novakovich has been called up by the US and scored 20 goals this year. Surely worth a punt, rather than buying someone like dd's mate from Peterboro? Can't imagine the standard is much different

No argument on the CM though. Rinomhota looks capable and I'd promote him to back up the first 11, but for me a tough athletic and disciplined midfielder is the absolute must for the close season, to play alongside 2 of Swift, Bacuna and Kelly.

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Re: Building for next season

by Coppells Lost Coat » 01 May 2018 15:13

Double d v2
Hendo Been down the road of loans before and it is a no from me.


I think they have been the very wrong choice. Grabban is on loan to Villa and somehow scores almost every game, but for us was shite. Martin has always been decent. Vydra is the top scorer I think this season.

Much rather a young hungry player who can push for a first team then a late 20s striker who cannot get into another first team.


It is almost certainly with man management with all the above players. A bit farcical that the last few seasons we have had the likes of Grabban, Vydra and Martin this season and be getting very little out of them (10 goals between them in 65 games?). Albeit all on loan, I think we have spent enough money on loans to continue down that road.

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Re: Building for next season

by Denver Royal » 01 May 2018 17:14

Snowball In order to make the finals of the Championship PO's

We will need a striker who can get 25 goals or two 15-20 goal strikers.
We need, power, strength, aggression, speed, hardness, the sort you get
from a non-stop, take the knocks forward line, my personal favourite(s)
being the Long-Hunt partnership.

I like Bodvarrson, but for us to be challenging the top two and making the top
six (not merely challenging), Bod would be 3rd or 4th striker, not a regular starter.


We need that same toughness, hardness, experience, ball-WINNING ability in
midfield. My favourite example of that would be Elwood (Leigertwood) and (IMO)
we need a "buzzer", like Karacan at his best or Steve Quinn.

We are so easily outplayed in midfield. We are soft, lightweight. Kelly is OK if he has
two players do the speed-work, the kicking, the HARD tackling. He does win ball when
on form, but just not enough, not regularly enough. He also has this peculiar "lack of urgency"
about him (most obvious when he walks towards the corner flag at about one mile an hour.
That is AWFUL body-language and he genuinely wastes a few minutes per game.

Kelly AT HIS BEST is decent, but he has played most of this year as if he's carrying an injury
or is seriously unfit or has a medical problem (I'm serious). He hasn't buzzed (to the best of
my memory) all season. Yes he's made a few passes, scored a few goals, got a toe in, but
nothing like enough to be an automatic choice.

Swift looked to be a player that was going to improve and improve, but whether it be between the ears
or fitness, health, injuries, he has rarely looked worthy of a place in midfield. Phrase it differently. If this season's
form was all you knew of these players (sat at Norwich or Forest or QPR) would you want to sign them for
a serious push at the play-offs? No way.

Maybe it's just fitness and they are fundamentally knackered. MAYBE a summer regime and an extra week's
fitness training, a harder, much harder pre-season, and many of the players might look 100% better.

I don't know.

BACUNA, if he can be taught positional discipline, could be our Williams replacement. When I first saw
him I thought he was a BIG step up from Williams (who I always thought flattered to deceive). I think,
well-coached, he could be an excellent player, and with his ball control, relative hardness, hard running
he OUGHT TO BE one of the first names on the team-sheet.

The worry with him is whether he can be consistent enough for Stam-Clement types who seem
to want safety, discipline and consistency over flair.

All three can ON THEIR DAY be very good indeed, but they have to have "on their day" days at
least 30 times a season (and be OK for the other 16 games) if we are to have a good season.

IMO we need a classy, aggressive, experienced midfielder/captain/leader, a Mr Reliable, a bit scary
for opponents AND team-mates... a Roy Keane type. And I guess that wouldn't be cheap.

So we already are saying three expensive buys unless we can find another Elwood.

Personally, although I'm Welsh and I like Gunter the bloke, I DON'T like him as a full-back.
I think he's negative, un-brave and always looks for the safest option. I don't mean safe for the team,
I mean safe for him. He hardly ever takes a player on, doesn't get anything like enough tackles in
on wingers, lets too many crosses come over. I would rather see a hard man in that position.

