CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

[Ian Royal]

I'm confused why we only loaned him for 5 months and not the whole season...

And what happened about this agreed fee we had, I'm guessing he turned us down

We loaned him because we ran out of time to do the paperwork for a permanent move and there were questions about whether he'd be the same player as he was before his injury. We allegedly had a deal in place with a fee agreed and the transfer in principle ready to go. Then he performed well Warnock got sacked, Palace needed more strikers and Pardew offered him the chance to be part of a Premier League Squad. Even if we were offering the same wages as Palace (which was never going to be the case) and the fee was already in place, why would he sign on to us and play regularly mid-table Championship football, when he could be playing occasional Premier League football.

Once the route to carry on and actually play at Palace opened up for him, we had no chance.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I'm confused why we only loaned him for 5 months and not the whole season...

And what happened about this agreed fee we had, I'm guessing he turned us down

We loaned him because we ran out of time to do the paperwork for a permanent move and there were questions about whether he'd be the same player as he was before his injury. We allegedly had a deal in place with a fee agreed and the transfer in principle ready to go. Then he performed well Warnock got sacked, Palace needed more strikers and Pardew offered him the chance to be part of a Premier League Squad. Even if we were offering the same wages as Palace (which was never going to be the case) and the fee was already in place, why would he sign on to us and play regularly mid-table Championship football, when he could be playing occasional Premier League football.

Once the route to carry on and actually play at Palace opened up for him, we had no chance.

Except that RFC lied and said we had first option to buy.

[Ouroboros]

What good is first option to buy if the player doesn't want to sign?

[Hoop Blah]

I think from what's been said throughout there was an agreement in place for the transfer to happen at the end of the loan period, it just needed everyone to still want it to go ahead.

Obviously not all parties subject to the deal wanted to happen though.

I don't think the club lied.

[Extended-Phenotype]

What good is first option to buy if the player doesn't want to sign?

He had already signed, m8.

If the deal was true. Which it wasn't.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I think from what's been said throughout there was an agreement in place for the transfer to happen at the end of the loan period, it just needed everyone to still want it to go ahead.

Obviously not all parties subject to the deal wanted to happen though.

I don't think the club lied.

Then its no different to just a 5 month loan deal. Why even say first option to buy and suggest that nobody else can sign him if we want him? Its bullshit.

[Horsham Royal]

I think from what's been said throughout there was an agreement in place for the transfer to happen at the end of the loan period, it just needed everyone to still want it to go ahead.

Obviously not all parties subject to the deal wanted to happen though.

I don't think the club lied.

Then its no different to just a 5 month loan deal. Why even say first option to buy and suggest that nobody else can sign him if we want him? Its bullshit.

Unsure exactly what was said, but "we have first option to buy" doesn't rule out him staying put (at Palace).
No-one else bought him.

[Pepe the Horseman]

an agreement is in place for him to stay at Madejski Stadium for the long term, if he stays injury free.

[Hoop Blah]

If you're arguing over the semantics then an agreement being in place doesn't mean it's been signed or confirmed. My take on it at the time was that they'd probably agreed some kind of fee or an agreement that we could make it permanent, perhaps as a first refusal kind of thing, as and when the loan ran out.

I don't recall the club or anyone else saying that it was a done deal and he was effectively a permanent signing which is what some seem to be implying.

[TBM]

I still don't understand why we just didn't sign him in August....Ian Royal's bullshit about it "being too late" doesn't hold as other deals were done with players and other clubs plus Reading would have to had agreed the "future fee" of him along with wages etc. The club tried to be clever by stalling in case he got injured, instead he played well and Palace thought "hmm maybe we won't let him go after all"

[Extended-Phenotype]

I think from what's been said throughout there was an agreement in place for the transfer to happen at the end of the loan period, it just needed everyone to still want it to go ahead.

Obviously not all parties subject to the deal wanted to happen though.

I don't think the club lied.

Then its no different to just a 5 month loan deal. Why even say first option to buy and suggest that nobody else can sign him if we want him? Its bullshit.

Unsure exactly what was said, but "we have first option to buy" doesn't rule out him staying put (at Palace).
No-one else bought him.

