BFTG West Brom

Victor Meldrew
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6716
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 19:22
Location: South Coast

Re: BFTG West Brom

by Victor Meldrew » 08 Oct 2018 14:47

Stranded
Victor Meldrew
The late, great Bill Shankly always said that before signing a player he wanted to know as much about him and his character as he could discover.
He said that anybody could see a player's ability on the pitch so there was nothing difficult in spotting a good player but it was so important to know more about the individual.

It seems to me that players are now sometimes bought on video evidence only and that the old boy was right-you might buy an Aluko or a Blackett if you saw him have a good game but you might not buy him if you knew more about the player as a person.
I think the best managers do ask around using contacts within the game but it doesn't look as though ours have with a number of our signings in recent times.


Fair point but PC signed neither of those and bar Ezatholi (arguably the best signing) we can't say for sure that any of his signings were purchased just on video footage.


When I said "in recent times" I was including those from the Stam era so not directly aimed at Clement.
It's too early to say whether PC's signings will be successes-Yiadom and Baldock so far, so good, Eza looks promising but Meyler, O'Shea (injured already) and Walker have yet to fully show their worth as does Mc Nulty.

It is Aluko, Blackett and Gunter (all previous managers' signings) who lack concentration, determination and application and we are not a strong enough side to carry these types-they just don't give enough to the cause and are playing big parts in dragging us down to Div 1 when I suspect they are amongst the biggest current earners.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: BFTG West Brom

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Oct 2018 14:49

John Smith
NewCorkSeth Barrow was not good when he was brought on but should have been brought on much sooner.

Right, so you thought he should have come on sooner so he could have been worse sooner?

Fold your account and go and post on the Yeovil Town forum instead.

That's not really how football works.. he was subbed in at 3-1 in the 75th minute. He should have been brought on at 1-1 to make West Brom adapt to a different tactic. They were tired at the back and Dawson was carded and had a poor first half. Bringing on Barrow with the instruction to run at him would have been a positive change.

Coppells Lost Coat
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1031
Joined: 28 Sep 2017 15:44

Re: BFTG West Brom

by Coppells Lost Coat » 08 Oct 2018 14:55

NewCorkSeth
Of course I wouldn't expect Meite and McNulty to start when our other options are fit but their failure to work together should have been noted by Clement by half time. Everyone focused on the positivity of our first half performance without noting the glaring issues. A good manager would have changed it up sooner. Once it got to 1-1 there should have been a change. We needed to take the rhythm away from West Brom (something other managers do to us often a successfully).

We had control of midfield, better fitness levels by some distance (I can see West Brom fading this season as half their players looked wrecked) and never looked like scoring despite having 2 up front.

Barrow was not good when he was brought on but should have been brought on much sooner. They had such slow defenders who could easily have been overwhelmed by the sudden introduction of Barrow but again Clement waited.

I don't think PC can do anything about this simply because he doesn't have the ability to. He has no motivation skills from what I can see and is showing time and time again he is too naive on match day.


PC did pretty well for the 1st half - did not react to the 2nd half, It was glaringly obvious that they were not going to continue with the 1st half approach. PC was ill prepared for WBA changing up their style. Naming 3 wingers on the bench?? Naming zero CF on the bench???

Sims should of come on much sooner, probs just after the 1st or even the 2nd, then Barrow come on straight after the 3rd.
We had 3 unanswered goals before a change was made - thats a big factor to the loss.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: BFTG West Brom

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Oct 2018 15:10

Coppells Lost Coat
NewCorkSeth
Of course I wouldn't expect Meite and McNulty to start when our other options are fit but their failure to work together should have been noted by Clement by half time. Everyone focused on the positivity of our first half performance without noting the glaring issues. A good manager would have changed it up sooner. Once it got to 1-1 there should have been a change. We needed to take the rhythm away from West Brom (something other managers do to us often a successfully).

