England’s World Cup Finals 2018

329 posts
User avatar
BR0B0T
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 15325
Joined: 08 Nov 2016 23:25

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by BR0B0T » 12 Jun 2018 19:42

tmesis
stealthpapes
Sanguine
I'm simply suggesting that for many penalty takers (Eden Hazard a good example actually) their technique is to send the keeper the wrong way. I can't find it anywhere, but I'd love to see Hazard's penalty map. Iirc his record is something like 1 or 2 misses from 25 penalties. I'd wager more than 50% are in 'saveable areas'.


Hazard's style is to, typically, place it along the floor, with the keeper going the other way. IIRC, the analysis of which way shows that there is no pattern, its basically random.

IF he has a technique which means his is able to send keepers the wrong way consistently (or he can tell which way the keeper will dive, and puts it the other side), then it's not random.

If it was random then the keeper would go the right way as often as the wrong way.


random as in the stats would show a random distribution based upon the keeper guessing which way

User avatar
genome
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 25180
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 13:29
Location: Universe

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by genome » 13 Jun 2018 09:16

Truth

@KGower83
16h

Every England Fan..(including me)

2 Years ago- 'oxf*rd this SHIT'

1 Year ago- 'We'll qualify & still do shit'

6 Months ago- 'oxf*rd friendlies'

1 Month Ago- 'Probably watch it'

1 Week Ago- 'hmm.. we look quite good'

2 Days to go- Buzzing for it, We're gonna win it!!! #ENG

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18386
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sutekh » 13 Jun 2018 09:28

genome Truth

@KGower83
16h

Every England Fan..(including me)

2 Years ago- 'oxf*rd this SHIT'

1 Year ago- 'We'll qualify & still do shit'

6 Months ago- 'oxf*rd friendlies'

1 Month Ago- 'Probably watch it'

1 Week Ago- 'hmm.. we look quite good'

2 Days to go- Buzzing for it, We're gonna win it!!! #ENG


Exactly this. Believe for a while, a bit of luck here and there and who knows what might happen.

Whether you're a fan of Southgate or not he has things organised as well as can be expected, he's generally gone for players in form and while I think he's not helped himself by not picking Shelvey, or someone of that nature, generally the squad is pretty decent. He's also got the media buying in through treating them with respect and not trying to shut themselves away from everyone. He also strikes me as calm and relaxed about things and leads quietly without overreaction. Certainly a Steve Coppell type of management and that, as we know, can be very effective.

User avatar
stealthpapes
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7531
Joined: 05 Jun 2013 13:25
Location: proverbs 26:11

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by stealthpapes » 13 Jun 2018 11:43

BR0B0T
tmesis
stealthpapes
Hazard's style is to, typically, place it along the floor, with the keeper going the other way. IIRC, the analysis of which way shows that there is no pattern, its basically random.

IF he has a technique which means his is able to send keepers the wrong way consistently (or he can tell which way the keeper will dive, and puts it the other side), then it's not random.

If it was random then the keeper would go the right way as often as the wrong way.


random as in the stats would show a random distribution based upon the keeper guessing which way


yup.

i.e. unpredictable.

User avatar
bcubed
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11440
Joined: 30 Oct 2004 18:16
Location: Would do better with a stick of rhubarb

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by bcubed » 13 Jun 2018 13:07

John Madejski's Wallet If its not a training/ball skill thing, then we all just have to agree that England is full of mentally feeble footballers.

I still stand by the Portugal pens that knocked us out. Unseaveable


Indeed but not just footballers. Rugby players and cricketers are also mentally fragile. Hence the feeble results when it matters and lack of World Cup wins

Not sure why but it's a real problem


User avatar
tmesis
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2780
Joined: 16 Aug 2013 20:26

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by tmesis » 13 Jun 2018 17:44

stealthpapes
BR0B0T
tmesis IF he has a technique which means his is able to send keepers the wrong way consistently (or he can tell which way the keeper will dive, and puts it the other side), then it's not random.

If it was random then the keeper would go the right way as often as the wrong way.


random as in the stats would show a random distribution based upon the keeper guessing which way


yup.

i.e. unpredictable.

which is why you look at where saves were made, as in what part of the goal, not just right or left.

The nearer the keeper the ball is placed, the more chance there is of a save being made. A shot to either side, even if it's right towards the post, will also have more chance of being saved, as that's the area a keeper can reach easiest when diving. It's actually harder to save a shot hit hard and low into the corner, as it's harder for the keeper to dive across and down in time to get there.

Hit it towards the top corners, and it's more or less unsaveable.

Do a Gareth Southgate type penalty, and virtually every keeper who guesses the right way will save it.


