FAO Adkinsistas

[peterroyal76]

If that were true then why is he doing such a shoddy job of managing this near perfect team?

Presumably that player is Messi.

Paul McShane

[Zana Badawi]

Not sure why this has thread has come up, but liked this bit.

If we lose all three? Not particularly.

A whole new level of mediocrity defending.

[SCIAG]

a style of football that might have given us a chance in the Premiership.

If I hear this clichéd bollox again...

Perhaps you should go deaf then. There are plenty of others within football who would say the same. The majority of the teams that survive in the PL play that different style of football.

That's not true. It isn't hard to check if things are true before you say them, particularly when they are simple matters of fact like this.

Since we were relegated under Coppell, here are the teams that survived after promotion and whether they played possession-based football:
Stoke - no
Hull - no
Wolves - no
Birmingham - no
Newcastle - no
West Brom - yes
QPR - no
Norwich - no
Swansea - yes
Southampton - yes
West Ham - no
Crystal Palace - no
Hull - no

You could quibble about some of them, but I think most of them played counter attacking football, except perhaps for the two Nolan/Carroll teams, Stoke, and Wolves, who were defensive, long ball teams relying on set pieces or magic from the strikers.

Now, the better question is do teams who play a possession based game have a better chance of staying up? Do they have a better chance of getting up in the first place? Or are there some question marks about causation - maybe only the better teams used possession based systems? Maybe only the best teams can succeed using a possession based system?

Regardless, it is clearly untrue that only teams who play with possession based systems can stay up.

If we sack Adkins and get a hoofball merchant in

The options aren't "Adkins" and "hoofball merchant". We could appoint someone with a similar style to Adkins who nevertheless gets more out of the players. We could appoint a pragmatist like McDermott. We could appoint someone more focused on possession like Eamonn Dolan (it worked well for Southampton).

[Sutekh]

Reckon we'll lose at Norwich and draw with both Bolton and Brum....

[leon]

When Rogers was sacked we had just drew 1 all with Scunthorpe or someone equally shit. We had 20 odd shots on target and played some great stuff. Gylfie missed a sitter from 6 yards etc etc. I believe to this day that he was turning the corner and it was the wrong time for him to go. I remeber being abused on the Bus back to Brackers for saying this.
At the moment, this team is not producing performances that give me the impression there is light at the end of the tunnel. I sincerley hope this changes at Norwich as I like Adkins and want him to do well. But, if the scenario above happens, yes, he has to go.

This is pretty much how I feel except Norwich and Bolton are the key games.

And spot on about Rodgers - he should have got more time.

[Libertine]

Call me an Adkinista but much of what is happening is dealing with the hand he was dealt.

Can he blamed for the rash of injuries? Is it his fault that Pearce has taken a step back now that he is the experienced defender working alongside someone younger rather than having someone more experienced to partner with? Our midfield is lightweight and provides no protection for the defense, getting Williams back helps but Williams alone isn't the answer...we need a Leigertwood type of player to give our midfield more "steel". Despite his shortcomings as a player we are missing Jobi's leadership on and off the pitch. Too often, and actually almost always the past 2 seasons, when we concede first heads drop and it's game over. The team right now lacks the mental toughness to overcome adversity. And we look good until we get to the final third where, on more days than not, we usually seem to lack the guile/talent/ability to unlock the opposing defenses. Some of this can be pinned on Adkins but not all imo.

With the aforementioned Williams back and McCleary's return to first team football imminent, I think things will improve, even if only marginally. Until we can get an experienced central defender and defensive midfielder in though the results will be underwhelmingly mixed at best because our biggest problem is in the back.

[PistolPete]

Call me an Adkinista but much of what is happening is dealing with the hand he was dealt.

Can he blamed for the rash of injuries? Is it his fault that Pearce has taken a step back now that he is the experienced defender working alongside someone younger rather than having someone more experienced to partner with? Our midfield is lightweight and provides no protection for the defense, getting Williams back helps but Williams alone isn't the answer...we need a Leigertwood type of player to give our midfield more "steel". Despite his shortcomings as a player we are missing Jobi's leadership on and off the pitch. Too often, and actually almost always the past 2 seasons, when we concede first heads drop and it's game over. The team right now lacks the mental toughness to overcome adversity. And we look good until we get to the final third where, on more days than not, we usually seem to lack the guile/talent/ability to unlock the opposing defenses. Some of this can be pinned on Adkins but not all imo.