We had control of midfield, better fitness levels by some distance (I can see West Brom fading this season as half their players looked wrecked) and never looked like scoring despite having 2 up front.

Barrow was not good when he was brought on but should have been brought on much sooner. They had such slow defenders who could easily have been overwhelmed by the sudden introduction of Barrow but again Clement waited.

I don't think PC can do anything about this simply because he doesn't have the ability to. He has no motivation skills from what I can see and is showing time and time again he is too naive on match day.


PC did pretty well for the 1st half - did not react to the 2nd half, It was glaringly obvious that they were not going to continue with the 1st half approach. PC was ill prepared for WBA changing up their style. Naming 3 wingers on the bench?? Naming zero CF on the bench???

Sims should of come on much sooner, probs just after the 1st or even the 2nd, then Barrow come on straight after the 3rd.
We had 3 unanswered goals before a change was made - thats a big factor to the loss.

We have the benefit of hindsight but I still like to think I would have made the change sooner.

Bringing Barrow on in place of Balckett with a switch to the 4-3-2-1 (moving Meite to AMR) would have done enough to stop the momentum West Brom were gaining.

Meite would have been up against Gibbs winning aerials.. clear winner there..

This also would have given McNulty the players he needed outside him to play those through balls he's so fond of.

User avatar
John Smith
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4717
Joined: 20 Jan 2010 23:47
Location: Astronauts The New Conquistadors

Re: BFTG West Brom

by John Smith » 08 Oct 2018 15:17

NewCorkSeth .

You had far too many lagers at the match by the sounds of things young man


User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: BFTG West Brom

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Oct 2018 15:19

John Smith
NewCorkSeth .

You had far too many lagers at the match by the sounds of things young man

Maybe you didn't have enough? Ever think of that?

User avatar
John Smith
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4717
Joined: 20 Jan 2010 23:47
Location: Astronauts The New Conquistadors

Re: BFTG West Brom

by John Smith » 08 Oct 2018 15:30

NewCorkSeth
John Smith
NewCorkSeth .

You had far too many lagers at the match by the sounds of things young man

Maybe you didn't have enough? Ever think of that?

I'm willing to consider it, yes.

Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19587
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: BFTG West Brom

by Stranded » 08 Oct 2018 16:06

NewCorkSeth Certainly some of the chopping and changing is down to injury but there are several examples: the dropping of Ilori for McShane being one despite Ilori being in good form, the swapping of Yiadom to the left to accommodate the equally capable on the left Gunter upon his return from injury, the constant use of Meite as a fill in which I believe will hinder his growth.

Of course I wouldn't expect Meite and McNulty to start when our other options are fit but their failure to work together should have been noted by Clement by half time. Everyone focused on the positivity of our first half performance without noting the glaring issues. A good manager would have changed it up sooner. Once it got to 1-1 there should have been a change. We needed to take the rhythm away from West Brom (something other managers do to us often a successfully).

We had control of midfield, better fitness levels by some distance (I can see West Brom fading this season as half their players looked wrecked) and never looked like scoring despite having 2 up front.

Barrow was not good when he was brought on but should have been brought on much sooner. They had such slow defenders who could easily have been overwhelmed by the sudden introduction of Barrow but again Clement waited.

I don't think PC can do anything about this simply because he doesn't have the ability to. He has no motivation skills from what I can see and is showing time and time again he is too naive on match day.


McShane and Ilori had played well together in the first 2 games, games we really should have taken at least 2 points from if not 4. McShane was then rested for a cup game to allow Moore to be reintroduced after "transfergate" , it was no surprise to see McShane come back in as club captain alongside a now reinstated Moore - it is only the fact McShane went on to have an absolute mare at Blackburn (and to a lesser extent v Bolton) that that now looks a crazier decision than it was. No manager is going to drop his captain if he isn't playing badly. Once he did, he was dropped and Ilori brought back in, Ilori has undoubtedly improved under Clement.