It was ruled out. It was apparently our decision if we wanted him or not. A contract like that isn't much use if the other contracted party can just change their mind.

Call me kerazee but First refusal isnt first refusal if someone else can refuse first.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I still don't understand why we just didn't sign him in August....Ian Royal's bullshit about it "being too late" doesn't hold as other deals were done with players and other clubs plus Reading would have to had agreed the "future fee" of him along with wages etc. The club tried to be clever by stalling in case he got injured, instead he played well and Palace thought "hmm maybe we won't let him go after all"

Which is what I said would happen when I argued it was a shit signing. People shot me down saying that couldn't happen because we had first refusal. This defence was echoed by the club.

Which club is Murray at, again?

Oh yeah. Palace.

[Hoop Blah]

Imagine where we'd be if we'd not managed to sign him and we had the current impotent strikeforce from September to January as well?

Imagine where we'd be if we'd signed him and it turned out he couldn't get back to the player he was and we had another 30-something centre forward with dodgy knees on a 3 year contact?

I doubt Murray was ever that keen on making the deal permanent by the sound of things and coming down from a Premier League club he'd have been demanding some pretty serious wages too.

[Angry Shed Sex]

My youngest made a Glenn Murray book mark and bangle for me for Christmas.

It must have taken ages. She cried when I told her he's gone back to Palace.

[TBM]

Imagine where we'd be if we'd not managed to sign him and we had the current impotent strikeforce from September to January as well?

Imagine where we'd be if we'd signed him and it turned out he couldn't get back to the player he was and we had another 30-something centre forward with dodgy knees on a 3 year contact?

I doubt Murray was ever that keen on making the deal permanent by the sound of things and coming down from a Premier League club he'd have been demanding some pretty serious wages too.

Maybe it was his choice, to do the loan first - with the intention to use us to get fit and back to the Palace team but fact is, Murray didn't sign and we haven't replaced him despite having the money in place to do so

[Hoop Blah]

I guess the club might argue that they have replaced Murray....with Yakubu!

[Extended-Phenotype]

Imagine where we'd be if we'd not managed to sign him and we had the current impotent strikeforce from September to January as well?

Imagine where we'd be if we'd signed him and it turned out he couldn't get back to the player he was and we had another 30-something centre forward with dodgy knees on a 3 year contact?

I doubt Murray was ever that keen on making the deal permanent by the sound of things and coming down from a Premier League club he'd have been demanding some pretty serious wages too.

but that's not what I'm talking about. It was said we had first refusal. We could have refused if he turned out shite.

[Hoop Blah]

We probably did have first refusal.

Doesn't really matter if the player refuses it or his club aren't selling him though does it?

[TBM]

Ian Royal was pretty confident it was a done deal

“When it comes to January it will be down to the clubs and then I will make my decision on the back of that. But I can’t see why it couldn’t be permanent,” he said.

Apology accepted Ian.

And I'll accept yours for doom mongering that we've got no control over the transfer when it's pretty clearly a done deal, even based on that.

In all honesty I'm guessing there's a framework in place with some small room for maneuver depending on performance, and like pretty much anything, if someone wants to wreck it bad enough they'll manage it.

There's got to be a fee negotiated already and Murray is going to have a damn good idea of what we're going to pay him and for how long. So it's surely got to take something spectacular to not go through.

[Extended-Phenotype]

We probably did have first refusal.

Doesn't really matter if the player refuses it or his club aren't selling him though does it?

You seem to be struggling a bit with what I am saying m8.

It was suggested at the time that Murray was signed on a 5 month loan in which if Reading were happy, he'd be ours. As in both his club and the player himself had signed to that effect.

If he or his club could change their minds, then a contract like this is little more than a 5 month loan. The other clauses are just fluff. "Option to buy" is meaningless.

I argued on this thread that it wasnt a deal worth getting excited about because if he turned out great he'd be off back to Palace. People on here started suplexing me convinced by the club that the only party which could decide if Murray would stay at Reading, was Reading.

That has been proven to be false.

I really can't be arsed to break it down any simpler than that.