BFTG Sheffield Weds (H)

[If you still hate Futcher]

I didn't see much improvement in Robson-Kanu today and his penalty attempt was dreadful. He scored - luckily in my opinion - with a similar penalty against Norwich earlier in the season. Rolling the ball gently along the ground into the centre of the goal only works if the goalie dives one way or the other!! Today Ruddy stood his ground!

Which really shouldn't have made much difference given he wasn't playing in goal!

Ooops!
Of course Ruddy did dive (for Norwich!). Westwood (for Wednesday) didn't. I'm sure he would have watched a recording of the Norwich game for that info!

^^^this, the trouble with the penalty was it was exactly the same as the one he took a couple of weeks ago - in fact it's the same penalty he takes every time. Usually he gets the keeper to go the wrong way and then strokes the ball into the empty net. When the keeper didn't dive it probably put him off a bit and rather than being able to adjust he just scuffed his shot making it look even worse.

For the offside goal, I thought at the time McCleary was onside but as I was in the North I assumed it was the angle I was looking at and there didn't seem to be that much of a reaction from fans behind the lino.

Now for something completely different - do Wednesday have a particular gripe with us? Their fans were a throwback to about 20-30 years ago. Saw a few of them being nicked as I was walking in and there was a group of about 20 or so saying "wait till Old Bill's gone". Couldn't work out if they were going to start on us or each other.

[bcubed]

Also noticed at the time that their keeper did a star jump before the penalty and rattled the crossbar. Is that allowed?

[Winston Smith]

MOTM - the Madejski pigeon.

[paultheroyal]

Also noticed at the time that their keeper did a star jump before the penalty and rattled the crossbar. Is that allowed?

Yes

[bcubed]

Also noticed at the time that their keeper did a star jump before the penalty and rattled the crossbar. Is that allowed?

Yes

Ta
I think HRK was mesmerised by the bouncing bar

[RoyalBlue]

Which really shouldn't have made much difference given he wasn't playing in goal!

Ooops!
Of course Ruddy did dive (for Norwich!). Westwood (for Wednesday) didn't. I'm sure he would have watched a recording of the Norwich game for that info!

^^^this, the trouble with the penalty was it was exactly the same as the one he took a couple of weeks ago - in fact it's the same penalty he takes every time. Usually he gets the keeper to go the wrong way and then strokes the ball into the empty net. When the keeper didn't dive it probably put him off a bit and rather than being able to adjust he just scuffed his shot making it look even worse.

For the offside goal, I thought at the time McCleary was onside but as I was in the North I assumed it was the angle I was looking at and there didn't seem to be that much of a reaction from fans behind the lino.
.

There was a very angry reaction from fans in the East Stand behind the lino, which continued for some time, and rightly so.

Watch a recording of the incident in slowmo and you will see why. At the time HRK passes, the lino is a couple of yards ahead of the rugby line marking and McCleary is a couple of yards behind! Now either the lino is in line with the last defender*, in which case McCleary is yards onside, or he is ahead (I think he actually tracked Cox's run! ) and therefore not able to properly judge whether McCleary is on or offside.

Not completely possible to tell from the footage but imagine a line running parallel to the rugby line and cutting across the back of the defender and McCleary is at worst in line with him as the ball is released by HRK. Extremely poor officiating from a very poor official.

Awful penalty.

Not quite as awful as the linesman's offside flag for McCleary.
He was so blatantly onside! I think there needs to be some sort of retrospective punishment for linesmen wrongly ruling out goals for offside. It might encourage them to actually follow the rules for a change and give the attacker the benefit of the doubt.

He didnt rule out a goal for offside. The ref saw the flag, and blew the whistle before McCleary took his shot. Van Persie got a second yellow and a sending off at Barcelona for Arsenal for doing exactly that.
The assistant referees (as they are actually called) don't follow the rules, they follow the laws of football. In every game they will probably make a 100 decisions. They get paid about £300. What punishment would you give for one wrong decision? Nathaniel Chalobah gets paid £30,000 a week and he made a few wrong decisions today, so I assume you'll include that in your thinking about the punishment to the bloke getting 1% of that.

