Thames Sports Investment

[Uke]

I don't disagree with you though, this could well be good for the club

Rich benefactors (whatever nationality) don't seem to work these days. In fact SJM is perhaps one of the few that did

The new group is not like SJM - they are a faceless consortium (TSI) which can go broke just like any other limited Company - we only know two people who work for this "group".

It is better he sold now and managed the transition, but as Baines also pointed out about 50 pages back, he may have been under pressure to sell from his interests outside the club.

I'm just more concerned about the greeting of the new Messiah. I'm happy to welcome him, but won't hail him as such yet.

He may just be a very naughty boy, given the track records of other Messiahs

TSI may be a "faceless consortium" to us, but I am guessing they are not to SJM.
It was suggested early that a DM scoop prompted the outing of this deal ahead of their intended release date- that is plausable. It is unlike SJM to conduct business in public, however it is great to know of the HoA. It also apparently has convinced JK to commit- and who knows who else it might be being dangled in front of....
For those unaware of the term, it is a statement of agreement of the deal they want. It will contain details of funds, responsibilities, expectations- and evidence based. I cannot imagine SJM signing on a promise that funds will appear.
He will also be around (as will everyone else) to oversee what happens. He is not known for taking excessive risks, and I can see no way he would be talking to people who think it a good idea to mortgage/sell the ground to have a pop at CL football. Nor can I see Nicky Hammond suddenly spending £5m on an unknown son of a arms dealer, who never seems to make the bench.

For the record, many on here seem to confuse "Due Diligence" with some sort of "fit and proper" test. It isn't. Due Diligence is a task undertaken by lawyers and accountants that is essentially going through all the books and contracts and ensuring that things are as they have been presented.
SJM will have valued the club based on the assets and liabilities- an army of pen pushers will be checking that these are accurate, making sure they are aware of add-on clauses, on-going payments due on previous transfers....that the photocopiers are owned and not leased. Both sides will be making sure that there are no nasty surprises.

Precisely, until all these checks are completed TSI aren't even here yet

You make the HoA sound more binding that it is. The definition of HoA - it is a non-binding document outlining the main issues relevant to a tentative (partnership or other) agreement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heads_of_agreement_(law)

Both sides can pull out with no comeback

The New Messiah isn't here yet, TSI are only here when the final contract is signed - and that hasn't happened.

They may have made funds available to show good faith, but these will be repayable should they pull out.

I trust SJM, but am aware he won't be around forever and that we need new blood. I hope these are as good as they sound.

None of us know for sure one way or the other, but we all know what we'd like.

(good posts by the way!)

[Vision]

^ a calculated gamble, but with lower stakes.

Indeed but equally with higher rewards now though.

But one that was more necessary to make given the massive investment we'd made in a stadium that was then half empty and we needed to get significantly fuller to pay for. So the consequences of not doing it were fairly hefty.

And I'd argue we learnt a fairly good lesson in doing it as well given how much money we spent on utter dross under Burns. Pardew had to really earn the ability to spend decent money. How much did Pardew spend before getting us promoted? I'd hazard a guess it wasn't nearly as much as Burns did.

Not much to choose between them to be honest and the first influx of Burns buys were in the 2nd tier albeit at the bottom of it. The stadium attendance factor would play a role of course but i think you're overplaying slightly. I could be wrong on this I seem to remember that attendances barely rose at all on promotion back to the championship until the final stages of the season when the play offs beckoned.

I suspected the prospective added revenue from ITV Digital would have played just as big a factor. Money which we never actually had/got but still budgeted for and something that I think changed Madejski's outlook from then on.

Bottom line though is we ran up significant losses in an attempt to get out of the division on the back of the liquidity of the owner. A calculated risk but hardly prudence and as Zac says to suggest we've always been some paragon of fiscal virtue is rewriting history somewhat.

[Hoop Blah]

Well I picked a great time to be away for a few days…..

My thoughts are that this looks like a great deal for the club and for Madejski but I'll join the masses on the cautiously optimistic side of the fence at the moment.