Yiadom was purchased to cover both flanks, he is better at LB than Gunter so it also made sense - your view on whether Gunter should even be in the team withstanding.

Agree, waiting until 3-1 down to make changes was a mistake but as you say we were winning the midfield battle and looked fitter, so is not fair to think that given how well the team did 1st half that the extra fitness may have counted, we were sloppy letting in a 3rd and the game was gone. Would Barrow have made any difference coming on at 2-1, impossible to say but his performance suggests not. We are sadly seeing the other side of Barrow this year.

You can disagree with the decisions but if you look at them in the context of how and when they were made they were OK calls. Subsequent events change the view of them.

Clement has made mistakes (he needs to sort out how we defend corners) but I come back to it time and again, I don't know what can be done to stop this mental fragility - that is the number 1 problem. The team expects to lose and as soon as something goes against them they lose their collective heads. The equaliser was the catalist this weekend, against Norwich it was actually us equalising. God knows what it will be against Millwall but it will be something.

Top Flight
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3269
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 22:46

Re: BFTG West Brom

by Top Flight » 08 Oct 2018 18:13

Stranded
Victor Meldrew
The late, great Bill Shankly always said that before signing a player he wanted to know as much about him and his character as he could discover.
He said that anybody could see a player's ability on the pitch so there was nothing difficult in spotting a good player but it was so important to know more about the individual.

It seems to me that players are now sometimes bought on video evidence only and that the old boy was right-you might buy an Aluko or a Blackett if you saw him have a good game but you might not buy him if you knew more about the player as a person.
I think the best managers do ask around using contacts within the game but it doesn't look as though ours have with a number of our signings in recent times.


Fair point but PC signed neither of those and bar Ezatholi (arguably the best signing) we can't say for sure that any of his signings were purchased just on video footage.


Regarding Ezatolahi, Clement consulted with his friend Carlos Quieroz the Iran national team coach. And at 22, Ezatolahi is beginning to remind me of a young Steve Sidwell. I think Eza is showing huge potential and could be an outstanding player for us. We need to make sure we secure his services permanently in January. We don't want him getting away. Yiadom has also been a brilliant signing and is a player that Clement has been following over the past few seasons. Sims is another that Clement clearly knows and perhaps if he wasn't just a loan would probably be getting more game time. Sims seems like a strong character and always puts in a shift. As for Walker, you can understand why Clement brought him in. He's tall and decent but is not proven at Championship level. It's a gamble. A manager has to have license for trial and error. Coppell was experimenting all the time and bringing players in and then moving them on if it didn't work. If it doesn't work with Walker fair enough. It doesn't mean Clements not a good manager. I will only be concerned if he sticks with him when he has better players available or and doesn't make any attempt to continually try to improve the side. I think Clement is doing a good job so far.


Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24936
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: BFTG West Brom

by Hound » 08 Oct 2018 19:26

‘A good job’ is pushing it

‘A tough job not especially well’ is how I’d class it

Anyone know if Bod and Eza are actually away with their international teams btw? Think Gunter and Yiadom are

User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: BFTG West Brom

by Zip » 08 Oct 2018 19:33

Hound ‘A good job’ is pushing it

‘A tough job not especially well’ is how I’d class it

Anyone know if Bod and Eza are actually away with their international teams btw? Think Gunter and Yiadom are


If he is doing a good job now I dread to think how few points we would have if he was doing a bad job.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: BFTG West Brom

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Oct 2018 21:00

Zip
Hound ‘A good job’ is pushing it

‘A tough job not especially well’ is how I’d class it

Anyone know if Bod and Eza are actually away with their international teams btw? Think Gunter and Yiadom are


If he is doing a good job now I dread to think how few points we would have if he was doing a bad job.

Probably somehow in negative points.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Horsham Royal, Jammy Dodger, Mid Sussex Royal, Orion1871, Richard, Sutekh and 479 guests

It is currently 29 Mar 2024 14:25