I think if we stay up and are top-half, Ilori, if he's a regular, will get better and better. He has a pedigree,
has the ball skills to break out, and just needs coaching to minimise errors. Being a regular will help
him mentally. I also wonder if he might make a very, very good deep midfielder.

Moore is the CB equivalent of a shot-stopper goalkeeper. He can get his head in, get a tackle or a block in,
but doesn't seem to organise a defence, doesn't seem to me to make the tackle unnecessary very often.

The back four hasn't played as a unit for quite a while, and he's is the one regular player.

I'd be happier if we had a big aggressive CB (like Morrison). Moore would look great alongside one,]\as would Ilori.
But I think both Ilori and Moore (and A N OTHER) should be fine once the manager gets a pre-season to work on them.

McShane may go. There were signs earlier in the season that suggested he was over the hill. I like the bloke
and he might come back and do a job, but I can't believe he'd be good enough as first choice CB in a side
aiming for the top six.

Mannone is "OK" but I feel he's a very good back-up keeper, again not someone I'd imagine
as clear regular first choice in a top six team. I very much doubt, though, that we'd be looking
to buy a keeper clearly better than Mannone, but Al-Habsi, Feds, McCarthy, and before that Hahnemann (sp?)
inspired more confidence. "OK" isn't enough for top six.

Left back? Hmmm. Obita at his best is better than OK, but we have no idea how he will be when he comes back.
Omar Richards has promise, but there's no way (IMO) he could be first-choice for a top-six season in 2018-19,
so I just don't know at LB, another reason why we will keep Gunter.

But 2019-20 we could have Watson and Richards as the fullbacks. That could be very good!

I think, this squad is better than 19th, but has played way below par this season. Whether they can write this season off and get their heads right for next year, I dunno. If they could I would expect a top-half finish from THIS SQUAD.

But more likely we need to at least partly break things up to bring back belief and lose the losing habit.

BUT, if I'm right and we had two decent strikers (or one great one), a really good hard ball-winning midfielder, a mentally-strong right back (and Obita is OK for LB), a big nasty CB who scores from corners, and a talismanic shot-stopper, yes, then we'd have a side that could be aiming for top six.

Or we go down and bounce back and re-learn that winning feeling


Snowy, excellent post. There are some darn good points in there.

Hopeful on Kelly. Think there's a player in there. Still young. Clements' arrival has been an adjustment. He looked better under Stam, imo, more technical, short passes. He's passing less now, and longer, and they aren't coming off. Could improve next season with full pre-season under Clement, get his timing back, etc. With short frame, fitness is important. And yes, needs to play alongside Roy Keane rather than John Swift.

Bod, there's things to like. Certainly a trier. Good team player and team mate, who cares. Almost too nice, really. Didn't get the best service. Has tailed off a bit, which I expected. Long season, never had this workload. Assume he'll get another season, which he deserves. Needs to improve in the air, which his height should facilitate. Major strides needed next season as starting lone striker vs big CB lumps in Champ twice a week. Almost 26, but a young 26, presumably has scope and improvement in him.

Mannone, I'm not as high as some others, but if he's the man again, so be it. Watching opposing GK's this season, not sure there are many he is better than? He's ok, but rarely felt we had clear advantage at GK going in to games. For example, I'd take the Ipswich keeper in a heartbeat.

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Re: Building for next season

by Zip » 01 May 2018 21:04

A bit concerning that Obita has just another knee op. He has been a big loss this season.


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Re: Building for next season

by Hound » 01 May 2018 21:16

Zip A bit concerning that Obita has just another knee op. He has been a big loss this season.


It is. Sounds fairly minor and routine though. Obvs hope he comes back ok and people are patient. Going to be a long road back to getting to the level he was at back end of last season - where he was quite possibly the best LB in the division

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Re: Building for next season

by Zip » 01 May 2018 22:00

Hound
Zip A bit concerning that Obita has just another knee op. He has been a big loss this season.


It is. Sounds fairly minor and routine though. Obvs hope he comes back ok and people are patient. Going to be a long road back to getting to the level he was at back end of last season - where he was quite possibly the best LB in the division


Very worrying given he was injured on 23rd September and over seven months later needs another op. I had assumed he would be back for the start of next season. That’s not happening now.