They're certainly making all the right noises, and I've always trusted that Madejski would only sell to those that he thought would look after the club in the right way, so from that angle there isn't a great deal to worry about. I'm not concerned about the flow of information or the secrecy over who's behind it all and who the full list of investors are at TSI.

On the flip side though the history of such deals around the rest of football isn't littered with stunning successes and so some caution is only natural. My concerns are that it sounds a bit too good to be true, reminds me a bit of the Icelandic takeover at West Ham, and how much money is this significant investment going to see channelled into the playing side.

I've said for a long time that to be really competitive we needed to compete in the market we're in, and that unfortunately means spending beyond your means most of the time. It does sound like this will give us the chance to do this.

A couple of concerns on the playing side. I don't think it matters how much you pay players if you're not successful you still won't be able to keep those players capable of playing at a higher level on a long term basis (eg the likes of Long and Sigurdsson would still leave at some point). How successful will McDermott be in spending larger amounts of money (assuming that's what he's going to be able to do)? So far he's done ok with bringing in cheapish players to form a functional side. It doesn't sound like that will suffice as a long term plan under the new regime and will be finally be able to sign an attacking player who actually holds down a place in the side and improves what we've got (he's not done that as yet).

I read Schards' comment about the club being here for escapism and that we should embrace the chance to dream a little. I pretty much agree with that, although I obviously don't want that dreaming to turn into a nightmare that ends in the club going bust. I'm trusting Madejski that it won't go that way but only time will tell.

[Libertine]

But Brian said on Saturday that Long didn't want to leave - and I'm sure it was the same with Siggy - not ALL players want to go for money.

Agreed...

Exhibit A - Jimmy Kebe

[melonhead]

Good banter. But, you know what im saying. Washed up signings, the kind of players we could bring in before the takeover....

couldnt bring in any one extra before the takeover(which hasnt hapened yet)because we had absolutely no money
and theyve said they will be keeping things the same, it just means we dont have to sell any more stars if we dont really want to, and we can now aford to buy players in when needed, which we couldnt until they came in

so stick your boom up yr RRss

Yeh but we dont need anymore `work in progress` players. We already have a large squad filled with them. We need a couple of quality players to take us to the next level. For that reason mr russian, im out

weve not bought anyone yet- maybe wait and see who actually comes in

id certainly be happy with a big strong proven prem goalscorer on loan, a decent young prospect from a lower league at the back to cover gorkss and pearce(cos tbf defence isntthe area that needs the work)and a midfielder who is good on the ball, and can get forward to give us something different when needed.

has supporting reading not tought you that its not really how much they cost, or where they are from that matters yet?

[LoyalRoyal22]

[couldnt bring in any one extra before the takeover(which hasnt hapened yet)because we had absolutely no money
and theyve said they will be keeping things the same, it just means we dont have to sell any more stars if we dont really want to, and we can now aford to buy players in when needed, which we couldnt until they came in

so stick your boom up yr RRss[/quote]


Yeh but we dont need anymore `work in progress` players. We already have a large squad filled with them. We need a couple of quality players to take us to the next level. For that reason mr russian, im out[/quote]


weve not bought anyone yet- maybe wait and see who actually comes in

id certainly be happy with a big strong proven prem goalscorer on loan, a decent young prospect from a lower league at the back to cover gorkss and pearce(cos tbf defence isntthe area that needs the work)and a midfielder who is good on the ball, and can get forward to give us something different when needed.

has supporting reading not tought you that its not really how much they cost, or where they are from that matters yet?[/quote]

I get your point, but, our squad is already full off players with `potential` and not ability, surely we should let them maximise this before bringing in some more work in progress players. And when was the last time Jason Roberts had a prolific goal scoring seasons? 3 years ago minimum i bet

[Hoop Blah]

But Brian said on Saturday that Long didn't want to leave - and I'm sure it was the same with Siggy - not ALL players want to go for money.

As brendy said, and from what I've read from the weekends coverage, McDermott said he thought Long may have stayed because of their relationship. How that would've panned out with Long's ambitions we'll never know but considering the lure of Premier League football (especially in the season before a major Championship) as well as the money I'd say that might've been wishful thinking on Brian's part.

