Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

[Westwood52]

I don't know why on earth the Chinese bought the Club-presumably they wanted somewhere to park some money, before their Govt banned foreign investment. I agree with Adie Williams however, in so far that I believe they are largely blameless for the current debacle.
The funds they have provided, should have been sufficient.
Bacuna, Bod, Barrow and Aluko were on paper major investments-however perhaps given that Bod at best was something of a back up option.
In January they pitched in with Martin and Elphick;which again were positive moves.
I really believe given FFP ; they couldn't have done much more.
Some blame might be attached to them for hanging on to Stam far too long-but most of us are against knee jerk reactions when it comes to sacking managers.Equally they should have stepped in when some idiot gave Joey and Kermit further contracts.

I believe major blame lies at Teverden and Gourlays door. The only positive if we go down;is that they will both be gone; as their positions and salaries are un affordable in Div 1.

While the complete failure of both Managers and backroom staff is considerable, add to that also the failure of the sports scientists and fitness staff to maintain a reasonable level of fitness and available players.How can Harriot and Mendes be unavailable all season-how come MCShane's hamstring has taken so long to heal ?

At the end of the day its the Players who have let us down most. I have watched live something like 30 games this season, and I cannot remember one convincing performance. Each week, I thought this was going to be the one;when they would put in a shift;but it just never happened. It would be a miracle; despite all the players promises, that they hit top form on Sunday,and once again I fear the worst.
Logically Burton and Barnsley are not both going to win and also Brum nick a point; the chances of all three happening is slim-however it has been that sort of season and I have that sinking feeling.

[From Despair To Where?]

There is definitely an issue with fitness. I think that area of the coaching set up needs a complete reappraisal. Player fitness is absolutely paramount IMO.

We seem to get a lot of niggly training injuries. There also seems to be a lot of hamstring problems. Poor preparation maybe or just shit conditioning?

I think the owners are still in their honeymoon period. I can see the point of Gourlay but again, something isn't working. Likewise Tevreden. We were singing his praises in the summer of 2016. Maybe 2016 was a fluke but you don't turn shit overnight.

The players also. They take the blame for the performances on the pitch but I don't think they are the root of the problem, Clement has inherited a squad that is physically and mentally unfit. Everything points to a shambolic coaching setup and that is what the owners absolutely must address this summer.

[Hound]

I think all parties have some part to blame, and you've summed it up quite well in the OP

Agree that the main failing, and the one that strikes me every time I watch is what exactly is going on in training? We've looked unfit all season, and the one thing that every non regular who I have bought along this season mentions is the complete lack of movement in midfield and upfront. I think this is largely due to fitness. Adding to the appalling injury and recovery record, the one thing I'd like to see a complete and total overhaul of in the close season is the coaching and training methods.

I do blame Stam largely for letting the poor coaching happen - though that might be slightly misguided. I'm not sure who decided to bring Gilkes in, but it seems to have been a big step down from Reid

[muirinho]

I think all parties have some part to blame, and you've summed it up quite well in the OP

Agree that the main failing, and the one that strikes me every time I watch is what exactly is going on in training? We've looked unfit all season, and the one thing that every non regular who I have bought along this season mentions is the complete lack of movement in midfield and upfront. I think this is largely due to fitness. Adding to the appalling injury and recovery record, the one thing I'd like to see a complete and total overhaul of in the close season is the coaching and training methods.

I do blame Stam largely for letting the poor coaching happen - though that might be slightly misguided. I'm not sure who decided to bring Gilkes in, but it seems to have been a big step down from Reid

Hard to know from the outside who had a big influence on getting coaches in etc, but would be good to see that being overhauled during the summer, as it's been very poor for the last few years. Possibly Gilkes was a "one of our own" type job - I know people like guys with connections to the club coming back - but it needs to be the right people in the right roles.

[PistolPete]

Blame lies with:

Recruitment:

Problem is, who don't know who calls the shots. We have been left with an injury prone, gutless team. It's the kind of thing that psychometric testing should illuminate, but a team with McShane, Gunter, Edwards (and led by Stam!!) ought not be so lacking in character, but for whatever reason, it seems to be. Add this fact to long contracts which allow them to play without financial motivation, and a bad run of results can cause a malaise.