How would you judge that the "mistake" was worthy of whatever punishment it was decided upon - for example, how many slow motion replays would be required? And would that need to be done for every single decision? Would they get a bonus for the decision that was right, even though some pillock was screaming that they got it wrong? Would it only apply to decisions that were absolutely right or wrong, rather than those where different people have different opinions? Given that every ref and assistant ref will make a mistake in a game - either as a matter of fact, or according to some pillock's opinion - do you think that punishing them, lets say by dropping them altogether or removing the match fee for one mistake will a) lead to no referees at all and therefore no football or b) lead to no referees at all and therefore no football.

The reason he made the 'mistake' was that he wasn't staying in line with the last defender as he is required to do so. Therefore, it wasn't so much a case of making an innocent mistake, he simply wasn't doing his job as instructed, which is far more culpable.

Oh, and if he flagged because Cox was offside, then he is one iteration behind the latest laws, which is even more culpable!

Edit: *As Nameless correctly points out, I do, of course, mean the last but one defender. I was speaking on the assumption that in most cases the keeper is behind the last outfield defender.

[Nameless]

Also noticed at the time that their keeper did a star jump before the penalty and rattled the crossbar. Is that allowed?

Yes

Except if he did it deliberately to put the opponent off in which case a caution for unsporting behaviour would be quite in order, also the taker would be quite entitled to wait until the bar was still before taking the kick. The star jump is fine as long as he stays on the goal line until the ball is kicked

[Nameless]

Staying in line with the last but one defender (not the last, that would lead to all sorts of errors.....) is of course the aim. It can be very tricky when there is lots of movement.
Would be interesting to know how many posters have ever officiated at games in a serious manner. Amazing how people change their views of things once they have actually had a flag or a whistle for a few games !!
Doesn't excuse officials getting it wrong, but you perhaps have more sympathy with how easy it is to get wrong footed, or just glance in the wrong direction and miss what look like obvious calls....

[RoyalBlue]

Staying in line with the last but one defender (not the last, that would lead to all sorts of errors.....) is of course the aim. It can be very tricky when there is lots of movement.
Would be interesting to know how many posters have ever officiated at games in a serious manner. Amazing how people change their views of things once they have actually had a flag or a whistle for a few games !!
Doesn't excuse officials getting it wrong, but you perhaps have more sympathy with how easy it is to get wrong footed, or just glance in the wrong direction and miss what look like obvious calls....

You are, of course correct. It is the last but one defender but I am making the assumption that in most cases the keeper is behind the last outfield defender. I have run the line and it is damn difficult. In fact, I think it is more difficult than refereeing. However, in my experience, staying in line with the last but one defender is one of the easiest parts of the role!

[Nameless]

However, in my experience, staying in line with the last but one defender is one of the easiest parts of the role!

99% of the time, but there are times when it is really tricky !
A couple of defenders moving one direction at different speeds, an attacker sprinting the other way and an arial long ball over the top has you moving in two directions and looking in 3 !!
I once sat in on a presentation by Darrec Cann and interestinly he said a rule of thumb he uses is that if an attacker moving at pace looks a yard offside he almost certainly isn't. The top linos certainly factor in reaction times etc when deciding whether to flag and they get it right the vast majority of times. Certainly more often than the TV pundits.

[If you still hate Futcher]

Pog and Williams were class. Wednesday's big striker was fcuking awful.

Agree with Pog being good yesterday, although he took a little while to get going - it seemed as though the Wednesday defenders wound him up and he then started putting himself about.

Not so sure about Williams though - he did battle well and put in loads of effort but on several occasions his first touch was so poor that his second one was a tackle. When he did have the ball he never had it fully under control and looked as if he was about to fall over

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Pog and Williams were class. Wednesday's big striker was fcuking awful.

Agree with Pog being good yesterday, although he took a little while to get going - it seemed as though the Wednesday defenders wound him up and he then started putting himself about.

Not so sure about Williams though - he did battle well and put in loads of effort but on several occasions his first touch was so poor that his second one was a tackle. When he did have the ball he never had it fully under control and looked as if he was about to fall over

That's our struggle-pig all over. Its part of his charm

[3points]

Pog and Williams were class. Wednesday's big striker was fcuking awful.

Agree with Pog being good yesterday, although he took a little while to get going - it seemed as though the Wednesday defenders wound him up and he then started putting himself about.

Not so sure about Williams though - he did battle well and put in loads of effort but on several occasions his first touch was so poor that his second one was a tackle. When he did have the ball he never had it fully under control and looked as if he was about to fall over

Spot on assessment of Williams. His first touch has been poor all season. Lots of effort though and looked a different player yesterday. Wish he would get in the box a bit more as I think he'd score a few more goals if he did. There was of course one comedy moment near the end of the game when he did fall over after never having the ball under control.