If it really was random, then are you seriously suggesting that players who are good at penalties are just lucky?

User avatar
BR0B0T
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 15325
Joined: 08 Nov 2016 23:25

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by BR0B0T » 13 Jun 2018 17:58

tmesis
stealthpapes
BR0B0T
random as in the stats would show a random distribution based upon the keeper guessing which way


yup.

i.e. unpredictable.

which is why you look at where saves were made, as in what part of the goal, not just right or left.

The nearer the keeper the ball is placed, the more chance there is of a save being made. A shot to either side, even if it's right towards the post, will also have more chance of being saved, as that's the area a keeper can reach easiest when diving. It's actually harder to save a shot hit hard and low into the corner, as it's harder for the keeper to dive across and down in time to get there.

Hit it towards the top corners, and it's more or less unsaveable.

Do a Gareth Southgate type penalty, and virtually every keeper who guesses the right way will save it.


If it really was random, then are you seriously suggesting that players who are good at penalties are just lucky?


relax you're talking about two different points...

Without bothering to re-read Papes' post I think it specifically refers to Hazard's style of seeing where the keeper goes and placing to opposite side. Placement doesn't matter in these cases as (for example) keeper has guessed left, Hazard has reacted and gone right. Randomness is the keeper guessing left or right

You're talking about pens in general and the points you're making seem pretty sensible

User avatar
BR0B0T
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 15325
Joined: 08 Nov 2016 23:25

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by BR0B0T » 13 Jun 2018 17:59

can I also add that I haven't bothered to re-read your previous posts either but I'm not gonna let that stop me from forming opinions and then writing about it

User avatar
stealthpapes
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7531
Joined: 05 Jun 2013 13:25
Location: proverbs 26:11

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by stealthpapes » 13 Jun 2018 18:08

tmesis
stealthpapes
BR0B0T
random as in the stats would show a random distribution based upon the keeper guessing which way


yup.

i.e. unpredictable.

which is why you look at where saves were made, as in what part of the goal, not just right or left.

The nearer the keeper the ball is placed, the more chance there is of a save being made. A shot to either side, even if it's right towards the post, will also have more chance of being saved, as that's the area a keeper can reach easiest when diving. It's actually harder to save a shot hit hard and low into the corner, as it's harder for the keeper to dive across and down in time to get there.

Hit it towards the top corners, and it's more or less unsaveable.

Do a Gareth Southgate type penalty, and virtually every keeper who guesses the right way will save it.


If it really was random, then are you seriously suggesting that players who are good at penalties are just lucky?


I'm saying - pretty much stating - the exact opposite, and I'm not sure what's so controversial about it.


User avatar
Silver Fox
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 25702
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 10:02
Location: From the Andes to the indies in my undies

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Silver Fox » 14 Jun 2018 14:06

Don't know if this one's been mentioned yet

2010 - Pep Guardiola is Barcelona manager, Spain win World Cup
2014 - Pep Guardiola is Bayern manager, Germany win World Cup
2018 - Pep Guardiola is Man City manager.....

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18386
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sutekh » 14 Jun 2018 14:28

And in August this will be

2010 - Pep Guardiola is Barcelona manager, Spain win World Cup
2014 - Pep Guardiola is Bayern manager, Germany win World Cup
2018 - Pep Guardiola is Man City manager, Brazil win World Cup

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18386
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sutekh » 15 Jun 2018 20:33

How players are spending their free time without getting into trouble. Can’t help but miss Gazza at tournaments though.

Https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/foot ... m-trouble/

User avatar
Pepe the Horseman
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 17825
Joined: 23 Jun 2011 10:24
Location: Putting right what once went wrong

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Pepe the Horseman » 16 Jun 2018 09:04

genome Truth

@KGower83
16h

Every England Fan..(including me)

2 Years ago- 'oxf*rd this SHIT'

1 Year ago- 'We'll qualify & still do shit'

6 Months ago- 'oxf*rd friendlies'

1 Month Ago- 'Probably watch it'

1 Week Ago- 'hmm.. we look quite good'

2 Days to go- Buzzing for it, We're gonna win it!!! #ENG

"There are no expectations this year so we'll probably win it!"


User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18386
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sutekh » 16 Jun 2018 12:02

Just looking back how England have generally struggled in every World Cup Finals group since 1982 bar 2006.

