BFTG - Forest away

TadleyDave
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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by TadleyDave » 12 Aug 2018 19:38

Bolton is must win game (I know,sounds bloody stupid) but the two games after that are both away @ Blackburn & Aston Villa so we could potentially be bottom after 5 games with zero points.

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Pandoras Box » 13 Aug 2018 00:10

The Royal Forester wrote:
Pandoras Box wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:People need to get a grip on reality.

Can we not give the team and these players at least five or six games to establish some form before we start writing them off?


As seems to be the norm in today’s world of debate, if someone disagrees with someone’s opinion, their alternative view is manipulated into a negative and anti whatever stance.
No one is writing off any players and no one has said that. Fact.
Bod may have scored a goal in two matches, but there were chances yesterday that he didn’t connect with that a natural poacher type striker may have. Fact

He worked hard and created a couple of chances off his own back but he’s never going to set the world alight, that’s all.
To falsely claim that a valid opinion of someone who witnessed the game yesterday as writing them off is rather unfair.
No one is looking for him to be benched or got rid of and I also don’t believe Baldock or McNulty got the opportunity to show their skills through the service that was offered.
That doesn’t immediately mean we need new strikers and to put everyone on the transfer list.

You say "may have". That also means "may not have", so you are in effect saying a natural poacher type striker may have missed the same chances that Bod missed. THAT is a fact.


Ha ha well done.
Originally I had put, ‘a natural poacher striker would have scored’ but I knew someone would say ‘ you couldn’t prove that’ , so the may have was an intentional edit m’lud.

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BR0B0T
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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by BR0B0T » 13 Aug 2018 00:38

+1 about needing a striker...our top goalscorer only has one this season!

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Top Flight » 13 Aug 2018 05:25

I was at the Forest game and I don't believe the problem is in the striking department.

We played well at Forest. Things are definitely improving and a good result is now only around the corner. These last two games against Derby and Forest are the best we've played since Clement became the manager. Things are definitely looking up.

The players only now need to learn to be more effective in terms of making chances and they need to be more aggressive and ruthless at the back. They need to cut out the errors.

I think some of them still have Stam's ideas and ways in their heads and they need to try and forget everything Stam taught them and learn the new Reading way under Paul Clement. At times on Saturday we saw defenders dallying on the ball, looking to play out and being pressured into mistakes. Whilst that fortunately didn't result in an opposition goal this time around, a more effective Coppell side would have pinged those balls into wide areas for the likes of a Doyler or a Long to chase. Now we have runners in Baldock and Bodvarsson and can play balls into wide areas when under defensive pressure and needing to clear lines knowing that Baldock and Bod can run hard and give us a good chance of retaining possession.

We need to stop being afraid to lose possession and get up the pitch faster. We need to be a bit more gung ho and force the issue a bit more.

We need to get forward quickly down the wings and get quality balls into the box. If we put more balls into the box then I'm sure Bodvarsson would get on the end of one of them and find the net. Bodvarsson did well on Saturday. His understanding with Baldock will come. We just need to be patient. Hopefully Clement will continue to coach them well and the moves will come.

We were definitely the better side on Saturday.

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Snowball » 13 Aug 2018 08:56

Top Flight wrote:I was at the Forest game and I don't believe the problem is in the striking department.

We played well at Forest. Things are definitely improving and a good result is now only around the corner. These last two games against Derby and Forest are the best we've played since Clement became the manager. Things are definitely looking up.

The players only now need to learn to be more effective in terms of making chances and they need to be more aggressive and ruthless at the back. They need to cut out the errors.

I think some of them still have Stam's ideas and ways in their heads and they need to try and forget everything Stam taught them and learn the new Reading way under Paul Clement. At times on Saturday we saw defenders dallying on the ball, looking to play out and being pressured into mistakes. Whilst that fortunately didn't result in an opposition goal this time around, a more effective Coppell side would have pinged those balls into wide areas for the likes of a Doyler or a Long to chase. Now we have runners in Baldock and Bodvarsson and can play balls into wide areas when under defensive pressure and needing to clear lines knowing that Baldock and Bod can run hard and give us a good chance of retaining possession.

We need to stop being afraid to lose possession and get up the pitch faster. We need to be a bit more gung ho and force the issue a bit more.

We need to get forward quickly down the wings and get quality balls into the box. If we put more balls into the box then I'm sure Bodvarsson would get on the end of one of them and find the net. Bodvarsson did well on Saturday. His understanding with Baldock will come. We just need to be patient. Hopefully Clement will continue to coach them well and the moves will come.

We were definitely the better side on Saturday.


Oh, Top, Top, don'tcha know we're doomed? DOOMED I tell yer!


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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Old Man Andrews » 13 Aug 2018 09:01

Genuinely thought we were ok, big improvement on last season. I think we are going to be the sort of team who will always lose to the top sides but consistently beat those sides in and around us. We will end up comfortably midtable which I will take.

