BFTG - Ipshit H

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Sutekh
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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Sutekh » 12 Nov 2018 14:54

Reading4eva It also depends on who you are playing. If you have a run of Hull, Rotherham, Ipswich, Bolton and Millwall and mustered up 10 points for example, at the start of a season, for example, would you for example say your the best team in the league

Course you wouldn't. We are shit and will be found out within the next month when we play sides capable of getting promoted. Hope I'm wrong but I think we will be spending Christmas in the bottom 3, if not bottom


This is the worry. Wigan and Leeds away then Stoke and Sheffield United at home all rounded off by a nice trip to Middlesbrough. I can't see anyone's expectation for points from that lot being much higher than 2 or 3 which overall would see Reading struggling to be much above 20 points from half a season of games and therefore needing a minimum of around 30 points from the remaining 23 games to muster a chance of staying up.

This ain't going to be easy and will need players giving 110% week in and week out rather than the inconsistent dross that seems to make up most performances.

And as for the January window, what players are going to want to come to Reading? The loan market therefore might be the best bet there.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by URZZZZ » 12 Nov 2018 15:04

Sutekh
Reading4eva It also depends on who you are playing. If you have a run of Hull, Rotherham, Ipswich, Bolton and Millwall and mustered up 10 points for example, at the start of a season, for example, would you for example say your the best team in the league

Course you wouldn't. We are shit and will be found out within the next month when we play sides capable of getting promoted. Hope I'm wrong but I think we will be spending Christmas in the bottom 3, if not bottom


This is the worry. Wigan and Leeds away then Stoke and Sheffield United at home all rounded off by a nice trip to Middlesbrough. I can't see anyone's expectation for points from that lot being much higher than 2 or 3 which overall would see Reading struggling to be much above 20 points from half a season of games and therefore needing a minimum of around 30 points from the remaining 23 games to muster a chance of staying up.

This ain't going to be easy and will need players giving 110% week in and week out rather than the inconsistent dross that seems to make up most performances.

And as for the January window, what players are going to want to come to Reading? The loan market therefore might be the best bet there.


Do you mean the Wigan with 1 win in eight, Leeds with 3 in nine, Stoke with 1 on five, and Sheffield United with 1 in five as well? And then are you talking about the game on the 27th April or the one in December where we're at home to Middlesbrough? Yeah, we may as well just admit zero points and give up now :roll:

There are teams on much greater form than those, Norwich, Derby, Birmingham, Nottingham Forest etc, they're not as hard as people think

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by paultheroyal » 12 Nov 2018 15:08

Exactly, people are playing versus the name rather than the opponent.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by sandman » 12 Nov 2018 15:17

Good job for them that they are going to play the most charitable club in the league when it comes to helping teams out of a bad run of form.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Nov 2018 17:37

Snowball
2 world wars, 1 world cup I literally cannot believe that HNA is still seriously even considering using stats based on 5-6 games chunks.

We have sunk to new levels of desperation.

Back to reality: we are still shit.

HTH


The manager, and the team, worked, set targets, based on the blocks of games finishing at each International break.

The manager has expressed this when talking to the media. It is reasonable, and perfectly natural, for us to look at blocks in this way, especially as the manager // team appear to be doing it.

Six-game blocks are a COMMON way of viewing progress, also form

In terms of points per game, the three blocks show clear and unambigous improvement and that is FACT.

The poor first six result (2 points) is holding us at a relatively low point but since those games we have got better

Even those of us who can count don’t think Reading FC are suddenly a good team, but ten points in our last five home games is hardly sh!t

It's so mind numbingly obvious isn't it. And it's been commonly used on the forum
(And rest of world) for years with no complaints.

But hey, we didn't beat someone shit and it doesn't tell the right narrative so it's stupid to use it. :roll:


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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Nov 2018 17:40

Zip
Snowball
Zip
FFS. How do you think we played yesterday? The first half was in Clement’s own words “embarrassing”. Was that an improvement on our opening game of the season v Derby? How about our recent performances against Swansea, Birmingham or West Brom? How improved were we in those games? Our home form is improving. Our away form is getting worse. Stop trying to manipulate the stats. We have gained points on some teams but lost ground to even more.

What do you mean we only look like we are in trouble? We are in trouble and just outside the relegation zone on goal difference. We have scraped recent unconvincing wins v Millwall and Bristol City. We are improving offensively. We are getting worse defensively.

Let’s see where we are at Christmas shall we.


How “we played” first half? We were OUTPLAYED by a side that played very well indeed. And that means SQUAT.

We won the second half easily and finished with a draw. THAT is far more relevant.

Where is my proof? We were great first half versus WBA. What was the result?

As for gained on NINE teams, I looked at those teams in the bottom ten, duh!

What do I care about the relative points of Reading and Norwich?

Defender/Attack I don’t care. What matters is POINTS and we are getting more per game - FACT


What a load of nonsense to say what happened in the second half was far more relevant than in the first half. Both half’s had an equal bearing on the final outcome. Doh!

