England’s World Cup Finals 2018

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Zammo
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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Zammo » 19 Jun 2018 11:27

You can fold the World Cup after last night's last minute winner. Arms and limbs everywhere. Fantastic.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Old Man Andrews » 19 Jun 2018 11:34

Scutterbucketz
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Scutterbucketz Get carried away in every good place you find yourself in. Let your mind soar and your heart race. England will win this World Cup. And until they don’t in 10 days time I’m gonna enjoy it. I love supporting England. Right up until they kick a ball.

And fair play to those lads losing their minds in town. I had a few nights like that myself many many years ago.


Reminded me of Euro 96 when about 10 of us closed Gun Street for 10 mins drunkenly dancing in the street after the Spain game.


Yes, I nearly got arrested for stealing a cardboard Alan Shearer from behind the counter at McDonalds and then parading around the town. Made the EPo though 8)
Just saw a video of the police crackdown on Friar Street last night. Seemed a bit OTT.


Someone at work was there. People were quite merry and having fun until the police presence ramped up.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sanguine » 19 Jun 2018 11:46

genome
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genome It's been used very well at times (Sweden, Peru etc) and other refs have got it very wrong.

Either way, it's not fit for purpose yet and certainly shouldn't be being used at a World Cup.


There have been incidents reviewed and corrected with VAR that otherwise would not have been. Why is that not good?


It's also missed things. It's the most prestigious competition in the world, it shouldn't be being trialled.


But those things would have been missed without VAR too.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sanguine » 19 Jun 2018 11:49

It's generally pretty difficult to know when you see photos of England fans that you are looking at player's wives and families. Not the case with Harry Maguire's though. :) :shock:



*his brother Laurence is also a footballer, centre-back for Chesterfield.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by genome » 19 Jun 2018 12:03

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There have been incidents reviewed and corrected with VAR that otherwise would not have been. Why is that not good?


It's also missed things. It's the most prestigious competition in the world, it shouldn't be being trialled.


But those things would have been missed without VAR too.


Not particularly, there have been some decisions being referred that are highly debatable - the French penalty against Australia, for example. That overturn changed the outcome of the game.

Referees should be confident enough to use the technology correctly as close to 100% of the time as possible. That comes with use, ironing out the issues. At the moment it seems to be either correct, incorrect or debatable. It's not ready for such a competition.


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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sanguine » 19 Jun 2018 12:07

genome
Not particularly, there have been some decisions being referred that are highly debatable - the French penalty against Australia, for example. That overturn changed the outcome of the game.

Referees should be confident enough to use the technology correctly as close to 100% of the time as possible. That comes with use, ironing out the issues. At the moment it seems to be either correct, incorrect or debatable. It's not ready for such a competition.


Definite trip + no evidence on replays that Ridson got the ball first = penalty. Another tick for VAR.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by genome » 19 Jun 2018 12:11

Sanguine
genome
Not particularly, there have been some decisions being referred that are highly debatable - the French penalty against Australia, for example. That overturn changed the outcome of the game.

Referees should be confident enough to use the technology correctly as close to 100% of the time as possible. That comes with use, ironing out the issues. At the moment it seems to be either correct, incorrect or debatable. It's not ready for such a competition.


Definite trip + no evidence on replays that Ridson got the ball first = penalty. Another tick for VAR.


And many would debate that with you.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sanguine » 19 Jun 2018 12:13

genome
And many would debate that with you.


Which would be foolish, given that the replays showed a definite trip (firm contact with Greizemann's back leg) and no angle showed Ridson getting a touch on the ball.

The problem with VAR at this World Cup has been it not being used when it should have been, not in the use of it when it has.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Old Man Andrews » 19 Jun 2018 12:15

Your debate is exactly why VAR shouldn't be used in penalty situations.


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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by genome » 19 Jun 2018 12:19

Sanguine The problem with VAR at this World Cup has been it not being used when it should have been, not in the use of it when it has.


Which leads me to believe the refs haven't been trained properly.