Medical:

As people have said, too many players have spent too long out. Arsenal seem to have struggled for years with this - I just don't believe it to be coincidence.

Stam:

He was a manager who seems to be 10/10 for coaching, and 2/10 for crucial other attributes. The players loved him but didn't fight for him. It's strange, but perhaps he needed a better/better fit number 2

[muirinho]

Blame lies with:

Recruitment:

Problem is, who don't know who calls the shots. We have been left with an injury prone, gutless team. It's the kind of thing that psychometric testing should illuminate, but a team with McShane, Gunter, Edwards (and led by Stam!!) ought not be so lacking in character, but for whatever reason, it seems to be. Add this fact to long contracts which allow them to play without financial motivation, and a bad run of results can cause a malaise.

I know people have plenty to say about Gunter, but McShane is club captain - but he admitted in a newspaper column that at the tail end of McDermott's regime, for instance, the apathy was so high some players couldn't even be bothered putting their training bibs into the bins provided instead of leaving them on the floor - yet he, as club captain, didn't seem able or inclined to do anything about it!

Is that recruitment? Or something else.

I'm not sure long-term contracts make a hill of beans difference either way - according to latest figures that I've just seen on twitter Reading are 10th for average pay - given increased housing costs down south, that means we're actually further down that list in real terms than 10th. Players can get better deals elsewhere - particularly if they play well! A long term contract means - as long as this suits both of us, you can stay. If we're not paying outrageous salaries, (unlike Jack Rodwell!) I think it would be possible to move players on without a massive amount of difficulty.

[Maneki Neko]

owners to blame for putting STAM/TEV/Gourlay in charge,
gourlay and tev to blame for the most appalling recruitment, spending millions on players shit we didn't need
stam to blame for motivation, fitness and tactics.

[From Despair To Where?]

But the current owners didn't appoint Stam or Tevreden and both of them built up a fair amount of credit last season. We havent even recruited that badly. Bod, Mannone and Barrow have been decent signings, Clement is showing promise, Aluko, Bacuna, Edwards, Elphick and Martin should be good signings for this league. It all points to shit coaching. The owners only real mistake has been not sacking Stam in January.

[NewCorkSeth]

I blame the fans. If they had just backed the boys and made some noise we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Hiram K Hackenbacker]

I blame the fans. If they had just backed the boys and made some noise we wouldn't be in this mess.

I agree

[Hound]

But the current owners didn't appoint Stam or Tevreden and both of them built up a fair amount of credit last season. We havent even recruited that badly. Bod, Mannone and Barrow have been decent signings, Clement is showing promise, Aluko, Bacuna, Edwards, Elphick and Martin should be good signings for this league. It all points to shit coaching. The owners only real mistake has been not sacking Stam in January.

Agree with all that. Though Martin probably should not have been signed, and was done in a bit of a panic and because he was available.

[NewCorkSeth]

I blame the fans. If they had just backed the boys and made some noise we wouldn't be in this mess.

I agree

Thank you. In fact it's astounding that the fans didn't do that this season as we employ a guy to remind us to do it for every home game. Maybe the club should print leaflets to give to the fans to remind them?

[Forbury Lion]

owners to blame for putting STAM/TEV/Gourlay in charge

I think they're more to blame for not taking action to fix these mistakes in good time than for making them in the first place and it's cost them financially as a result.

Maybe Gourlay is actually good at his job (regardless of what you've heard from someone down the pub who knows someone with a relative who knows someone at the club who doesn't like him) - Being good is better than being liked when it comes to doing your job. We don't actually know what his job description is or how far his power and influence stretch, For all we know he may have been advising the owners to sack the manager 6 months ago and didn't have the power and authority to do it himself. I can understand him publicly backing the manager when cornered - what else is he supposed to do?

Brian/Stam - It will be interesting to know who instigated the signings we made and who was in charge of the budget and whether they forgot to keep some aside for a new striker.

Player motivation/effort/attitude - Yes, down to the players but the manager is there to manage his staff and get the best out of them - when they are at their lowest find a way to perk them up and get them motivated. If Stam can't do the arm round the shoulder, feely feely thing that some players need then he should have recruited a assistant manager who can...... and the club captain should shoulder some of the blame, it's his job to do this as well!

