The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Vision » 25 May 2023 17:18

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Snowflake Royal Loader got 12 appearances, and 8 of them came under Bowen. Boye only started 5 games.

Richards started on 22 October, 9 November and 23 November, so three of Bowen's first 5 games in charge. The bit about leaving for free makes no sense seeing as Richards left while Paunovic was here and Bowen wasn't. Unless you're mixing up your paragraphs and went back to Loader.


Loader's 12 appearances included 1 League start before Puscas, Joao and Boye were signed. He never started a single League game after that splurge or after Bowen took over. 5 of those 12 appearances you mention were in the cup and the remaining ones combined a total of 43 minutes (20 of those came in Bowen's first home game against Preston which we won while he was on the field) playing time over 7 games mostly as a late time wasting substitute .

If we're comparing just by using your "Appearance" metric, Boye made 24 appearances in total that season. We can argue the "wheres and whys" but it's patently obvious that Loader did not get the pitch time (post Puscas etc) to progress as his pedigree would suggest he might. Of course there may have been other reasons, he may have been shit in training but whatever the reason he just didn't get on the pitch enough.


The time for the Richards contract to be renewed was before Pauno's season started. Once Richards got noticed due to his performances that season he was never going to sign with less than a year left and bigger clubs sniffing around.

And after that game in late November he didn't start another League game until Sheffield Wednesday on February 15th.

I vividly remember a game away at Derby County early after the Covid break where he had, in my opinion, his best game for us but was substituted and dropped from the next game. It may be that my opinion is skewed by that recollection and it was probably a fair enough decision since we beat Luton 5-0 lol. I suspect that Bowen had probably made the decision to rotate his squad for those final post covid games anyway and that the team selections were to some degree pre-chosen.

However it still goes back to my feeling that there was not enough faith shown in him, for him to sign any new deal at this stage. By the time he developed into a good player (or a manager cottoned on to how good he could be if used correctly) it was too late.

You can keep changing your story to fit your narrative all you want, but Loader under performed in his pitch time and didn't deserve more. And Richards in no way stood out from the alternatives until Pauno, when there were none, and was objectively not 'immediately dropped' by Bowen as you claimed.


Not sure I've changed any story, just directly responded to what you wrote.

I've just shown that Loader did not get enough pitch time in the league after the Puscas/Joao/Boye splurge which was my original point that you argued with.

Fair enough i'm wrong about Richards - I also think it was actually from early December to February when he didn't start a League game . As I said I think my opinion wrt to Richards is probably skewed by that Derby game I mentioned but clearly we didn't know what we really had in Richards until someone else got it out of him. By then it was too late as far as him signing a contract was concerned.

But that's always the conundrum with young players. Someone has to gamble a little on what they will be rather than what they currently are when it comes to contracts.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Stranded » 26 May 2023 07:26

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Loader's 12 appearances included 1 League start before Puscas, Joao and Boye were signed. He never started a single League game after that splurge or after Bowen took over. 5 of those 12 appearances you mention were in the cup and the remaining ones combined a total of 43 minutes (20 of those came in Bowen's first home game against Preston which we won while he was on the field) playing time over 7 games mostly as a late time wasting substitute .

If we're comparing just by using your "Appearance" metric, Boye made 24 appearances in total that season. We can argue the "wheres and whys" but it's patently obvious that Loader did not get the pitch time (post Puscas etc) to progress as his pedigree would suggest he might. Of course there may have been other reasons, he may have been shit in training but whatever the reason he just didn't get on the pitch enough.


The time for the Richards contract to be renewed was before Pauno's season started. Once Richards got noticed due to his performances that season he was never going to sign with less than a year left and bigger clubs sniffing around.

And after that game in late November he didn't start another League game until Sheffield Wednesday on February 15th.

I vividly remember a game away at Derby County early after the Covid break where he had, in my opinion, his best game for us but was substituted and dropped from the next game. It may be that my opinion is skewed by that recollection and it was probably a fair enough decision since we beat Luton 5-0 lol. I suspect that Bowen had probably made the decision to rotate his squad for those final post covid games anyway and that the team selections were to some degree pre-chosen.