If you're going to bring the technology in for a World Cup then everyone needs to know what they are doing. It's not particularly fair that some teams benefit from it and some don't - the whole point of VAR is that it eliminates that variable. At the moment we seem to still have the same problem. Inadequate preparation = not ready.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sanguine » 19 Jun 2018 12:21

Old Man Andrews Your debate is exactly why VAR shouldn't be used in penalty situations.


Because some people are stupid?

For an example of why it shouldn't be used, it's Lovren's 'foul' in the Spurs (?) game last season.
There's nothing to debate on the France penalty.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Old Man Andrews » 19 Jun 2018 12:25

Sanguine
Old Man Andrews Your debate is exactly why VAR shouldn't be used in penalty situations.


Because some people are stupid?

For an example of why it shouldn't be used, it's Lovren's 'foul' in the Spurs (?) game last season.
There's nothing to debate on the France penalty.


You cannot be "stupid" for seeing something differently to someone else. The France penalty was very debatable for me, I am still not sure on it. The point is a lot of penalty decisions are not an exact science and open to interpritation of the officials. What if the exact same thing happens in another game and the VAR officials just happen to be more lenient/willing to give the benefit of the doubt than the ones involved in the France v Aussie game?

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Stranded » 19 Jun 2018 12:25

Sanguine
The problem with VAR at this World Cup has been it not being used when it should have been, not in the use of it when it has.


The problem with VAR (which overall has been used well in this WC) is that it all it does is move the potential for error from the ref on the pitch to the ref in Moscow. Nobody watching that game last night could argue that England should have at least one penalty last night, ok the ref on the pitch may not have seen it but for another ref to be able to see it in real time and replay and not suggest that the on field ref at least take a look is a very strange call.


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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by John Madejski's Wallet » 19 Jun 2018 12:27

Sanguine
John Madejski's Wallet Still not convinced by VAR or that it will ever "be used properly"

So far we've 'gained' 2-3 pens that were slight enough that had they not been given the teams would have been miffed but not outraged (i.e. they weren't outrageous howlers from the ref not to give them)

.....and we've had at least 3 nailed-on, blatant pens not given

So what are we getting out of it?



We've apparently gained the ability to pretend that Sweden's penalty against Korea, given by VAR, wasn't a definite foul that the referee missed.

But i don't think it has really stopped the massive howlers (hands up, not seen the sweden one). Two of the ones i've seen were ones that in real time no-one (inc. the ref) thought was a pen and that you be miffed, rather than outraged, at not getting.

With no VAR, the France one would have been discussed as "close", "probably a pen", "slight contact with the ball", "hard to see", "you can't blame the ref for not seeing that etc."........ But the the absolutely unarguable pens have not been given

I just don't think we've gained much. Especially as everything looks worse in super slow mo from 10 angles

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by genome » 19 Jun 2018 12:32

Yeah, that's my point. VAR is meant to stop the officials from missing stuff so teams aren't hard done by, it's still happening except now we've got annoying breaks in play to go with it.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by John Madejski's Wallet » 19 Jun 2018 12:36

I do wonder if there will be more players going down under any contact as they value their chances on a referral. i.e. any contact will look worse in slow mo. But that shouldn't mean its a foul imo

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Greatwesternline » 19 Jun 2018 12:43

What happens if in the video of Kane being rugby tackled you can see and England player fouling a Tunisian player.

Which foul comes first?

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Stranded » 19 Jun 2018 12:48

genome Yeah, that's my point. VAR is meant to stop the officials from missing stuff so teams aren't hard done by, it's still happening except now we've got annoying breaks in play to go with it.


Have we had an "annoying break" yet where a decision has not been correct after it? Not seen every game, so may have missed one.

We've definitely had decisions not given/reviewed that should have been for sure.

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by BR0B0T » 19 Jun 2018 12:53

Greatwesternline What happens if in the video of Kane being rugby tackled you can see and England player fouling a Tunisian player.

Which foul comes first?


err the one that happened first...is this a trick question?

or are you saying they happened at exactly the same time

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Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by BR0B0T » 19 Jun 2018 12:57

Apparently, Stones pushed his defender just before Harry Kane was bundled

Guess it's something like that you are referring to

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