by Millsy » 04 Feb 2019 15:38
by John Smith » 04 Feb 2019 15:49
by URZZZZ » 04 Feb 2019 15:52
by Cape Town Royal » 04 Feb 2019 16:22
URZZZZ Very good post, especially about the scoring more vs conceding less point
The day Barcelona started their "tika-taka" football is the day football was less enjoyable. It was a pleasure to watch when it came off but too many teams now just sit behind the ball and it's a case of watching one team pass it between their defenders
Was thinking to myself actually how many times does anyone take a man on? I'm not necessarily talking about Reading here, no wingers ever seem to take on their fullback any more, it has to be passed round them now to get through
In my view, football has become too tactical rather than a spur of the moment game, and it's made it a lot less enjoyable
by sandman » 04 Feb 2019 18:54
2 world wars, 1 world cup This isn't another one of my nostalgic posts about the good old Southbank, the good old chant boys etc etc This is also nothing new, nothing that's not been said before but I suddenly felt a sense of nostalgia after the Villa game that I've never felt before.
What happened to the days...
...when Gilkesy would knock it past a player and run run run run Gilkesy past a player and whip in a cross?
...when Nogan and Archie would slip through the defence and score
...when Quinn would bang them in for fun... (then prove himself as a decent keeper too!)
...when Butler would get hold of every ball and score or lay it off
...when Long would work so tirelessly up front goals would happen around him, even if he didn't score much himself
...when Fozzie the greedy so and so would just take the ball , dribble past a whole team and score
...when Roberts would bang them in like a genius
...when Curo would hang around like a cheeky schoolkid and score for fun
...when Kitson and Doyle tore up the championship
...when Martin Williams would trip over his own shoelaces but still manage to score
...when Senior would score hat tricks
...when Morley would just get stuck in and somehow score a shedload of goals in a poor team
...when any rush forward by the Reading team would actually have us on the edge of our seats expecting a goal?
I haven't felt like we've had a decent chance of scoring for so so long. Any rush forward leaves me thinking "this is going to end in slow indecisive nonsense" The game against Villa gave me hope as we actually looked good, and Oliveira looked like he was there with a chance... but it was also saddening with his injury and our pussyfooting around the box with nobody willing to take a shot.
We have a team that has definitely improved under Gomes, but who still don't even look like they want to score.
It's all been said before I know, so it's nothing new, but after that game I realise I was in some sort of trance thinking "this is the way it must be" as I just got a load of flashbacks of what it was like to support Reading back in the days where we thought football meant trying to score more than the opposition, rather than trying to concede less.
Nostalgic rant over.
by Zip » 04 Feb 2019 19:37
by Esteban » 04 Feb 2019 22:06
by tmesis » 04 Feb 2019 23:42
URZZZZ Was thinking to myself actually how many times does anyone take a man on? I'm not necessarily talking about Reading here, no wingers ever seem to take on their fullback any more, it has to be passed round them now to get through
Esteban Football should bring in a bonus point for goals scored, similar to Rugby. It would probably ruin the game in the long run, but it would be fun for a while at least.
by Franchise FC » 05 Feb 2019 07:22
by The Enfield Royal71 » 05 Feb 2019 07:32
by Millsy » 05 Feb 2019 09:37
sandman
Normally I think you are an absolute twat,
by Notts Royal » 05 Feb 2019 12:10
by Victor Meldrew » 05 Feb 2019 12:27
Notts Royal I agree to all of this. To me this is largely down to putting wingers on the wrong wing...and it’s not just at Reading.
What’s this phenomenon of playing right footed wingers on the left, and vice versa all about?
Barrow & Harriott are very left-footed. So we play them on the right ... stupid!
McCleary is a very right-footed players. So we play him on the left...stupid!
We aren’t even helping them get past their player purely down to tactics.
This seemed to start around the era Arjen Robben broke through...the big difference was when he cut inside he could actually score.
Harriott actually has a very good cross. So why not play him on the left. Then he could beat his man & get a cross in.
Would Convey & little been as effective playing on the opposite sides? 100% no
by Sebastian the Red » 05 Feb 2019 12:30
John Smith Would a brief stint in League One be the answer?
by Denver Royal » 05 Feb 2019 12:42
Victor MeldrewNotts Royal I agree to all of this. To me this is largely down to putting wingers on the wrong wing...and it’s not just at Reading.
What’s this phenomenon of playing right footed wingers on the left, and vice versa all about?
Barrow & Harriott are very left-footed. So we play them on the right ... stupid!
McCleary is a very right-footed players. So we play him on the left...stupid!
We aren’t even helping them get past their player purely down to tactics.
This seemed to start around the era Arjen Robben broke through...the big difference was when he cut inside he could actually score.
Harriott actually has a very good cross. So why not play him on the left. Then he could beat his man & get a cross in.
