BFTG - Stokies

[RoyalBlue]

How far is your tongue in your cheek...........

Shrugs shoulders. What serious mistakes did he make?

Turning up?

And that comment says everything about the idiotic Gunter critics.

Sod all to support their criticism and even if they were to give examples it would probably be pretty easy to show them to be incorrect.

[Zip]

The usual scapegoating ^

Decent enough game from him today...but if you are ‘that way inclined’ probably not.

Exactly this. I wonder what level coaching expertise and/or experience of being coached properly many of them have. Far too often Gunter is doing his job properly but is let down by others failing to do theirs e.g. Swift and McCleary yesterday. Clement alluded to this after the game but waited until half-time to address it. Are he and his coaches incapable of communicating instructions during breaks in play?

Yep absolutely. We could see that our left flank was hugely exposed throughout the first half yet nothing was done about it until half time. Clement should have reacted as soon as it became clear that our midfielders needed to track back.

[Snowflake Royal]

The usual scapegoating ^

Decent enough game from him today...but if you are ‘that way inclined’ probably not.

Exactly this. I wonder what level coaching expertise and/or experience of being coached properly many of them have. Far too often Gunter is doing his job properly but is let down by others failing to do theirs e.g. Swift and McCleary yesterday. Clement alluded to this after the game but waited until half-time to address it. Are he and his coaches incapable of communicating instructions during breaks in play?

No, but what makes you think lazy shithouses like Swift can or will action them?

The game is played on the pitch. The only ones on it are the players.

[Snowflake Royal]

The usual scapegoating ^

Decent enough game from him today...but if you are ‘that way inclined’ probably not.

Exactly this. I wonder what level coaching expertise and/or experience of being coached properly many of them have. Far too often Gunter is doing his job properly but is let down by others failing to do theirs e.g. Swift and McCleary yesterday. Clement alluded to this after the game but waited until half-time to address it. Are he and his coaches incapable of communicating instructions during breaks in play?

Yep absolutely. We could see that our left flank was hugely exposed throughout the first half yet nothing was done about it until half time. Clement should have reacted as soon as it became clear that our midfielders needed to track back.

What do you expect him to do? The only midfielder on the bench was the truly awful Meyler. He's already promoted one Academy player into midfield.

He ended up giving up and putting on a powderpuff winger ffs.

He can't play the game for them.

Come on, what different could he have done except put on the slow and shit Meyler?

[Zip]

Exactly this. I wonder what level coaching expertise and/or experience of being coached properly many of them have. Far too often Gunter is doing his job properly but is let down by others failing to do theirs e.g. Swift and McCleary yesterday. Clement alluded to this after the game but waited until half-time to address it. Are he and his coaches incapable of communicating instructions during breaks in play?

Yep absolutely. We could see that our left flank was hugely exposed throughout the first half yet nothing was done about it until half time. Clement should have reacted as soon as it became clear that our midfielders needed to track back.

What do you expect him to do? The only midfielder on the bench was the truly awful Meyler. He's already promoted one Academy player into midfield.

He ended up giving up and putting on a powderpuff winger ffs.

He can't play the game for them.

Come on, what different could he have done except put on the slow and shit Meyler?

He can tell the players on the pitch to track the runner. He doesn’t need to bring someone on but make clear the players on the pitch need to be doing their share of the dirty work.

[Snowflake Royal]

Yep absolutely. We could see that our left flank was hugely exposed throughout the first half yet nothing was done about it until half time. Clement should have reacted as soon as it became clear that our midfielders needed to track back.

What do you expect him to do? The only midfielder on the bench was the truly awful Meyler. He's already promoted one Academy player into midfield.

He ended up giving up and putting on a powderpuff winger ffs.

He can't play the game for them.

Come on, what different could he have done except put on the slow and shit Meyler?

He can tell the players on the pitch to track the runner. He doesn’t need to bring someone on but make clear the players on the pitch need to be doing their share of the dirty work.

What on earth makes you think he doesn't make that clear before the game let alone during.

Swift started in the Chelsea Academy. He's had some of the best coaching available to English football. You think it's Clement's fault he's a lazy waster? You think Clement shouting instructions from the sideline is going to have any effect on the ponce? Clement spent half the game outside his technical area shouting instructions.

[Zip]

What do you expect him to do? The only midfielder on the bench was the truly awful Meyler. He's already promoted one Academy player into midfield.

He ended up giving up and putting on a powderpuff winger ffs.

He can't play the game for them.

