Opposition fans back from the game

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tmesis
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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by tmesis » 15 Sep 2022 23:35

The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Notts Royal » 16 Sep 2022 10:11

tmesis The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.


Agree to a certain extent, but there are several clubs who are now pulling in at least double the numbers we are, so have to be considered big clubs from our perspective.

The decline was initiated by that Brian v1 sacking really - I know several people who believe the club lost its soul with that decision.

Poor ownership has been the biggest contributor I think. There was also a noticeable dip following Stam’s criticism of the fanbase.

But it is worrying that 12k is now the average

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Stranded » 16 Sep 2022 10:28

Notts Royal
tmesis The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.


Agree to a certain extent, but there are several clubs who are now pulling in at least double the numbers we are, so have to be considered big clubs from our perspective.

The decline was initiated by that Brian v1 sacking really - I know several people who believe the club lost its soul with that decision.

Poor ownership has been the biggest contributor I think. There was also a noticeable dip following Stam’s criticism of the fanbase.

But it is worrying that 12k is now the average


It's not really worrying, it's the level of our hardcore support - around 10k home fans. We have a pretty large number of floating fans who have stayed away mainly because watching football at the SCL has for the most part been a lifeforce sapping experience for the past decade. Add in the cost of living crisis and people will make choices, even a STH may decide against the odd game if they feel they can't run to the costs of the day/night out. For a non-regular, I would say it may be pretty much a no-go at the moment.

For what it's worth, if home form continues to be good between now and the World Cup, then you may well start to see an uptick in crowd numbers over Xmas/New Year (if people feel they can afford it).

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by windermereROYAL » 16 Sep 2022 10:30

Notts Royal
tmesis The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.


Agree to a certain extent, but there are several clubs who are now pulling in at least double the numbers we are, so have to be considered big clubs from our perspective.

The decline was initiated by that Brian v1 sacking really - I know several people who believe the club lost its soul with that decision.

Poor ownership has been the biggest contributor I think. There was also a noticeable dip following Stam’s criticism of the fanbase.

But it is worrying that 12k is now the average


Since the PO season there has been very little to tempt the missing Thousands back.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by tmesis » 16 Sep 2022 10:38

Stranded
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tmesis The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.


Agree to a certain extent, but there are several clubs who are now pulling in at least double the numbers we are, so have to be considered big clubs from our perspective.

The decline was initiated by that Brian v1 sacking really - I know several people who believe the club lost its soul with that decision.

Poor ownership has been the biggest contributor I think. There was also a noticeable dip following Stam’s criticism of the fanbase.

But it is worrying that 12k is now the average


It's not really worrying, it's the level of our hardcore support - around 10k home fans. We have a pretty large number of floating fans who have stayed away mainly because watching football at the SCL has for the most part been a lifeforce sapping experience for the past decade. Add in the cost of living crisis and people will make choices, even a STH may decide against the odd game if they feel they can't run to the costs of the day/night out. For a non-regular, I would say it may be pretty much a no-go at the moment.

For what it's worth, if home form continues to be good between now and the World Cup, then you may well start to see an uptick in crowd numbers over Xmas/New Year (if people feel they can afford it).

I know of season ticket holders who've been going for years/decades, who've jacked it in, and don't miss it.

Unless we are up at the top of the championship, looking like a genuinely good team, those people aren't coming back.

Even with the decent home form (until Wednesday) there's a fog of depression over the Madejski that's sat there for years, and until fans, and the town as a whole, stops expecting the team to be crap, things aren't going to improve.


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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Hound » 16 Sep 2022 11:25

Must say was a bit disappointed with the attendance Wednesday

Going back to the Stam season, with some pretty dull football on display despite the relative success, think we were pulling in 16-19 most weeks

Considering we could have gone 2nd…

Guess it’s a bit of the lowering of expectations (maybe rightly) by Ince and co doesn’t help. If we keep being told we’re not a good team, and avoiding relegation is the only objective, it’s not a great rallying cry. But no doubt other factors involved

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Dirk Gently » 16 Sep 2022 11:59

Hound Must say was a bit disappointed with the attendance Wednesday

Going back to the Stam season, with some pretty dull football on display despite the relative success, think we were pulling in 16-19 most weeks

Considering we could have gone 2nd…

Guess it’s a bit of the lowering of expectations (maybe rightly) by Ince and co doesn’t help. If we keep being told we’re not a good team, and avoiding relegation is the only objective, it’s not a great rallying cry. But no doubt other factors involved