Would Convey & little been as effective playing on the opposite sides? 100% no
Agree wholeheartedly.
The earliest I can remember is Preki at Everton and , like Robben, he scored a lot of goals.
I have always felt that one of the roles of the winger is to go outside the full-back and cross the ball so that the keeper goes into no-man's land to try and catch (or nowadays punch or palm away) the ball.
I get it that an inswinging cross can cause problems for keepers with defenders obstructing their view but surely playing that way should be the surprise exception rather than the rule.
The other aspect of playing on the correct side and going outside the defender is that there is more room to cross whereas when you come inside it then becomes more crowded with so many midfielders occupying less space (remember England's problems with Rooney and Scholes coming inside from the left and running into trouble?).
Left-footed Messi plays on the right but he is so good that he can go left, right or even straight through a defender but there aren't too many Messis out there.
Thanks to the OP for bringing back some good memories at a time when our football is generally so dull.
by Green » 05 Feb 2019 13:57
Sebastian the RedJohn Smith Would a brief stint in League One be the answer?
I'd actually come back for the first time in 3 or 4 years if we're relegated
by stealthpapes » 05 Feb 2019 14:41
The earliest I can remember is Preki at Everton and , like Robben, he scored a lot of goals.
To me this is largely down to putting wingers on the wrong wing...and it’s not just at Reading.
What’s this phenomenon of playing right footed wingers on the left, and vice versa all about?
The other aspect of playing on the correct side and going outside the defender is that there is more room to cross whereas when you come inside it then becomes more crowded with so many midfielders occupying less space (remember England's problems with Rooney and Scholes coming inside from the left and running into trouble?).
Would Convey & little been as effective playing on the opposite sides? 100% no
by stealthpapes » 05 Feb 2019 14:43
GreenSebastian the RedJohn Smith Would a brief stint in League One be the answer?
I'd actually come back for the first time in 3 or 4 years if we're relegated
I think I could probably stretch to a micropub tour of the Medway towns before Gillingham away.
by Victor Meldrew » 05 Feb 2019 17:15
stealthpapes There is so much to digest here, its literally like the last twenty years of football didn't happen, so we'll start with the easiest.The earliest I can remember is Preki at Everton and , like Robben, he scored a lot of goals.
4, 4 goals in 46 games.
He was an indoor footballer before Everton and scored well over 1 a game in a 5 a side league, so, yeah, maybe.To me this is largely down to putting wingers on the wrong wing...and it’s not just at Reading.
What’s this phenomenon of playing right footed wingers on the left, and vice versa all about?
Its an issue of space, and pace. Cut inside, and the game opens up. Also, as full backs became more athletic, and more attacking, the width could be supplied from a full back. Hence, the tendency for the winger to become slightly slower, more two footed, more flexible but ultimately narrower.The other aspect of playing on the correct side and going outside the defender is that there is more room to cross whereas when you come inside it then becomes more crowded with so many midfielders occupying less space (remember England's problems with Rooney and Scholes coming inside from the left and running into trouble?).
This is not necessarily true in the general case - it depends on what the other players in the squad are doing and also what the defence are doing.
And the specific England case mentioned is somewhat misguided or misremembered. Scholes' last cap for England was 2004, at the Euros that year. In that tournament he typically played on the left of a narrow midfield diamond, so not really a centre mid, where he was good, nor really in his United role, where he scored goals. Square peg, round hole, jog on. Rooney's first England game was 2003, so him and Scholes would have rarely played in the same squad. In any case, Rooney tended to play upfront with some freedom to roam.
The key tactical issue of that era of England was two-fold folly of playing Lampard and Gerrard without a plan that suited either and trying every single left footed player - plus a fair few right footed ones - in that left midfield slot without any idea of what they would do when there. I can remember Joe Cole in that position - of course he's going to tuck inside. I can remember Alan Thompson there in a friendly against Sweden. He might as well have been Paul Brooker, FFS. You've also got, in this situation, the mismatch of your full backs. Ashley Cole was very adventurous, while Neville less so. Danny Mills (2002) even less so again. So the left midfield would have perhaps been better defensively minded. That said, with the rest of the midfield, they would have ended up covering two positions - one from the middle and also the left.Would Convey & little been as effective playing on the opposite sides? 100% no
Little's probably a maybe there, tbf, but that side was set up as a distinct 4-4-2, with width supplied by the wingers and two grinding ball-winning centre mids.
So, tldr, wingers of either stripe, inside, outside, hotel and/or motel. Fine, there is no inherent problem, so long as the side is set up to play with them and play to their strengths.
I would suggest the problem isn't the position or the tactic, but a lack of continuity in our management and recruitment policy meaning we're playing too many players slightly out of position and slightly in the wrong attacking role.
by Forbury Lion » 05 Feb 2019 17:39
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