Come on, what different could he have done except put on the slow and shit Meyler?

He can tell the players on the pitch to track the runner. He doesn’t need to bring someone on but make clear the players on the pitch need to be doing their share of the dirty work.

What on earth makes you think he doesn't make that clear before the game let alone during.

Swift started in the Chelsea Academy. He's had some of the best coaching available to English football. You think it's Clement's fault he's a lazy waster? You think Clement shouting instructions from the sideline is going to have any effect on the ponce? Clement spent half the game outside his technical area shouting instructions.

Then it’s simple. Swift should not be playing. Clement selected him. We have a huge squad. He could have given Clement a start.

[leon]

He can tell the players on the pitch to track the runner. He doesn’t need to bring someone on but make clear the players on the pitch need to be doing their share of the dirty work.

What on earth makes you think he doesn't make that clear before the game let alone during.

Swift started in the Chelsea Academy. He's had some of the best coaching available to English football. You think it's Clement's fault he's a lazy waster? You think Clement shouting instructions from the sideline is going to have any effect on the ponce? Clement spent half the game outside his technical area shouting instructions.

Then it’s simple. Swift should not be playing. Clement selected him. We have a huge squad. He could have given Clement a start.

Exactly. If he can’t get his team to execute basic instructions he’s failing at his job.

[Orion]

^ this

Basically a decent draw with our second string team versus (for all intents and purposes) a Premier team

Any normal person would send that the game yesterday was a joke. Tactically inept and lucky.

I wish we lost for the greater good.

[Victor Meldrew]

How far is your tongue in your cheek...........

Must have a really big cheek, i reckon. Gunts was fine today and then you critique his failures........he wasn't fine he was merely adequate and slows down any attacking impetus we ever generate and thats pretty rare. not sure we have many others options until players are off the ever expanding injury list but nobody should be satisfied with his performance - his has been indoctrinated by the Stam style and with now young and quick players coming into the team (thanks god), needs to go as soon as possible

I critiqued his failures going forward. Apart from being caught upfield once in the first half he was fine defensively. He is first and foremost a defender.

Who was nowhere near his man (ince) when he scored.

I wonder what Clement's instructions were.
Last Tuesday Leeds exposed our left flank so what did Stoke do right from the off?
Swift was wandering all over the place-there is now way that he was told to stay on the left.

Interestingly somebody pointed out on the radio in the Saints game that it is easy for a team to go hell for leather when they are losing (Man Utd 2 goals down) as, logically,they have nothing to lose.
A braver side does so before going behind-we are one of those sides IMHO-we did the same v Ipswich as we did yesterday by going 4-2-4 with two wingers and 2 central strikers.

Unfortunately we don't have Sidwell and Harper so we always seem to have to go with at least 3 in midfield.
It could be that Clement will see that we don't have the defensive players to keep many sides out so will go with how we finished the game and just hope that we score more than the opposition.
That is possibly the way that we might win games-draws and defeats will see us relegated.

BTW, Dellor said that Stoke should have had a free-kick in the lead up to our equaliser so the ref wasn't all bad.

We aren't half a weak side though-this wasn't the very physical Stoke of old and yet our playerswon so few of the 50/50 challenges and spent far too much time on the deck protesting rather than getting on with the game.

[windermereROYAL]

It`s difficult to remember a quieter away following than Stoke yesterday, only heard anything after they scored. quite ironic we scored our second in the middle of a Delilah,

[Ascotexgunner]

Think we escaped a tonking yesterday. Stoke could have been out of site by half time. Pleased McNulty scored but he just looked so isolated at times. Kept going and got a big reward though. I don't know what to think of Swift. You can see the talent and he does the hard bit, but the final ball and his decision making is awful. 3 points from 12 in the last four games and some toughies coming up. With Clements luck he may make it to Christmas.
I thought the ref gave both sides decisions, did alright. Don't know why people moan all the time about them, what sends us down won't be ref decisions, it will be poor management, poor buys, poor tactics, poor selections and underperforming players.
If Clement does stay I don't think we will go down, but it will be a close run thing. Ipswich are awful and Bolton have big problems (players not paid for over a month and now facing a big points deduction). In short we will have progressed absolutely zilch. Not good enough I'm afraid.