Comprehension fail alert.

He's saying the final outcome is what's important, you're the one saying the first half has special weight.

Incomprehensible that you argue looking at performance over 5/6 games is stupid and meaningless and then hold up 45 minutes as part of your reasoning.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Zip » 12 Nov 2018 17:47

Snowflake Royal
Zip
Snowball
How “we played” first half? We were OUTPLAYED by a side that played very well indeed. And that means SQUAT.

We won the second half easily and finished with a draw. THAT is far more relevant.

Where is my proof? We were great first half versus WBA. What was the result?

As for gained on NINE teams, I looked at those teams in the bottom ten, duh!

What do I care about the relative points of Reading and Norwich?

Defender/Attack I don’t care. What matters is POINTS and we are getting more per game - FACT


What a load of nonsense to say what happened in the second half was far more relevant than in the first half. Both half’s had an equal bearing on the final outcome. Doh!

Comprehension fail alert.

He's saying the final outcome is what's important, you're the one saying the first half has special weight.

Incomprehensible that you argue looking at performance over 5/6 games is stupid and meaningless and then hold up 45 minutes as part of your reasoning.



READ what he is saying. He is the one saying the second half carried more weight than the first half. As I have already stated both half’s were of equal importance. If you are going to criticise my comments then get your facts straight.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Nov 2018 17:58

Zip
Snowflake Royal
Zip
What a load of nonsense to say what happened in the second half was far more relevant than in the first half. Both half’s had an equal bearing on the final outcome. Doh!

Comprehension fail alert.

He's saying the final outcome is what's important, you're the one saying the first half has special weight.

Incomprehensible that you argue looking at performance over 5/6 games is stupid and meaningless and then hold up 45 minutes as part of your reasoning.



READ what he is saying. He is the one saying the second half carried more weight than the first half. As I have already stated both half’s were of equal importance. If you are going to criticise my comments then get your facts straight.

You raised the first half.
Snowy pointed out the second had more baring IN THAT it changed the result and it's the RESULT that is key.

You are still the one criticising saying how we're doing using 5/6 games whilst using 45 minutes as you're original example (alongside season ppg, which is hardly a measure of form, is it).

It's not hard Zip. Snowy has objectively shown that results are improving as a trend. One awful first half (thanks to very good Ipswich start and a possible tactical blunder) and disappointing result does not override a trend. Any trend line will have outlying results.

If we lose the next three games then obviously the facts change.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Zip » 12 Nov 2018 18:05

Snowflake Royal
Zip
Snowflake Royal Comprehension fail alert.

He's saying the final outcome is what's important, you're the one saying the first half has special weight.

Incomprehensible that you argue looking at performance over 5/6 games is stupid and meaningless and then hold up 45 minutes as part of your reasoning.



READ what he is saying. He is the one saying the second half carried more weight than the first half. As I have already stated both half’s were of equal importance. If you are going to criticise my comments then get your facts straight.

You raised the first half.
Snowy pointed out the second had more baring IN THAT it changed the result and it's the RESULT that is key.

You are still the one criticising saying how we're doing using 5/6 games whilst using 45 minutes as you're original example (alongside season ppg, which is hardly a measure of form, is it).

It's not hard Zip. Snowy has objectively shown that results are improving as a trend. One awful first half (thanks to very good Ipswich start and a possible tactical blunder) and disappointing result does not override a trend. Any trend line will have outlying results.

If we lose the next three games then obviously the facts change.


Dear God. The RESULT is brought about by what happened in both the first half AND the second half. How difficult is that to comprehend? You also cannot change the result before the end of the oxf*rd game. The result is the final score.The second half changed the live score. The result was the outcome of what happened in BOTH half’s,


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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Nov 2018 18:08

Zip
Snowflake Royal
Zip

READ what he is saying. He is the one saying the second half carried more weight than the first half. As I have already stated both half’s were of equal importance. If you are going to criticise my comments then get your facts straight.

You raised the first half.
Snowy pointed out the second had more baring IN THAT it changed the result and it's the RESULT that is key.

You are still the one criticising saying how we're doing using 5/6 games whilst using 45 minutes as you're original example (alongside season ppg, which is hardly a measure of form, is it).

It's not hard Zip. Snowy has objectively shown that results are improving as a trend. One awful first half (thanks to very good Ipswich start and a possible tactical blunder) and disappointing result does not override a trend. Any trend line will have outlying results.

If we lose the next three games then obviously the facts change.


Dear God. The RESULT is brought about by what happened in both the first half AND the second half. How difficult is that to comprehend? You also cannot change the result before the end of the oxf*rd game. The result is the final score.The second half changed the live score. The result was the outcome of what happened in BOTH half’s,

Yes. That's the oxf*rd point.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Hound » 12 Nov 2018 18:10

This is a terrible beef :cry:

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Zip » 12 Nov 2018 18:15

Snowflake Royal
Zip
Snowflake Royal You raised the first half.
Snowy pointed out the second had more baring IN THAT it changed the result and it's the RESULT that is key.