However it still goes back to my feeling that there was not enough faith shown in him, for him to sign any new deal at this stage. By the time he developed into a good player (or a manager cottoned on to how good he could be if used correctly) it was too late.

You can keep changing your story to fit your narrative all you want, but Loader under performed in his pitch time and didn't deserve more. And Richards in no way stood out from the alternatives until Pauno, when there were none, and was objectively not 'immediately dropped' by Bowen as you claimed.


Not sure I've changed any story, just directly responded to what you wrote.

I've just shown that Loader did not get enough pitch time in the league after the Puscas/Joao/Boye splurge which was my original point that you argued with.

Fair enough i'm wrong about Richards - I also think it was actually from early December to February when he didn't start a League game . As I said I think my opinion wrt to Richards is probably skewed by that Derby game I mentioned but clearly we didn't know what we really had in Richards until someone else got it out of him. By then it was too late as far as him signing a contract was concerned.

But that's always the conundrum with young players. Someone has to gamble a little on what they will be rather than what they currently are when it comes to contracts.


Richards is a weird one, moving to Bayern only happened as he was free. Bayern knew there was only a 10% chance he would be good enough but would turn a nice profit.

If had stayed with us, he would likely still be with us or just be OOC now.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Sutekh » 26 May 2023 08:42

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Snowflake Royal You can keep changing your story to fit your narrative all you want, but Loader under performed in his pitch time and didn't deserve more. And Richards in no way stood out from the alternatives until Pauno, when there were none, and was objectively not 'immediately dropped' by Bowen as you claimed.


Not sure I've changed any story, just directly responded to what you wrote.

I've just shown that Loader did not get enough pitch time in the league after the Puscas/Joao/Boye splurge which was my original point that you argued with.

Fair enough i'm wrong about Richards - I also think it was actually from early December to February when he didn't start a League game . As I said I think my opinion wrt to Richards is probably skewed by that Derby game I mentioned but clearly we didn't know what we really had in Richards until someone else got it out of him. By then it was too late as far as him signing a contract was concerned.

But that's always the conundrum with young players. Someone has to gamble a little on what they will be rather than what they currently are when it comes to contracts.


Richards is a weird one, moving to Bayern only happened as he was free. Bayern knew there was only a 10% chance he would be good enough but would turn a nice profit.

If had stayed with us, he would likely still be with us or just be OOC now.


Must be good being a big club, whoever you sign immediately gets a premium when they come to be sold, even if they're only sold for that premium!

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Stranded » 26 May 2023 09:21

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Not sure I've changed any story, just directly responded to what you wrote.

I've just shown that Loader did not get enough pitch time in the league after the Puscas/Joao/Boye splurge which was my original point that you argued with.

Fair enough i'm wrong about Richards - I also think it was actually from early December to February when he didn't start a League game . As I said I think my opinion wrt to Richards is probably skewed by that Derby game I mentioned but clearly we didn't know what we really had in Richards until someone else got it out of him. By then it was too late as far as him signing a contract was concerned.

But that's always the conundrum with young players. Someone has to gamble a little on what they will be rather than what they currently are when it comes to contracts.


Richards is a weird one, moving to Bayern only happened as he was free. Bayern knew there was only a 10% chance he would be good enough but would turn a nice profit.

If had stayed with us, he would likely still be with us or just be OOC now.


Must be good being a big club, whoever you sign immediately gets a premium when they come to be sold, even if they're only sold for that premium!


Absolutely you would have to say the 10m Forest bought him for is probably the bare minimum you are going to get a player from them for as a PL club these days. Shame for him that he has been out all season with a broken leg so not had a chance to show if he can hack it in the PL - chances are he'll slide back in to the Champ on loan next year, if fit.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Sutekh » 26 May 2023 09:23

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Richards is a weird one, moving to Bayern only happened as he was free. Bayern knew there was only a 10% chance he would be good enough but would turn a nice profit.

If had stayed with us, he would likely still be with us or just be OOC now.