[sandman]

Think we escaped a tonking yesterday. Stoke could have been out of site by half time. Pleased McNulty scored but he just looked so isolated at times. Kept going and got a big reward though. I don't know what to think of Swift. You can see the talent and he does the hard bit, but the final ball and his decision making is awful. 3 points from 12 in the last four games and some toughies coming up. With Clements luck he may make it to Christmas.
I thought the ref gave both sides decisions, did alright. Don't know why people moan all the time about them, what sends us down won't be ref decisions, it will be poor management, poor buys, poor tactics, poor selections and underperforming players.
If Clement does stay I don't think we will go down, but it will be a close run thing. Ipswich are awful and Bolton have big problems (players not paid for over a month and now facing a big points deduction). In short we will have progressed absolutely zilch. Not good enough I'm afraid.

You really thought the ref had a good game? Can't take the rest of it seriously I'm afraid.

[windermereROYAL]

Think we escaped a tonking yesterday. Stoke could have been out of site by half time. Pleased McNulty scored but he just looked so isolated at times. Kept going and got a big reward though. I don't know what to think of Swift. You can see the talent and he does the hard bit, but the final ball and his decision making is awful. 3 points from 12 in the last four games and some toughies coming up. With Clements luck he may make it to Christmas.
I thought the ref gave both sides decisions, did alright. Don't know why people moan all the time about them, what sends us down won't be ref decisions, it will be poor management, poor buys, poor tactics, poor selections and underperforming players.
If Clement does stay I don't think we will go down, but it will be a close run thing. Ipswich are awful and Bolton have big problems (players not paid for over a month and now facing a big points deduction). In short we will have progressed absolutely zilch. Not good enough I'm afraid.

I remember 1 decent Jaakkola save and a straight forward save down to his right in the 1st half, not sure how you define out of sight, Rowett even said they had at least 8 great goal scoring chances, was I at the same game?

[Ascotexgunner]

Think we escaped a tonking yesterday. Stoke could have been out of site by half time. Pleased McNulty scored but he just looked so isolated at times. Kept going and got a big reward though. I don't know what to think of Swift. You can see the talent and he does the hard bit, but the final ball and his decision making is awful. 3 points from 12 in the last four games and some toughies coming up. With Clements luck he may make it to Christmas.
I thought the ref gave both sides decisions, did alright. Don't know why people moan all the time about them, what sends us down won't be ref decisions, it will be poor management, poor buys, poor tactics, poor selections and underperforming players.
If Clement does stay I don't think we will go down, but it will be a close run thing. Ipswich are awful and Bolton have big problems (players not paid for over a month and now facing a big points deduction). In short we will have progressed absolutely zilch. Not good enough I'm afraid.

You really thought the ref had a good game?

Well put it this way, we all know the championship officiating isn't the best but I don't subscribe to the view that some people hold that the refs are biased and give us nothing. Yeah it wasn't brilliant but it's the norm at this level. Until some form of VAR comes in (which is light years away at this level) we just have to accept it.

[Ascotexgunner]

Think we escaped a tonking yesterday. Stoke could have been out of site by half time. Pleased McNulty scored but he just looked so isolated at times. Kept going and got a big reward though. I don't know what to think of Swift. You can see the talent and he does the hard bit, but the final ball and his decision making is awful. 3 points from 12 in the last four games and some toughies coming up. With Clements luck he may make it to Christmas.
I thought the ref gave both sides decisions, did alright. Don't know why people moan all the time about them, what sends us down won't be ref decisions, it will be poor management, poor buys, poor tactics, poor selections and underperforming players.
If Clement does stay I don't think we will go down, but it will be a close run thing. Ipswich are awful and Bolton have big problems (players not paid for over a month and now facing a big points deduction). In short we will have progressed absolutely zilch. Not good enough I'm afraid.

I remember 1 decent Jaakkola save and a straight forward save down to his right in the 1st half, not sure how you define out of sight, Rowett even said they had at least 8 great goal scoring chances, was I at the same game?

A free header was missed, a rebound off Jakkola that was blazed over from six yards, McClean went through but fortunately the dirty tosser has the pace of a carthorse, the one straight at Jakkola was fortunately a miskick after we were opened up, and then just after we scored another free header was missed (though without looking again there did look like a judge on the attacker).

[sandman]

Think we escaped a tonking yesterday. Stoke could have been out of site by half time. Pleased McNulty scored but he just looked so isolated at times. Kept going and got a big reward though. I don't know what to think of Swift. You can see the talent and he does the hard bit, but the final ball and his decision making is awful. 3 points from 12 in the last four games and some toughies coming up. With Clements luck he may make it to Christmas.
I thought the ref gave both sides decisions, did alright. Don't know why people moan all the time about them, what sends us down won't be ref decisions, it will be poor management, poor buys, poor tactics, poor selections and underperforming players.
If Clement does stay I don't think we will go down, but it will be a close run thing. Ipswich are awful and Bolton have big problems (players not paid for over a month and now facing a big points deduction). In short we will have progressed absolutely zilch. Not good enough I'm afraid.