With the aforementioned Williams back and McCleary's return to first team football imminent, I think things will improve, even if only marginally. Until we can get an experienced central defender and defensive midfielder in though the results will be underwhelmingly mixed at best because our biggest problem is in the back.

Perfect summary!

[mambo3]

Call me an Adkinista but much of what is happening is dealing with the hand he was dealt.

Can he blamed for the rash of injuries? Is it his fault that Pearce has taken a step back now that he is the experienced defender working alongside someone younger rather than having someone more experienced to partner with? Our midfield is lightweight and provides no protection for the defense, getting Williams back helps but Williams alone isn't the answer...we need a Leigertwood type of player to give our midfield more "steel". Despite his shortcomings as a player we are missing Jobi's leadership on and off the pitch. Too often, and actually almost always the past 2 seasons, when we concede first heads drop and it's game over. The team right now lacks the mental toughness to overcome adversity. And we look good until we get to the final third where, on more days than not, we usually seem to lack the guile/talent/ability to unlock the opposing defenses. Some of this can be pinned on Adkins but not all imo.

With the aforementioned Williams back and McCleary's return to first team football imminent, I think things will improve, even if only marginally. Until we can get an experienced central defender and defensive midfielder in though the results will be underwhelmingly mixed at best because our biggest problem is in the back.

Don't know if its as simple as you make out. Seems there is something far deeper than what's happening on the pitch.
Smoke Screens and Mirrors are at work. The Players look like they don't want to be there.
Arguing among themselves during the game. Atkins going on twitter?????????? Not Good

[SPARTA]

These players can't play modern day passing football. Adkins will never be given the funds he needs to bring in the players that can, nor given the time to ship out those who can't - largely because of the impatient unrealistic spanners we have as fans here. It's only a matter of time before Adkins goes, sadly.

[P!ssed Off]

These players can't play modern day passing football. Adkins will never be given the funds he needs to bring in the players that can, nor given the time to ship out those who can't - largely because of the impatient unrealistic spanners we have as fans here. It's only a matter of time before Adkins goes, sadly.

I thought you didn't care either way?

"I just can't connect to the club any more and one game at the start of the season was more than enough for me and sadly may well be for a very long time."

Interesting someone that says the above has the cheek to have a pop at "impatient unrealistic spanners we have as fans".

[Vision]

Which of these players can't play this supposed "modern day passing" football?

Martinez and O'Driscoll both managed to implement this style pretty swiftly with less gifted players.

There's an awful lot of guff spoken about how ths modern day passing game is some sort of mystical secret that only a selected few can understand,implement or play. It's still about passing and moving, actually with the emphasis on moving. You don't need to be a great passer as such but you do need the will, the bravery and the coaching to do so.

There may be the odd player on our books that would struggle from a technical point of view on a consistent basis but generally there isn't anyone who shouldn't be capable of it with the right coaching.

In the end though you still need players that will stretch the opposition and make them scared of playing too high up. Rodgers didn't have this player while with us (well he did but he didn't seem too keen on playing him) and Adkins doesn't have one now.

I'd argue that probably the Godfather of this modern style Wenger wouldn't have had quite the success without Henry yet equally he managed to forge a perfectly decent passing side with the George Graham Back Four

[handbags_harris]

Q: assuming of course we lose to Norwich and then secure poor results against Bolton and Birmingham.....could you really have any complaints if Adkins then goes, as we will by then be entrenched in the bottom 3

Could I have any complaints based purely on results? I'd be a bit disappointed, but no.

Could I have any complaints based on factors surrounding a potential sacking and poor results? Yes I think so as where the club itself is concerned he hasn't been given a fair chance, for a whole season his signing potential was nil (yet still people seem to think that was Adkins' or Hammond's fault).

And to be perfectly honest with you, who is there out there who could do a better job under the circumstances Adkins has had to contend with?

Personally I'd love it if Chris Gunter quantified his recent statement where he is quoted as saying to BBCRB:-

"The manager has stuck with this club in some dark times over the past 12 months, There are things people don't know."

Bloody well tell us so we can make an informed opinion!!