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Maneki Neko » 13 Aug 2018 09:35

sandman wrote:It's not writing these players off to see that none of them are strikers a club at this level should have as first choice. They're all good second or third choice strikers that would supplement a squad but none of them are going to get the goals you need to get anywhere but mid table, if you're lucky.

.


this is daft

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Maneki Neko » 13 Aug 2018 09:37

Notts Royal wrote:Agree with Sandman. Snowflake I don’t think previous posters have been that critical of the signings, just pointing out why we didn’t win the game & areas we are deficient in.

No we don’t have the “millions” of other clubs in our league, but if we spent £3m or so (don’t believe it was the quoted £7m) on Sone Aluko, we could easily spend the quoted £1.5m on someone like Jerome - yes he’s a bit of a donkey but he can play as a lone striker & is at least an upgrade on Jon Dadi.

No one has faulted the effort shown by the team, which was a big improvement, and i actually think a Clement is the righ man to take this team forward.

I think you’re the one who needs to get a grip on your interpretations of this thread
its precisely because we spent 7 (or 3) million on aluko, and all the other dross in our highest spending season ever, that we don't have the money to spend on Cameron jerome

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by sandman » 13 Aug 2018 10:05

Maneki Neko wrote:
sandman wrote:It's not writing these players off to see that none of them are strikers a club at this level should have as first choice. They're all good second or third choice strikers that would supplement a squad but none of them are going to get the goals you need to get anywhere but mid table, if you're lucky.

.


this is daft


How? Surely it's just common sense.

What is it about those players and their records that suggests to you they are anything other than hard working support strikers? The only one that has scored over 20 goals in a season in recent years is Mcnulty and that was in league 2, which is a big step up for him. Baldock did it in 13-14 but again at a lower level.

We need to be realistic, we can't afford better because of poor recruitment throughout the last few seasons. So we have to hope the strikers we've signed can contribute enough goals get us to safety.

I've no doubt they will be trying their damndest to do so.
Last edited by sandman on 13 Aug 2018 10:18, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Maneki Neko » 13 Aug 2018 10:15

because when you say none of them should be 1st choice for a club at this level, I just fundamentally disagree with your assessment.

I think both there is potential for mcnulty and baldock to happily be first choice at a midtable championship team, given a run of games, and a bit of luck, and the right team around them.

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by sandman » 13 Aug 2018 10:31

The problem with people like you and Ian is that you put words into other people's posts that aren't there.

So when you see someone make the perfectly reasonable statement that these strikers are not consistent goalscorers you see, "these strikers aren't consistent goalscorers. Therefore they're useless tw@ts and we should go out and spend £20m that we don't have".

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Snowball » 13 Aug 2018 10:33

Adam le Fondre took the step up and first season with us
scored 12 league goals in 1,864 minutes at a goal every
155 minutes. In THE PREM he scored 12 in 1492 minutes
at a goal every 144 minutes.

Kevin Doyle was from The Irish League. I think he did OK...

Dave Kitson took the step up and got a goal every 164 minutes
for Reading in the Championship , and a very decent 12 Premiership
goals at 277 minutes a goal

Shane Long was a so-called make-weight with the Doyle deal
also from The Irish League and, according to some, "barely a footballer"
but he went on to get 54 goals for Reading in 11,054 minutes at a rate
of one goal every 207 minutes.

He has also managed 53 goals playing for Premiership clubs at a rate
of a goal every 291 minutes.

As for McNulty, he was a lot more than "a 20-goal striker" last season.

He managed 28 goals and 11 assists in 4296 minutes

That is 153 minutes per goal, 110 mins/goalorassist


We are one minute bemoaning the fact that we have stopped plucking
bargains from lower leagues, but then in the next breath we complain
because we ARE.

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Maneki Neko » 13 Aug 2018 10:35

sandman wrote:The problem with people like you and Ian is that you put words into other people's posts that aren't there.

So when you see someone make the perfectly reasonable statement that these strikers are not consistent goalscorers you see, "these strikers aren't consistent goalscorers. Therefore they're useless tw@ts and we should go out and spend £20m that we don't have".


nope.
youre doing what you accuse me of doing.

all I did was take issue with what you said
none of them are strikers a club at this level should have as first choice


I'm saying that I think they could be, and I'm saying that they might be consistent goal scorers at this level, given a decent run at it, and a bit of luck, and the right team around them.


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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by BR0B0T » 13 Aug 2018 10:56

[quote="sandman"]The problem with people like you and Ian is that you put words into other people's posts that aren't there.

these strikers are not consistent goalscorers
these strikers aren't consistent goalscorers

sorry what am I missing here?

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Old Man Andrews » 13 Aug 2018 11:02

Snowball wrote:Adam le Fondre took the step up and first season with us
scored 12 league goals in 1,864 minutes at a goal every
155 minutes. In THE PREM he scored 12 in 1492 minutes
at a goal every 144 minutes.