You really thought the ref had a good game?

Well put it this way, we all know the championship officiating isn't the best but I don't subscribe to the view that some people hold that the refs are biased and give us nothing. Yeah it wasn't brilliant but it's the norm at this level. Until some form of VAR comes in (which is light years away at this level) we just have to accept it.

Do we? After every game the manager of both clubs get to write a small comment about the referee. This is the same referee that Steve Clarke said shouldn't referee at this level again and that was three years ago.

What are the people we have in charge of the game doing about these guys? Who assesses them and how? Seems to me that they are former refs who aren't going to go against the old boys club.

Yes, it's a tough job but they need to improve.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

End of the day, whether you're Clement in or Clement out, you have to admit this team has more character and determination than under Jaap last season. The late goal today, the late goal vs Ipswich, the penalty miss vs Leeds, the grit against Bristol shows the team is starting to show some backbone. Don't know stats or anything but how many late goals did we score last year

That is a decent comment tbf.

Mentioned to a mate that we seem to have stopped going out with a whimper like we have the last couple of seasons. That's something i suppose

[Ascotexgunner]

You really thought the ref had a good game?

Well put it this way, we all know the championship officiating isn't the best but I don't subscribe to the view that some people hold that the refs are biased and give us nothing. Yeah it wasn't brilliant but it's the norm at this level. Until some form of VAR comes in (which is light years away at this level) we just have to accept it.

Do we? After every game the manager of both clubs get to write a small comment about the referee. This is the same referee that Steve Clarke said shouldn't referee at this level again and that was three years ago.

What are the people we have in charge of the game doing about these guys? Who assesses them and how? Seems to me that they are former refs who aren't going to go against the old boys club.

Yes, it's a tough job but they need to improve.

Yeah but sometimes the players don't help with their blatant cheating and diving. If VAR isn't available I would like to see a fourth (if he's not separating the dugouts) or even a fifth official being allowed to give input. I would agree that the linesman at this level are f*cking useless in most cases. They have the easier job as well.

[Zip]

Must have a really big cheek, i reckon. Gunts was fine today and then you critique his failures........he wasn't fine he was merely adequate and slows down any attacking impetus we ever generate and thats pretty rare. not sure we have many others options until players are off the ever expanding injury list but nobody should be satisfied with his performance - his has been indoctrinated by the Stam style and with now young and quick players coming into the team (thanks god), needs to go as soon as possible

I critiqued his failures going forward. Apart from being caught upfield once in the first half he was fine defensively. He is first and foremost a defender.

Who was nowhere near his man (ince) when he scored.

I wonder what Clement's instructions were.
Last Tuesday Leeds exposed our left flank so what did Stoke do right from the off?
Swift was wandering all over the place-there is now way that he was told to stay on the left.

Interestingly somebody pointed out on the radio in the Saints game that it is easy for a team to go hell for leather when they are losing (Man Utd 2 goals down) as, logically,they have nothing to lose.
A braver side does so before going behind-we are one of those sides IMHO-we did the same v Ipswich as we did yesterday by going 4-2-4 with two wingers and 2 central strikers.

Unfortunately we don't have Sidwell and Harper so we always seem to have to go with at least 3 in midfield.
It could be that Clement will see that we don't have the defensive players to keep many sides out so will go with how we finished the game and just hope that we score more than the opposition.
That is possibly the way that we might win games-draws and defeats will see us relegated.

BTW, Dellor said that Stoke should have had a free-kick in the lead up to our equaliser so the ref wasn't all bad.

We aren't half a weak side though-this wasn't the very physical Stoke of old and yet our playerswon so few of the 50/50 challenges and spent far too much time on the deck protesting rather than getting on with the game.

Agree with most of this and as leon says it was obvious before kick off our left flank was going to be weak. As you say Swift popped up all over the place so presumably had some kind of floating role but it didn’t work. Baldock definitely committed a foul with a shove allowing us to win the ball back and counter for the equaliser. So although the ref didn’t give us much he let us off with that one.

One of our biggest failings is an ability to counter attack quickly. On the few occasions that we do we look dangerous.