[From Despair To Where?]

But the current owners didn't appoint Stam or Tevreden and both of them built up a fair amount of credit last season. We havent even recruited that badly. Bod, Mannone and Barrow have been decent signings, Clement is showing promise, Aluko, Bacuna, Edwards, Elphick and Martin should be good signings for this league. It all points to shit coaching. The owners only real mistake has been not sacking Stam in January.

Agree with all that. Though Martin probably should not have been signed, and was done in a bit of a panic and because he was available.

I'm worried because a malaise seems to have set in. The club seems to have a losing mentality and like the proverbial oil tanker, it's going to take a fcuk of a lot of turning round.

If we stay up on Sunday, I can see us flirting with relegation in 12 months time and if we go down, I don't see us coming back up immediately.

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

I blame the fans. If they had just backed the boys and made some noise we wouldn't be in this mess.

I agree

Thank you. In fact it's astounding that the fans didn't do that this season as we employ a guy to remind us to do it for every home game. Maybe the club should print leaflets to give to the fans to remind them?

You do know that's all he ever posts don't you? I wouldn't take it as validation.

[NewCorkSeth]

I agree

Thank you. In fact it's astounding that the fans didn't do that this season as we employ a guy to remind us to do it for every home game. Maybe the club should print leaflets to give to the fans to remind them?

You do know theta's all he ever posts don't you? I wouldn't take it as validation.

Way to burst my bubble.

[Hound]

But the current owners didn't appoint Stam or Tevreden and both of them built up a fair amount of credit last season. We havent even recruited that badly. Bod, Mannone and Barrow have been decent signings, Clement is showing promise, Aluko, Bacuna, Edwards, Elphick and Martin should be good signings for this league. It all points to shit coaching. The owners only real mistake has been not sacking Stam in January.

Agree with all that. Though Martin probably should not have been signed, and was done in a bit of a panic and because he was available.

I'm worried because a malaise seems to have set in. The club seems to have a losing mentality and like the proverbial oil tanker, it's going to take a fcuk of a lot of turning round.

If we stay up on Sunday, I can see us flirting with relegation in 12 months time and if we go down, I don't see us coming back up immediately.

Some poster ages ago in the autumn mentioned they weren't that supportive of the signings, as they had come from clubs who had been rubbish the years before they came to us (Wolves, Sunderland, Villa) and would have the losing mentality.

Dismissed it a bit at the time, but in retrospect, may well have been onto something. Losing hasn't seem to have come as a shock this year, and we've not bounced back from defeats the way we did last season. Replaced Williams, Al Habsi, and Yann who had come off the one of the best seasons of their career with 4 who had got used to losing.

[Denver Royal]

I'm worried because a malaise seems to have set in. The club seems to have a losing mentality and like the proverbial oil tanker, it's going to take a fcuk of a lot of turning round.

Stam turned it around. In his first season, in his first job. We finished 17th and 19th the 2 years prior (a malaise then, too?). We finished 3rd last season. Not many questions about fitness and motivation then, right? By any reckoning, we overachieved, players busted ass. Totally unexpected, we almost got promoted, nobody thought we had talent for PL.

This season, different story. Injuries early doors, esp to strikers. But ok, he is fired. So, at most then, the only season he fecked up was this one, or part of it. If he had been fired in January, he would have only have fecked up and be blamed for about 4 months.

We have a new manager now. With more experience. Gourlay hired his buddy. Clement himself is already approaching 2 months on the job. At higher wages, and with a longer contract (3 years). Presumably motivation and fitness - if they are issues - are being addressed.

Expectations for next season? Apparently not many...

[Zip]

I agree

Thank you. In fact it's astounding that the fans didn't do that this season as we employ a guy to remind us to do it for every home game. Maybe the club should print leaflets to give to the fans to remind them?

You do know that's all he ever posts don't you? I wouldn't take it as validation.

I agree

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

Thank you. In fact it's astounding that the fans didn't do that this season as we employ a guy to remind us to do it for every home game. Maybe the club should print leaflets to give to the fans to remind them?

You do know that's all he ever posts don't you? I wouldn't take it as validation.

I agree

I see what you did there. Bravo sir!