Must be good being a big club, whoever you sign immediately gets a premium when they come to be sold, even if they're only sold for that premium!


Absolutely you would have to say the 10m Forest bought him for is probably the bare minimum you are going to get a player from them for as a PL club these days. Shame for him that he has been out all season with a broken leg so not had a chance to show if he can hack it in the PL - chances are he'll slide back in to the Champ on loan next year, if fit.


Or League One perhaps?


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Hound » 26 May 2023 09:44

Yeah can’t see Forest bothering with him too much next year

What happened there? Was a minor fracture in pre season which seemed to not go away. Can’t say I tracked it after the new year so was he just not selected?

Another 10m plus just spunked away by Forest

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Stranded » 26 May 2023 10:34

Hound Yeah can’t see Forest bothering with him too much next year

What happened there? Was a minor fracture in pre season which seemed to not go away. Can’t say I tracked it after the new year so was he just not selected?

Another 10m plus just spunked away by Forest


Nottingham Post reporting the following just a couple of days back:

Omar Richards
Injury: Hairline fracture of leg.

What we know: The left-back is yet to make his debut in the Garibaldi after making the move from Bayern Munich. He was involved in part-training before the World Cup break, and was in the group which travelled to Greece as part of the preparations for the restart.

However, just when he had started to make progress, the defender suffered another setback. As a result, the decision was taken to leave him out of Forest's 25-man Premier League squad for the second half of the season.

What has been said: "Omar is still getting close. He's not back training with us yet,” Cooper recently said.

Of the decision to omit him from the squad list, the Welshman previously said: “Unfortunately, Omar has had a setback with his recovery. He was just about ready to train again.

"He’s had a tough period. For me, how you deal with the difficult moments and how you recover from them is how you end up being who you are. We’re continuing that message with Omar, saying, maybe all of this is happening for a bit of a reason, to be where you’re going to end up for us.

“We don’t think anything less of him. In fact, we think more of him.

“We feel a bit sorry for him sometimes, because he’s had setbacks - but he doesn’t want that. It hasn’t really changed our plans for him, in terms of what we thought he might give us; we’re just having to wait a bit longer for him. But he’ll get there, I’m sure.”

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Vision » 26 May 2023 14:57

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Snowflake Royal You can keep changing your story to fit your narrative all you want, but Loader under performed in his pitch time and didn't deserve more. And Richards in no way stood out from the alternatives until Pauno, when there were none, and was objectively not 'immediately dropped' by Bowen as you claimed.


Not sure I've changed any story, just directly responded to what you wrote.

I've just shown that Loader did not get enough pitch time in the league after the Puscas/Joao/Boye splurge which was my original point that you argued with.

Fair enough i'm wrong about Richards - I also think it was actually from early December to February when he didn't start a League game . As I said I think my opinion wrt to Richards is probably skewed by that Derby game I mentioned but clearly we didn't know what we really had in Richards until someone else got it out of him. By then it was too late as far as him signing a contract was concerned.

But that's always the conundrum with young players. Someone has to gamble a little on what they will be rather than what they currently are when it comes to contracts.


Richards is a weird one, moving to Bayern only happened as he was free. Bayern knew there was only a 10% chance he would be good enough but would turn a nice profit.

If had stayed with us, he would likely still be with us or just be OOC now.


That's why sell on clauses are also important to factor into transfers. It's almost a win/win for buyer and seller in some respects. It's also why committing early to young talent so as not to let them just walk away is a vital, if difficult, component.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Sutekh » 28 May 2023 15:44

Any leaks yet as to the Academy status for next season?


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by On Strings » 01 Jun 2023 22:43

3 academy lads that have left have had a pop at how bad things are behind the scenes at their level, including facilities, staff... (two of who, are Harries and Mukandi)

No surprise really when we've cut back on literally everything to keep the club going.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Stranded » 02 Jun 2023 06:19

On Strings 3 academy lads that have left have had a pop at how bad things are behind the scenes at their level, including facilities, staff... (two of who, are Harries and Mukandi)

No surprise really when we've cut back on literally everything to keep the club going.