[Ian Royal]

Also noticed at the time that their keeper did a star jump before the penalty and rattled the crossbar. Is that allowed?

Yes

Except if he did it deliberately to put the opponent off in which case a caution for unsporting behaviour would be quite in order, also the taker would be quite entitled to wait until the bar was still before taking the kick. The star jump is fine as long as he stays on the goal line until the ball is kicked

And he wasn't, He'd taken about three small steps forward and was about half a yard or more off his line by the time Kanu kicked it, refs rarely do a thing about it, but should have been a re-take.

[Man Friday]

LoL at some people making excuses for the lino. It was a bad decision, plain and simple. He was nearly a metre (a good two feet) on-side the precise moment the ball was played. Just lucky that it didn't matter.

[tidus_mi2]

The problem for the lino was just about everyone behind him could clearly see McCleary was onside and he's the one who is supposed to have the best training to spot it, I was sat in Y20 so was right behind the lino, it was clear as day really which is why there was an incredibly angry reaction to it.

[RoyalBlue]

Awful penalty.

Not quite as awful as the linesman's offside flag for McCleary.
He was so blatantly onside! I think there needs to be some sort of retrospective punishment for linesmen wrongly ruling out goals for offside. It might encourage them to actually follow the rules for a change and give the attacker the benefit of the doubt.

He didnt rule out a goal for offside. The ref saw the flag, and blew the whistle before McCleary took his shot. Van Persie got a second yellow and a sending off at Barcelona for Arsenal for doing exactly that.
The assistant referees (as they are actually called) don't follow the rules, they follow the laws of football. In every game they will probably make a 100 decisions. They get paid about £300. What punishment would you give for one wrong decision? Nathaniel Chalobah gets paid £30,000 a week and he made a few wrong decisions today, so I assume you'll include that in your thinking about the punishment to the bloke getting 1% of that.

How would you judge that the "mistake" was worthy of whatever punishment it was decided upon - for example, how many slow motion replays would be required? And would that need to be done for every single decision? Would they get a bonus for the decision that was right, even though some pillock was screaming that they got it wrong? Would it only apply to decisions that were absolutely right or wrong, rather than those where different people have different opinions? Given that every ref and assistant ref will make a mistake in a game - either as a matter of fact, or according to some pillock's opinion - do you think that punishing them, lets say by dropping them altogether or removing the match fee for one mistake will a) lead to no referees at all and therefore no football or b) lead to no referees at all and therefore no football.

You're either a Referee's Union spokesman, or just a cretin in general.

The linesman's flag and the referees whistle did not affect the play. The same event would have transpired had the linesman correctly kept his flag down. Ergo: the goal was ruled out for offside.

Chalobah's pay/ job performance, is completely irrelevant to that of a match official.
And are we really supposed to feel sorry for match officials only getting paid "about £300" for 90 minutes work? That sounds like quite a good rate to me.

To be fair to them it isn't 'about £300' for 90 minutes work. I suspect they have to be at the ground at least 2 hours before kickoff and won't leave till nearly an hour after. Most will have to travel some way 3-4 hours return and they also have to train and keep fit during the week. I certainly wouldn't do it for the money.

However, if you are going to take the job on, you should at least get the basics right and that includes staying in line with the last but one defender (not one of the strikers). Yesterday the guy put himself in a position where he was odds on to make a mistake. He then compounded that situation by not managing to work out that if McCleary was offside at the time HRK passed, he would in all probability be closer to Sheff Weds goal than him (the lino) and not two or three yards behind him!

[paultheroyal]

The problem for the lino was just about everyone behind him could clearly see McCleary was onside and he's the one who is supposed to have the best training to spot it, I was sat in Y20 so was right behind the lino, it was clear as day really which is why there was an incredibly angry reaction to it.

We were in Y24 and thought it was offside judging by the reaction of fans near the decision ie tame. *true story*

[urz13]

HRK played well - two great balls into Cox and McCleary respectively which resulted in a one on one miss and a disallowed goal. A godawful penalty but he played well overall.

[P!ssed Off]

HRK played well - two great balls into Cox and McCleary respectively which resulted in a one on one miss and a disallowed goal. A godawful penalty but he played well overall.

Also had a shot, that beat the keeper, cleared off the line in the first half.