[Pandoras Box]

This ^
If we know at least something, we might cut a bit of slack, but you can't keep playing shIt and telling us the reason is that there are things the supporters don't know, but we sure ain't going to tell you - cos that gives an excuse to play sh1t every week.
And whatever Gunther says - he is playing badly. When he is on that pitch in the heat of the battle - he should play to his ability - (Hang on I'm not going to stop that cross because something was said in the boardroom- although I wasn't party to it) (and I won't say what). Bollox.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

God I don’t even know where to start but here goes:

1) For Gunter to say “He’s stuck by the club”. Just fcuk off. Anyone would think Barca came calling & dear old Nige said “Nope sorry I’m sticking at Reading on my paltry salary of 5 shillings a week because I’m the most noble guy on Earth”. Hardly – he, just like Pog & Drenthe & most probably Gunter are on mega bucks deals & know full well they won’t ever earn that sort of dosh again. No one has come in for Adkins (regrettably I might add).

2) Yet again Gunter is making feeble excuses as to why we are so epically sh1t. Stop blaming ownership & the like! You gets your money, go out there & play like a fcuking international should. There is more than enough experience / talent / potential whatever in that squad to not be staring down the barrel of relegation & anyone who suggests this isn't the case, can just well, fcuk off too.

3) The feeble excuses and mental weakness is intertwined with Adkins’ entire tenure to date. Sorry Nige – is it Anton’s fault you have only managed to win 2 games after going a goal down in almost 2 years? No it bloody well isn’t.

4) The shocking defending & clueless attacking. Again Nige – what the hell are you & your coaching staff doing during the week?! How come every player is getting WORSE? Please divulge. Ah no…hang on don’t tell me, yes it’s Anton’s fault & none of us know what’s going on behind the scenes…..sorry should have guessed.

5) Money – that’s another great excuse trotted out frequently. Yet Nigel was given money wasn’t he? He brought in Murray, Norwood, Mackie & Cox. One could argue that Nigel did absolutely nothing to strengthen at the back & instead all of his focus went on attacking players. Why did you do that Nige? Especially when seeing as you know so much (apparently), you might have had a inkling that we’d sell Morro if a decent offer came in no??

6) Those people who keep defending him yet don’t attend please STFU as us “mindless spanners” are the poor cnuts having to watch this insipid football every week & have been for 2 years.

[Royal Rother]

Which of these players can't play this supposed "modern day passing" football?

Martinez and O'Driscoll both managed to implement this style pretty swiftly with less gifted players.

Not forgetting Mark McGhee who I always think of as the best example for us to use of this type of transformation.

[leon]

Which of these players can't play this supposed "modern day passing" football?

Martinez and O'Driscoll both managed to implement this style pretty swiftly with less gifted players.

Not forgetting Mark McGhee who I always think of as the best example for us to use of this type of transformation.

But it wasn't possession for possession's sake. McGhee's team could pass the ball quickly and could break at speed. It had pace. It could also mix up play as well.

The team at the moment just can't do any of that.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Fans dont have the patience for a team to evolve. That's why little clubs remain little clubs.

[Royal Rother]

Which of these players can't play this supposed "modern day passing" football?

Martinez and O'Driscoll both managed to implement this style pretty swiftly with less gifted players.

Not forgetting Mark McGhee who I always think of as the best example for us to use of this type of transformation.

But it wasn't possession for possession's sake. McGhee's team could pass the ball quickly and could break at speed. It had pace. It could also mix up play as well.

The team at the moment just can't do any of that.

Absolutely but it did take circa 18 months to gel didn't it?

Maybe it's all going to fall into place anytime now....

[MmmMonsterMunch]

But that's not going to happen Rother. They are getting steadily worse.

[Ian Royal]

If we lose all three? Not particularly.
Just like you couldn't really have any complaints when McDermott was sacked.

I think we'll probably do a little better than that though. And having no complaints if it happens doesn't make it the right decision, or in fact mean it'll happen.

You're really pushing your luck there Ian...
Anyone else would interpret "poor results against Bolton and Birmingham" to include draws as well as losses.

Let's say we lose to Norwich and then pick up a combined 2 points vs 21st and 19th in the league. You'd have complaints about the manager being sacked after that?

That would be a new low, even for you...

I'd rather give a manager a couple of games too many than sack them early. That way lies the sort of idiocy that produces 11 managers in 10 years. Or worse.

No need to get your knickers in a twist because you don't like my opinion. Especially seeing as its all hypothetical.

If Adkins starts an unbeaten run i think its fair to wait a bit longer to see if its the start of something better or not. If it isnt youll get to see the axe weilded soon enough anyway

Besides. As ive said. Hes going nowhere until we're in the bottom three or fans gave been loudly and actively calling for his head for at least a couple of home games. That's not even started yet.