Same goes with Sigurdsson. The club would no longer be under pressure to sell players so the money can cover our losses but we've all seen how the likes of Shorey, Hunt and Sidwell wanted to test themselves on perceived bigger stages.

[LoyalRoyal22]

[melonhead]

aaaaarrrgggghhhh my head!

[Vision]

But Brian said on Saturday that Long didn't want to leave - and I'm sure it was the same with Siggy - not ALL players want to go for money.

As brendy said, and from what I've read from the weekends coverage, McDermott said he thought Long may have stayed because of their relationship. How that would've panned out with Long's ambitions we'll never know but considering the lure of Premier League football (especially in the season before a major Championship) as well as the money I'd say that might've been wishful thinking on Brian's part.

Same goes with Sigurdsson. The club would no longer be under pressure to sell players so the money can cover our losses but we've all seen how the likes of Shorey, Hunt and Sidwell wanted to test themselves on perceived bigger stages.

This really.

My answer to this is always if Long really wanted to stay and McD could have persuaded him then why didn't he?

I just don't buy the tearful farewell at the train station while Madejski and Howe bundle Long into the back of a van at gunpoint to drive him to West Brom to double his wages at a higher level of football in a Euro Championship year.

Siggy the same. Being sorry or even reluctant to leave is not the same as being forced out.

[Royal Lady]

You don't think Hammond and SJM TOLD McD he HAD to sell them? That's the vibe I got after both sales tbf....

[melonhead]

i think the management team looked at the offer and knew they couldnt turn it down for multitudinous reasons

only one of which was that the club couldnt afford to


i do however believe that brian believes he could have got long to stay another year with this investment
i even believe he may just have been able to do so

[Hoop Blah]

Being sorry or even reluctant to leave is not the same as being forced out.

Or the same as actually being happy to stay.

[Ark Royal]

If/when Roberts does sign, I might then finally forgive him for the new arsehole he ripped us - with Curo's help - back in January 99. He was immense that day.

[Bandini]

But Brian said on Saturday that Long didn't want to leave - and I'm sure it was the same with Siggy - not ALL players want to go for money.

As brendy said, and from what I've read from the weekends coverage, McDermott said he thought Long may have stayed because of their relationship. How that would've panned out with Long's ambitions we'll never know but considering the lure of Premier League football (especially in the season before a major Championship) as well as the money I'd say that might've been wishful thinking on Brian's part.

Same goes with Sigurdsson. The club would no longer be under pressure to sell players so the money can cover our losses but we've all seen how the likes of Shorey, Hunt and Sidwell wanted to test themselves on perceived bigger stages.

This really.

My answer to this is always if Long really wanted to stay and McD could have persuaded him then why didn't he?

I just don't buy the tearful farewell at the train station while Madejski and Howe bundle Long into the back of a van at gunpoint to drive him to West Brom to double his wages at a higher level of football in a Euro Championship year.

Siggy the same. Being sorry or even reluctant to leave is not the same as being forced out.

It might just be similar to the Kebe situation, however. A more ambitious environment plus a bit extra in wages might have been sufficient to keep them.

[LoyalRoyal22]

aaaaarrrgggghhhh my head!

[Hoop Blah]

The ambition bit potentially being quite key.

I've always felt that the way we didn't chase a European place in '07 signalled to the players that the club wasn't somewhere they were going to continue to grow as players and took an edge off of us for the follow (relegation) season.

[Uke]

You don't think Hammond and SJM TOLD McD he HAD to sell them? That's the vibe I got after both sales tbf....

Now all has to do is say "no" to a Russian billionaire (who has an "encyclopaedic knowledge of football") when he wants to make 'suggestions' for the first team...

[Silver Fox]

I've always felt that the way we didn't chase a European place in '07.

[postwhisperer]

The ambition bit potentially being quite key.

I've always felt that the way we didn't chase a European place in '07 signalled to the players that the club wasn't somewhere they were going to continue to grow as players and took an edge off of us for the follow (relegation) season.

relegation was one of madejski happiest days