Yes, but everyone who knows anything about the team knows deep in their heart that the good start is a bit of a fluke and this is going to be a long season of lacklustre performances and uninspiring struggle.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Hound » 16 Sep 2022 12:21

Dirk Gently
Hound Must say was a bit disappointed with the attendance Wednesday

Going back to the Stam season, with some pretty dull football on display despite the relative success, think we were pulling in 16-19 most weeks

Considering we could have gone 2nd…

Guess it’s a bit of the lowering of expectations (maybe rightly) by Ince and co doesn’t help. If we keep being told we’re not a good team, and avoiding relegation is the only objective, it’s not a great rallying cry. But no doubt other factors involved


Yes, but everyone who knows anything about the team knows deep in their heart that the good start is a bit of a fluke and this is going to be a long season of lacklustre performances and uninspiring struggle.


Well yeah. Point being is constantly being reminded of that won’t help the attendance

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Snowflake Royal » 16 Sep 2022 12:27

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tmesis The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.


Agree to a certain extent, but there are several clubs who are now pulling in at least double the numbers we are, so have to be considered big clubs from our perspective.

The decline was initiated by that Brian v1 sacking really - I know several people who believe the club lost its soul with that decision.

Poor ownership has been the biggest contributor I think. There was also a noticeable dip following Stam’s criticism of the fanbase.

But it is worrying that 12k is now the average

12k is where we were in L1 and at promotion when we moved here.

It's pretty much spot on for us as a side with a decade long poor home record struggling to stay up in the Championship.


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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by tmesis » 16 Sep 2022 20:29

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tmesis The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.


Agree to a certain extent, but there are several clubs who are now pulling in at least double the numbers we are, so have to be considered big clubs from our perspective.

The decline was initiated by that Brian v1 sacking really - I know several people who believe the club lost its soul with that decision.

Poor ownership has been the biggest contributor I think. There was also a noticeable dip following Stam’s criticism of the fanbase.

But it is worrying that 12k is now the average

12k is where we were in L1 and at promotion when we moved here.

It's pretty much spot on for us as a side with a decade long poor home record struggling to stay up in the Championship.

In our promotion season we averaged over 14000.

The covid break was probably really bad for us. A lot of fans just got out of the habit of going to games, because they couldn't go.

There were probably a large number of those fans who were already finding their loyalty tested, who just found they didn't miss coming to watch us be crap/boring every other Saturday.

I don't think our crowds are especially bad considering the last decade of football, but the club desperately needs an injection of enthusiasm.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by SCIAG » 16 Sep 2022 20:37

tmesis The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.

Agree. We typically have fewer empty seats than Napoli or Lyon, and we have a higher average attendance than Monaco, so I conclude that we should really be playing in the Champions League.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by genome » 16 Sep 2022 20:52

I would've thought that at some point between 12 and 16 years old you stop caring about how many people attend a football match

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Hound » 16 Sep 2022 21:18

genome I would've thought that at some point between 12 and 16 years old you stop caring about how many people attend a football match


Tbh you should stop caring about football about that age as well, but we don’t do we?


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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Jinx » 16 Sep 2022 21:24

I stopped caring ages ago - I just go as its an excuse to see family

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by The Royal Forester » 16 Sep 2022 21:32

Twelve thousand crowd. That would have MASSIVE at Elm Park back in the days of lower division football. Crowds of less than 9000 (on many occasions a lot less). were the norm. It was only when we left Elm Park that the attendance figures jumped up well over ten thousand, and then full to bursting in the first promotion and Premier League seasons. Of course fans stopped going when we were relegated, that is only natural. If we have another 106 season crowds will come flocking again, but, at the moment that seems a long way off.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by JR » 17 Sep 2022 00:26

windermereROYAL
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tmesis The willy-waving about attendances is mainly from the clubs who like to think of themselves as big clubs, but aren't.

Genuinely big clubs compare themselves against the other big clubs.


Agree to a certain extent, but there are several clubs who are now pulling in at least double the numbers we are, so have to be considered big clubs from our perspective.

The decline was initiated by that Brian v1 sacking really - I know several people who believe the club lost its soul with that decision.

Poor ownership has been the biggest contributor I think. There was also a noticeable dip following Stam’s criticism of the fanbase.

But it is worrying that 12k is now the average


Since the PO season there has been very little to tempt the missing Thousands back.


You can’t criticise the pricing though, as there are very few clubs, if any, who have been as generous with their long term price freezes.

If anything it’s because we don’t have the core base of fans that a Sunderland do - they will turn out 30k regardless how dire the football is because it’s their life and soul up there. Not the case down here, so we’ll fluctuate heavily between good and bad seasons on the pitch.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Sep 2022 10:26

JR
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Agree to a certain extent, but there are several clubs who are now pulling in at least double the numbers we are, so have to be considered big clubs from our perspective.