You are still the one criticising saying how we're doing using 5/6 games whilst using 45 minutes as you're original example (alongside season ppg, which is hardly a measure of form, is it).

It's not hard Zip. Snowy has objectively shown that results are improving as a trend. One awful first half (thanks to very good Ipswich start and a possible tactical blunder) and disappointing result does not override a trend. Any trend line will have outlying results.

If we lose the next three games then obviously the facts change.


Dear God. The RESULT is brought about by what happened in both the first half AND the second half. How difficult is that to comprehend? You also cannot change the result before the end of the oxf*rd game. The result is the final score.The second half changed the live score. The result was the outcome of what happened in BOTH half’s,

Yes. That's the oxf*rd point.


Well done. Glad you got there in the end because it’s precisely the oxf*rd point I’ve been making.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Nov 2018 18:17

Ok, glad we've reached an agreement that talking about the first half against Ipswich to argue against stats which include the Ipswich result is stupid.


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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by stealthpapes » 12 Nov 2018 18:18

Hound This is a terrible beef :cry:


The Wellington of the genre.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by leon » 12 Nov 2018 18:22

That was a painful page of material.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by NewCorkSeth » 12 Nov 2018 18:26

Hound This is a terrible beef :cry:

Oh you say that about every beef.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Zip » 12 Nov 2018 18:27

Snowflake Royal Ok, glad we've reached an agreement that talking about the first half against Ipswich to argue against stats which include the Ipswich result is stupid.


oxf*rd off Ian. You haven’t got a clue and don’t have the decency to admit you were wrong suggesting I had apportioned greater weight to the first half when I had done nothing of the sort. On the contrary Snowball was the one who was apportioning greater weight to the second half. Just oxf*rd off.
This is my last on the matter so I will leave you to have the last word as you won’t admit you were wrong.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Zip » 12 Nov 2018 18:38

leon That was a painful page of material.


Well quite.

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Hound » 12 Nov 2018 18:50

NewCorkSeth
Hound This is a terrible beef :cry:

Oh you say that about every beef.


I don’t think I do

But if I do, I really mean it this time

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Re: BFTG - Ipshit H

by Millsy » 12 Nov 2018 20:45

Snowflake Royal
Snowball
2 world wars, 1 world cup I literally cannot believe that HNA is still seriously even considering using stats based on 5-6 games chunks.

We have sunk to new levels of desperation.

Back to reality: we are still shit.

HTH


The manager, and the team, worked, set targets, based on the blocks of games finishing at each International break.

The manager has expressed this when talking to the media. It is reasonable, and perfectly natural, for us to look at blocks in this way, especially as the manager // team appear to be doing it.

Six-game blocks are a COMMON way of viewing progress, also form

In terms of points per game, the three blocks show clear and unambigous improvement and that is FACT.

The poor first six result (2 points) is holding us at a relatively low point but since those games we have got better

Even those of us who can count don’t think Reading FC are suddenly a good team, but ten points in our last five home games is hardly sh!t

It's so mind numbingly obvious isn't it. And it's been commonly used on the forum
(And rest of world) for years with no complaints.

But hey, we didn't beat someone shit and it doesn't tell the right narrative so it's stupid to use it. :roll:


In our last five "home games". There is no better lubricant for mental gymnastics than stat-wank :lol: (I'm quite proud of this quote I've just come up with!!)

Fully fledged nerd and seasoned scientist here so fully get it.

On top of that my bias is I like Clement as a person and woidl love him to succeed.

It's just that I haven't seen this set of game-chunk cherry-picking many times before on HNA and each time anything similar has rightly been shot down in an instant.

The narrative you mention is that Clement is ineffective in getting us out of this. That he is sadly shit. And what is that narrative based on? Did people write that narrative when he joined and then try to bend the facts to make it work? The only fact bending I see here is cherry picking types of game and chunks of games. The "narrative" has developed like all good narratives should - based on the facts of the story. And the facts are plain to see. When he joined we were shit. Honeymoon results kept us up but we still ended the season being shit or arguably shitter. In the transfer market we were shit. In preseason we won nothing- we were shit - shitter than any preseason in my recollection. The first part of the season we were shit. Even now, we are shit. Constant unrelenting shit so the narrative as you rightly say is that we are shit because the facts of the story are lo and behold... That we are shit.

HOWEVER... as I say I fully get what is being said and love it to be true. Our home games are picking up, our PPG is picking up. The trend is upwards. From total shit to slightly less shit with the correct stat-wank oiling the wheels of faith but yes it is still a slow improvement nevertheless. My hope is that with Eza coming back we will continue to climb out of this. I can see this happening and was one of the few (I think one of only two on here) guilty of defending Brenda in this way before he got sacked. On the other hand I think aid be more than relieved not to have to put too much faith in all this and we get rid of him and bring someone else in with a sense of urgency.

I'm merely pointing out that I find it amusing.

Still, it makes for great discussion so.. respect. :)

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