Welcome back Brian!

[Ian Royal]

Pace doesn't much help breaking down a prepared defence in numbers. That's for counter attacks against unsupported defences using lots of space.

Couple of tweaks to the side, a dose of confidence and we're away.

Of course it does Ian Ffs. How do you think Barcelona and Spain actually score from all that constant passing in front of defences? A decent ball and a sudden injection of...........oh yes, pace.

It's not all about counter attacking football (as much as I like it)

They don't do it through raw pace by sprinting past people. They beat you by speed of thought and change of pace using the ball.

It's no good having quick players if the defence is set in numbers. You've got to have space to exploit. But it looks like the point was about pace of play and moving the ball, which is fair enough... I'd call that tempo though.

McCleary's goal against Brentford wasn't particularly about speed of running. It was about the pace and intelligence with which he and Vydra moved the ball, beating Brentford's defence in the mind to gain that yard of space to shoot from.

[CountryRoyal]

Pace doesn't much help breaking down a prepared defence in numbers. That's for counter attacks against unsupported defences using lots of space.

Couple of tweaks to the side, a dose of confidence and we're away.

Of course it does Ian Ffs. How do you think Barcelona and Spain actually score from all that constant passing in front of defences? A decent ball and a sudden injection of...........oh yes, pace.

It's not all about counter attacking football (as much as I like it)

They don't do it through raw pace by sprinting past people. They beat you by speed of thought and change of pace using the ball.

It's no good having quick players if the defence is set in numbers. You've got to have space to exploit. But it looks like the point was about pace of play and moving the ball, which is fair enough... I'd call that tempo though.

McCleary's goal against Brentford wasn't particularly about speed of running. It was about the pace and intelligence with which he and Vydra moved the ball, beating Brentford's defence in the mind to gain that yard of space to shoot from.

Which is what I was saying - we have the physical pace there in our side, but we don't play quickly enough. Everything is a second behind where it should be and then it either doesn't happen because the runs gone offside, the defence has caught on, we lose possession, the chance is gone.

For me that's 2 things, we have the technical ability so that leaves players not playing well together and a lack of confidence. The latter is easier to fix I'd suggest but it's a classic case of what comes first?

[Ian Royal]

Yep. Agree with that.

I think it just comes down to the right eleven played the right way - a dash of luck and away we go.

Whether it's the clever passing football I want to see, o the direct wing play McDermott was so successful with doesn't really matter... so long as the players on the pitch fit the shape and style to achieve it.

We're currently stuck halfway between the two. I'm confident McDermott will settle in the next couple of weeks and we'll start seeing results pick up.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I don't have a problem with trying things out but why stick with what didn't work?

Set up A against Blackburn first half - crap
Set up B against Blackburn second half - good
Set up A against Wolves.

Im all for him trying things out - so next on the agenda I'd like to see him trying to play a striker up top. That would be novel.

There can't be too much longer we can persist with this - it's such a travesty knowing the potential of the squad, yet seeing how limited it currently is.

I think some people feel that to really know if something works or not, you have to give it a few games, otherwise you might be making change after change and the only thing going wrong is that the players just haven't got used to it yet, or maybe it was just a spit of bad luck/form.

I hope we put it to bed now, but remember we only see a tiny fraction of what the manager sees - in training and in person perhaps there is a reason beyond what we see for trying HRK up top. Got to trust the manager up to a point.

[Vision]

I don't have a problem with trying things out but why stick with what didn't work?

Set up A against Blackburn first half - crap
Set up B against Blackburn second half - good
Set up A against Wolves.

Im all for him trying things out - so next on the agenda I'd like to see him trying to play a striker up top. That would be novel.

There can't be too much longer we can persist with this - it's such a travesty knowing the potential of the squad, yet seeing how limited it currently is.

I think some people feel that to really know if something works or not, you have to give it a few games, otherwise you might be making change after change and the only thing going wrong is that the players just haven't got used to it yet, or maybe it was just a spit of bad luck/form.

I hope we put it to bed now, but remember we only see a tiny fraction of what the manager sees - in training and in person perhaps there is a reason beyond what we see for trying HRK up top. Got to trust the manager up to a point.

For me that goes back to something I mentioned on the "egos" thread. The make up of this squad makes it difficult for McD to create the sort of "group mentality" he wants.

As PTR pointed out, all 3 of his games could have gone either way (including the Blackburn win) and we've not been terrible by any means. It's just not quite good enough at the moment and he's obviously trying a few combinations to see if anything sticks and the Liburd substitution was just an instinctive punt.

My personal view is that our best bet for this season is finding a way to get the best from Vydra but I don't think we're a million miles away from being a good side at this level.

One thing I do disagree with most on though is that to my eyes we're playing at a far quicker tempo than previously. We may not be banging crosses into the box but we're definitely moving the ball quicker than the last few weeks under Clarke.

[Longhorn1970]

I agree it didn't help that Tshib got injured when he was looking decent