The decline was initiated by that Brian v1 sacking really - I know several people who believe the club lost its soul with that decision.

Poor ownership has been the biggest contributor I think. There was also a noticeable dip following Stam’s criticism of the fanbase.

But it is worrying that 12k is now the average


Since the PO season there has been very little to tempt the missing Thousands back.


You can’t criticise the pricing though, as there are very few clubs, if any, who have been as generous with their long term price freezes.

If anything it’s because we don’t have the core base of fans that a Sunderland do - they will turn out 30k regardless how dire the football is because it’s their life and soul up there. Not the case down here, so we’ll fluctuate heavily between good and bad seasons on the pitch.

We don't fluctuate heavily between good and bad seasons.

18/19 - 14,991 - 20th
17/18 - 16,656 - 20th
16/17 - 17,505 - 3rd
15/16 - 17,285 - 17th
14/15 - 17,022 - 19th
13/14 - 19,171 - 7th
11/12 - 19,219 - 1st
10/11 - 17,682 - 5th
09/10 - 17,408 - 9th
08/09 - 19,942 - 4th
05/06 - 20,234 - 1st
04/05 - 17,169 - 7th
03/04 - 15,095 - 9th
02/03 - 16,011 - 4th

That's a remarkably stable average attendance showing we can maintain a core of 17,000 fans until we have a run of multiple poor seasons, with bad home results and poor performances.

Sunderland actually average under 30k in the Championship in recent years prior to their drop to L1, and drop about 13,000 fans the second they drop out of the PL. Which is about a quarter of their PL attendance. We drop about 3,000 in the same circumstances... which is about a 7th of our PL attendance.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by CountryRoyal » 17 Sep 2022 11:35

Snowflake Royal
JR
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Since the PO season there has been very little to tempt the missing Thousands back.


You can’t criticise the pricing though, as there are very few clubs, if any, who have been as generous with their long term price freezes.

If anything it’s because we don’t have the core base of fans that a Sunderland do - they will turn out 30k regardless how dire the football is because it’s their life and soul up there. Not the case down here, so we’ll fluctuate heavily between good and bad seasons on the pitch.

We don't fluctuate heavily between good and bad seasons.

18/19 - 14,991 - 20th
17/18 - 16,656 - 20th
16/17 - 17,505 - 3rd
15/16 - 17,285 - 17th
14/15 - 17,022 - 19th
13/14 - 19,171 - 7th
11/12 - 19,219 - 1st
10/11 - 17,682 - 5th
09/10 - 17,408 - 9th
08/09 - 19,942 - 4th
05/06 - 20,234 - 1st
04/05 - 17,169 - 7th
03/04 - 15,095 - 9th
02/03 - 16,011 - 4th

That's a remarkably stable average attendance showing we can maintain a core of 17,000 fans until we have a run of multiple poor seasons, with bad home results and poor performances.

Sunderland actually average under 30k in the Championship in recent years prior to their drop to L1, and drop about 13,000 fans the second they drop out of the PL. Which is about a quarter of their PL attendance. We drop about 3,000 in the same circumstances... which is about a 7th of our PL attendance.


Don’t forget since Club1871 we’ve lost up to another ~2000 fans on some games, won’t make a huge difference I wouldn’t have thought but it’s still a contributing factor.

Fact is, we don’t have an overly large fan base, I’d imagine we’re in the lower quarter for the division at the moment. Sunderland have spent 96% of their history in the top two divisions and 79% of those, in the top tier of English football. In a 50 mile radius they are competing with a grand total of 3 other football league clubs compared to 24 for us, and it is a historically (and presently) a poor working class area with little affluence. When you consider that, someone who gives a shit about attendances might argue theirs are a bit crap.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Hound » 17 Sep 2022 12:28

How the hell did we average 16.5k in Stam season 2? That was some of the worst football I’ve ever seen that year, even worse than Pauno last year I reckon

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Sep 2022 14:36

Hound How the hell did we average 16.5k in Stam season 2? That was some of the worst football I’ve ever seen that year, even worse than Pauno last year I reckon

Winning at home. After two shit seasons and four in a row winning less than 10 at home, people will tolerate shit when it brings 16 (?) H wins. That second season we were constantly thinking we were about to turn a corner and it was a blip.

Plus I'm pretty sure attendances will be based on ticket sales, not bums on seats. We still dropped a thousand even with most of it covered by optimistic STs

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