Kevin Doyle was from The Irish League. I think he did OK...

Dave Kitson took the step up and got a goal every 164 minutes
for Reading in the Championship , and a very decent 12 Premiership
goals at 277 minutes a goal

Shane Long was a so-called make-weight with the Doyle deal
also from The Irish League and, according to some, "barely a footballer"
but he went on to get 54 goals for Reading in 11,054 minutes at a rate
of one goal every 207 minutes.

He has also managed 53 goals playing for Premiership clubs at a rate
of a goal every 291 minutes.

As for McNulty, he was a lot more than "a 20-goal striker" last season.

He managed 28 goals and 11 assists in 4296 minutes

That is 153 minutes per goal, 110 mins/goalorassist


We are one minute bemoaning the fact that we have stopped plucking
bargains from lower leagues, but then in the next breath we complain
because we ARE.


I thought this was a poem at first with the way the text is formatted.

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Snowball » 13 Aug 2018 11:03

BR0B0T wrote:
sandman wrote:The problem with people like you and Ian is that you put words into other people's posts that aren't there.

these strikers are not consistent goalscorers
these strikers aren't consistent goalscorers

sorry what am I missing here?


either an "o" or an apostrophe, depending on your POV

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Snowball » 13 Aug 2018 11:04

Old Man Andrews wrote:
Snowball wrote:Adam le Fondre took the step up and first season with us
scored 12 league goals in 1,864 minutes at a goal every
155 minutes. In THE PREM he scored 12 in 1492 minutes
at a goal every 144 minutes.

Kevin Doyle was from The Irish League. I think he did OK...

Dave Kitson took the step up and got a goal every 164 minutes
for Reading in the Championship , and a very decent 12 Premiership
goals at 277 minutes a goal

Shane Long was a so-called make-weight with the Doyle deal
also from The Irish League and, according to some, "barely a footballer"
but he went on to get 54 goals for Reading in 11,054 minutes at a rate
of one goal every 207 minutes.

He has also managed 53 goals playing for Premiership clubs at a rate
of a goal every 291 minutes.

As for McNulty, he was a lot more than "a 20-goal striker" last season.

He managed 28 goals and 11 assists in 4296 minutes

That is 153 minutes per goal, 110 mins/goalorassist


We are one minute bemoaning the fact that we have stopped plucking
bargains from lower leagues, but then in the next breath we complain
because we ARE.


I thought this was a poem at first with the way the text is formatted.



Well, I am (some say) a poet

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Snowflake Royal » 13 Aug 2018 12:52

sandman wrote:The problem with people like you and Ian is that you put words into other people's posts that aren't there.

So when you see someone make the perfectly reasonable statement that these strikers are not consistent goalscorers you see, "these strikers aren't consistent goalscorers. Therefore they're useless tw@ts and we should go out and spend £20m that we don't have".

Says a man complaining about putting words into people's mouths by putting words into people's mouths.

Generally speaking, if someone's argument is "It's common sense" It's because they haven't put any thought into it and their view is utterly unreliable.

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Aug 2018 13:16

Snowflake Royal wrote:
sandman wrote:The problem with people like you and Ian is that you put words into other people's posts that aren't there.

So when you see someone make the perfectly reasonable statement that these strikers are not consistent goalscorers you see, "these strikers aren't consistent goalscorers. Therefore they're useless tw@ts and we should go out and spend £20m that we don't have".

Says a man complaining about putting words into people's mouths by putting words into people's mouths.

Generally speaking, if someone's argument is "It's common sense" It's because they haven't put any thought into it and their view is utterly unreliable.


So common sense means nothing in your world?
You really ought to seek help.

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Re: BFTG - Forest away

by The Royal Forester » 13 Aug 2018 13:48

Pandoras Box wrote:
The Royal Forester wrote:
Pandoras Box wrote:
As seems to be the norm in today’s world of debate, if someone disagrees with someone’s opinion, their alternative view is manipulated into a negative and anti whatever stance.
No one is writing off any players and no one has said that. Fact.
Bod may have scored a goal in two matches, but there were chances yesterday that he didn’t connect with that a natural poacher type striker may have. Fact

He worked hard and created a couple of chances off his own back but he’s never going to set the world alight, that’s all.
To falsely claim that a valid opinion of someone who witnessed the game yesterday as writing them off is rather unfair.
No one is looking for him to be benched or got rid of and I also don’t believe Baldock or McNulty got the opportunity to show their skills through the service that was offered.
That doesn’t immediately mean we need new strikers and to put everyone on the transfer list.

You say "may have". That also means "may not have", so you are in effect saying a natural poacher type striker may have missed the same chances that Bod missed. THAT is a fact.


Ha ha well done.
Originally I had put, ‘a natural poacher striker would have scored’ but I knew someone would say ‘ you couldn’t prove that’ , so the may have was an intentional edit m’lud.


I'll let you off with a conditional discharge then.

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