1982 - that was the one time they managed to win all 3 games including a comfortable pointitude v France
1986 - horrendous pigs ear made of it all but saved in the final game by a stuffing of Poland
1990 - all four teams in the group (England, Netherlands, Ireland, Egypt) tried their best to avoid winning at all costs but luckily England couldn’t even get that right
1998 - a bit better but not before contriving to be beaten by Romania to set up a do or die last game
2002 - quite a hard group for England. The standard failure to beat Sweden was followed up with the non-standard win over Argentina however the failure to beat Nigeria dumped them into second place and the harder side of the knockout element
2006 - got it right. Breezed the group, though it was a fairly weak one, with 7 points even got themselves into the easier half of the draw
2010 - a complete and utter shambles of getting through a group with the US, Slovenia and Algeria. Only managed 1 win and finished 2nd to qualify for a beating from the Germans
2014 - a tricky group but really dreary fearful performances left them bottom

By the way, anyone flying flags on their cars and houses like 4, 8, 12 years ago? Barely anything to be seen anywhere this time :lol:

User avatar
leon
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 29043
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:18
Location: Hips, Lips, Tits, Power

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by leon » 16 Jun 2018 12:40

Sutekh Just looking back how England have generally struggled in every World Cup Finals group since 1982 bar 2006.

1982 - that was the one time they managed to win all 3 games including a comfortable pointitude v France
1986 - horrendous pigs ear made of it all but saved in the final game by a stuffing of Poland
1990 - all four teams in the group (England, Netherlands, Ireland, Egypt) tried their best to avoid winning at all costs but luckily England couldn’t even get that right
1998 - a bit better but not before contriving to be beaten by Romania to set up a do or die last game
2002 - quite a hard group for England. The standard failure to beat Sweden was followed up with the non-standard win over Argentina however the failure to beat Nigeria dumped them into second place and the harder side of the knockout element
2006 - got it right. Breezed the group, though it was a fairly weak one, with 7 points even got themselves into the easier half of the draw
2010 - a complete and utter shambles of getting through a group with the US, Slovenia and Algeria. Only managed 1 win and finished 2nd to qualify for a beating from the Germans
2014 - a tricky group but really dreary fearful performances left them bottom

By the way, anyone flying flags on their cars and houses like 4, 8, 12 years ago? Barely anything to be seen anywhere this time :lol:


Racism is so passé these days.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39401
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Snowflake Royal » 16 Jun 2018 16:32

I'm actually quite positive about England right now. They seem relaxed and happy, not under pressure. There's a lot of potential for the future. Just got to get the balance of the first XI right and it could be a promising World Cup. Obviously we're not in with any genuine shout of making the final, let alone winning it. But we could get some morale boosting performances and make it to the Quarters.

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18386
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by Sutekh » 18 Jun 2018 19:03

And the new Jimmy Greaves saved the day!

Despite the bright opening the way the game all drifted off into 70 minutes or so of dull, tedious and uninventive play with no real creativity is really disheartening but l guess it’s all we can expect given the pool of talent available at the moment.

At least the better team won despite the poor refereeing and Tunisian time wasting so onward to Panama and no doubt a very similar sort of game

Least a win there should guarantee a last 16 place and hopefully a chance to then maybe play to get into the better side of the knockout rounds.

windermereROYAL
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7998
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 11:18

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by windermereROYAL » 18 Jun 2018 21:59

Watched the first game at home. but will probably do pubs for the remaining games. I understand they have a large outdoor screen down Station hill. free entry up to 90 minutes before kick off.most of these places are likely to be mega busy once the knock out stages start.
The walkabout can go and do one. full of idiots and impossible to get a beer.

User avatar
bobby1413
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6986
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 10:55
Location: Reading

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by bobby1413 » 18 Jun 2018 22:07

windermereROYAL Watched the first game at home. but will probably do pubs for the remaining games. I understand they have a large outdoor screen down Station hill. free entry up to 90 minutes before kick off.most of these places are likely to be mega busy once the knock out stages start.
The walkabout can go and do one. full of idiots and impossible to get a beer.


Seen the videos of the station hill area and it looked really decent and good atmosphere

Friar street also packed after the game with the yoofs singing about the place.

Football is coming home

windermereROYAL
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7998
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 11:18

Re: England’s World Cup Finals 2018

by windermereROYAL » 18 Jun 2018 22:26

bobby1413
windermereROYAL Watched the first game at home. but will probably do pubs for the remaining games. I understand they have a large outdoor screen down Station hill. free entry up to 90 minutes before kick off.most of these places are likely to be mega busy once the knock out stages start.
The walkabout can go and do one. full of idiots and impossible to get a beer.


Seen the videos of the station hill area and it looked really decent and good atmosphere

Friar street also packed after the game with the yoofs singing about the place.

Football is coming home


Christ what will happen if we win it?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1008805107369115648
Last edited by windermereROYAL on 18 Jun 2018 22:45, edited 1 time in total.

329 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 77 guests

It is currently 28 Mar 2024 19:35