Have you confused the Academy and Women's team here?

The man Eddie tweeted overnight that decision on Cat 1 due by end June and should be positive.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 02 Jun 2023 08:51

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On Strings 3 academy lads that have left have had a pop at how bad things are behind the scenes at their level, including facilities, staff... (two of who, are Harries and Mukandi)

No surprise really when we've cut back on literally everything to keep the club going.


Have you confused the Academy and Women's team here?

The man Eddie tweeted overnight that decision on Cat 1 due by end June and should be positive.


Possibly, but I think there is some truth in that. We stripped a lot of the academy right down, letting a lot of players go, staff members leaving, cut backs etc. Although I definitely think that's back on the rise again now and hopefully the Category One status is restored soon.

It's nowhere near as bad as what Derby have had this season mind you.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Sutekh » 02 Jun 2023 09:13

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On Strings 3 academy lads that have left have had a pop at how bad things are behind the scenes at their level, including facilities, staff... (two of who, are Harries and Mukandi)

No surprise really when we've cut back on literally everything to keep the club going.


Have you confused the Academy and Women's team here?

The man Eddie tweeted overnight that decision on Cat 1 due by end June and should be positive.


Possibly, but I think there is some truth in that. We stripped a lot of the academy right down, letting a lot of players go, staff members leaving, cut backs etc. Although I definitely think that's back on the rise again now and hopefully the Category One status is restored soon.

It's nowhere near as bad as what Derby have had this season mind you.


Last season i think they let a few more lads go than necessary to try and save some money somewhere even though the Academy doesn't count toward ffp. Can only go by the previously reported feedback on the Academy from around when the audit was done which was extremely positive (though obvs. a club isn't going to report negative stuff if they don't have to) and the ongoing comments like the tweet from Eddie still seemingly being very positive about cat 1 coming back.


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by RG30 » 27 Jun 2023 14:34

Understand Manchester City are closing in on the signing of 16 year old talented striker Luca Fletcher from Reading.

Medical passed and paper work being signed — been told fee around £600k with future add-ons.

Part of City project to sign and develop the best youn talents.



https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1673684068754501634?s=20

Has been mentioned on here before but an excellent deal for all parties. Hope he goes onto live up to his potential.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Stranded » 27 Jun 2023 14:48

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Understand Manchester City are closing in on the signing of 16 year old talented striker Luca Fletcher from Reading.

Medical passed and paper work being signed — been told fee around £600k with future add-ons.

Part of City project to sign and develop the best youn talents.



https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1673684068754501634?s=20

Has been mentioned on here before but an excellent deal for all parties. Hope he goes onto live up to his potential.


Fletcher already confirmed in Instagram that he is off - great deal and 600k now is a massive help as the club try to navigate out of the shit it finds itself in. Imagine add-ons could see this fee get to 1m or so (be amazing if it also has a sell on %), which for a player none of us had really heard of and hasn't even made the u18s yet, is exactly the kind of business we should be doing.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Stranded » 27 Jun 2023 16:03

James Earnshaw stating we also have a sell on clause - so great deal.

Apparently, we offered him a guaranteed pro deal when he turned 17 - April '24 but turned it down to head to Citeh.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by RG30 » 27 Jun 2023 16:18

Assuming the club have done a u-turn on trying to get Cat 1 Academy status? As crucial as it is long term, don't see the justification in the £2million+ outlay it will set the club back for the upcoming season.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Wycombe Royal » 27 Jun 2023 16:28

RG30 Assuming the club have done a u-turn on trying to get Cat 1 Academy status?

How did you jump to that conclusion? The assessment has already been done and we are just waiting for the verdict.....

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by RG30 » 27 Jun 2023 16:49

Just because an assessment has been done, doesn't necessary mean we'll go forward with it.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Hendo » 27 Jun 2023 17:00

Surely the club would've already paid for and completed the work before the assessment took place?

If so, would be a bit pointless to do all that up-front and then not run with it. Especially as it sounds like we've just recouped 1/4 of the cost already just by selling Fletcher, and that is without any add-ons/sell on clauses taken into consideration.

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