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Re: Building for next season

by Hound » 02 May 2018 07:39

Wouldn’t assume that - still 3 months to the new season kicks off. Depends on his progress otherwise

In saying that I think we’ll be quite lucky if he is back fully firing by Christmas. Been injured for over a year really if you include his ankle issues

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Re: Building for next season

by Snowflake Royal » 02 May 2018 08:18

Remember whwn our injury lay offs were measured in days and weeks not months and years?

No, me neither.

That's Roberts, Karacan, Quinn, Harriott, Obita, and Watson all out for about a season or more in the last 5-6 years. And I'm bound to have forgotten someone.


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Re: Building for next season

by Hound » 02 May 2018 08:41

Snowflake Royal Remember whwn our injury lay offs were measured in days and weeks not months and years?

No, me neither.

That's Roberts, Karacan, Quinn, Harriott, Obita, and Watson all out for about a season or more in the last 5-6 years. And I'm bound to have forgotten someone.


tbf a cruciate ligament was career ending little lone season ending not so long ago

Harriott and Watson are odd ones - they seemed to have recovered really slowly. Mendes as well.

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Re: Building for next season

by Coppells Lost Coat » 02 May 2018 08:44

Snowflake Royal Remember whwn our injury lay offs were measured in days and weeks not months and years?

No, me neither.

That's Roberts, Karacan, Quinn, Harriott, Obita, and Watson all out for about a season or more in the last 5-6 years. And I'm bound to have forgotten someone.


Out of that list, how many out of those players actually returned and stayed fit??? a lil worrying.
Struggled with injuries since Fearn left for Chelsea

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Re: Building for next season

by tee peg » 02 May 2018 08:56

Coppells Lost Coat
Snowflake Royal Remember whwn our injury lay offs were measured in days and weeks not months and years?

No, me neither.

That's Roberts, Karacan, Quinn, Harriott, Obita, and Watson all out for about a season or more in the last 5-6 years. And I'm bound to have forgotten someone.


Out of that list, how many out of those players actually returned and stayed fit??? a lil worrying.
Struggled with injuries since Fearn left for Chelsea


If Harriott was a dog you would put it down.Some of our "injuries" are a joke.

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Re: Building for next season

by Sutekh » 02 May 2018 09:23

tee peg
Coppells Lost Coat
Snowflake Royal Remember whwn our injury lay offs were measured in days and weeks not months and years?

No, me neither.

That's Roberts, Karacan, Quinn, Harriott, Obita, and Watson all out for about a season or more in the last 5-6 years. And I'm bound to have forgotten someone.


Out of that list, how many out of those players actually returned and stayed fit??? a lil worrying.
Struggled with injuries since Fearn left for Chelsea


If Harriott was a dog you would put it down.Some of our "injuries" are a joke.


Karacan and Roberts were fairly quantifiable and known to be long term at the time. What I don't though get is the incessant run of injuries being picked up in training or hamstring problems over and over again. However, Tim Dellor said he'd had it on good authority that Reading's training sessions under Jaap had a lot of analysis in them rather than actual training so you can probably understand why players have had problems - not to mention issues with fitness.

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Re: Building for next season

by windermereROYAL » 02 May 2018 11:29

Some comments from the boss regarding next seasons squad, he`s ruled out wholesale changes, and he said we have to many strikers and that will need to be addressed.
Obviously Martin will be gone, but surely we would take quality over quantity.

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Re: Building for next season

by Sutekh » 02 May 2018 14:21

windermereROYAL Some comments from the boss regarding next seasons squad, he`s ruled out wholesale changes, and he said we have to many strikers and that will need to be addressed.
Obviously Martin will be gone, but surely we would take quality over quantity.


I don't call 2 senior strikers and Novakovich as a hopeful but unknown quantity too many esp. as one of those senior strikers is 37 and retiring next year. On top of that they're all too similar in style so you need something different.

Smith and Loader are not ready and need time out on loan somewhere while Mendes is out of contract in the summer and has been injured for nearly 2 years anyway so I wouldn't expect the club to offer a new deal there.

Overall wholesale changes are ruled out because most of the squad is tied down on long deals and/or no-one would want to buy them any way.

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Re: Building for next season

by JIM » 02 May 2018 15:37

Watch where the parachute payment is spent ,to see the owners intent.

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