Record Watch 2016-17

[tmesis]

Interesting to see comments about the division being stronger now. I don't get that impression at all.

Take us, for example. 5th place, and who thinks we are playing well this season?

[parky]

Agree that the division isn't stronger this year. Some big clubs came down 2004/5

[Saaaaaaaammmmmm]

It can't be as big an achievement for any club recently relegated from the Prem though, the playing field is far from level.

Agreed

Immediate promotion is a minimum requirement for all relegated Premier League sides these days, let alone a club the size of Newcastle who have spent £55 Million already this season

Compare that to our lot who had fallen apart at the end of the previous season, spent just over £1 Million on Leroy Lita and the Irish boys, and were hardly expected to even challenge for promotion let alone get 106 points, go 31 unbeaten, and win 10 games in a row (none of which have been topped in the Football League since)

I can't see them doing it, especially as they've already lost three times and needed 95th and 96th minute goals to beat Norwich at the start of this run they're on. We get this every year, there's always an early pacesetter and we always worry they might maintain it over 46 games, which is bloody difficult

Although given they spent more this summer than I think we probably have in our entire history, they really ought to at least get close.....

[TFF]

106 is the worst chant in history. I almost hope the Toon do it.

You can bet your bottom dollar they won't be singing about 107 because literally no-one else gives a fcuk.

But of course they won't do it. It's 9/1 for a reason.

[NewCorkSeth]

Interesting to see comments about the division being stronger now. I don't get that impression at all.

Take us, for example. 5th place, and who thinks we are playing well this season?

I certainly believe standards have improved. There's more money being thrown about than before for sure.

How many recently relegated (previous 3 seasons (I think that's fair)) are there in the championship now as opposed to the 05/06 season?

[Maneki Neko]

fairer to take it beyond when their parachutes run out imo

[genome]

106 is the worst chant in history. I almost hope the Toon do it.

You can bet your bottom dollar they won't be singing about 107 because literally no-one else gives a fcuk.

Probably because it doesn't scan

[NewCorkSeth]

fairer to take it beyond when their parachutes run out imo

5 then?

In the 05/06 season there were 6 teams who had played in the Premier league in the last 5 seasons. Leeds, Leicester, Wolves, Norwich, Palace and Southampton (who coincidentally had all been in the top flight in the last 3 seasons)

Whereas now there are 10 teams who have played in the Premier league in the last 5 seasons. Wolves, Blackburn, Wigan, Fulham, Cardiff, QPR, Newcastle, Norwich, Villa and us. (if we did 3 years it would be 6 teams)

So yeah there's more recent premier league clubs this year than our record year which to me says the league is much stronger now than it was then.

[Jagermesiter1871]

fairer to take it beyond when their parachutes run out imo

5 then?

In the 05/06 season there were 6 teams who had played in the Premier league in the last 5 seasons. Leeds, Leicester, Wolves, Norwich, Palace and Southampton (who coincidentally had all been in the top flight in the last 3 seasons)

Whereas now there are 10 teams who have played in the Premier league in the last 5 seasons. Wolves, Blackburn, Wigan, Fulham, Cardiff, QPR, Newcastle, Norwich, Villa and us. (if we did 3 years it would be 6 teams)

So yeah there's more recent premier league clubs this year than our record year which to me says the league is much stronger now than it was then.

Well yeah other than the fact that it's a pretty shit metric to measure how strong the league is. As mentioned earlier in the thread, this team is a definite work in progress and we're some how in 5th place.. This is a weak division this year.

[Jagermesiter1871]

fairer to take it beyond when their parachutes run out imo

5 then?

In the 05/06 season there were 6 teams who had played in the Premier league in the last 5 seasons. Leeds, Leicester, Wolves, Norwich, Palace and Southampton (who coincidentally had all been in the top flight in the last 3 seasons)

Whereas now there are 10 teams who have played in the Premier league in the last 5 seasons. Wolves, Blackburn, Wigan, Fulham, Cardiff, QPR, Newcastle, Norwich, Villa and us. (if we did 3 years it would be 6 teams)

So yeah there's more recent premier league clubs this year than our record year which to me says the league is much stronger now than it was then.

Well yeah other than the fact that it's a pretty shit metric to measure how strong the league is. As mentioned earlier in the thread, this team is a definite work in progress and we're some how in 5th place.. This is a weak division this year without a doubt.

[NewCorkSeth]

fairer to take it beyond when their parachutes run out imo

5 then?

In the 05/06 season there were 6 teams who had played in the Premier league in the last 5 seasons. Leeds, Leicester, Wolves, Norwich, Palace and Southampton (who coincidentally had all been in the top flight in the last 3 seasons)

Whereas now there are 10 teams who have played in the Premier league in the last 5 seasons. Wolves, Blackburn, Wigan, Fulham, Cardiff, QPR, Newcastle, Norwich, Villa and us. (if we did 3 years it would be 6 teams)

So yeah there's more recent premier league clubs this year than our record year which to me says the league is much stronger now than it was then.

Well yeah other than the fact that it's a pretty shit metric to measure how strong the league is. As mentioned earlier in the thread, this team is a definite work in progress and we're some how in 5th place.. This is a weak division this year.

Alone it might be yes but it indicates that there are more teams operating with a higher budget than previously.

Add in to that the record spending by Championship clubs this summer and the increasing quality of the league standards and I think its fair to say the league is much stronger than it was.

I dont get the argument that we prove the league is shit because we are a work in progress and are 5th? why does that matter after 15 games?

[tidus_mi2]

I would point out something though, are we shit or do you classify our style of football as unattractive? Because it is currently getting the results to have us 5th in the league, if it's not pretty, it certainly is effective. As for the overall strength of the league, the only thing you can do is compare who we lost to who we gained.

Burnely, Middlesbrough and Hull promoted to Premier League
Charlton, MK Dons and Bolton relegated to League One

Newcastle, Norwich, Villa relegated to Championship
Wigan, Barnsley, Burton promoted to Championship

I look at those team change overs and I would argue the league is actually stronger this season.

[Maneki Neko]

Add in to that the record spending by Championship clubs this summer and the increasing quality of the league standards and I think its fair to say the league is much stronger than it was.

increased spending doesn't mean increased quality
its pretty much the same pool of players to choose from, theyre just paying more for them

[genome]

infl8ion

To be honest, if you put the 106 side in this year's league, they'd probably do as well.

[Ian Royal]

We're definitely not shit. We have some substantial weaknesses, but we're very far from shit. We also are rather unlikely to stay in the top six, and talking about us being 5th is rather disingenuous as we're only there on the back of the last result, having been in 8th for 5 of the last 8 results. Generally speaking, there are often fairly significant weaknesses in all the teams below the leading pack of 3-5. Just because we're currently 5th doesn't put us in that pack IMO.

[Jagermesiter1871]

I would point out something though, are we shit or do you classify our style of football as unattractive? Because it is currently getting the results to have us 5th in the league, if it's not pretty, it certainly is effective. As for the overall strength of the league, the only thing you can do is compare who we lost to who we gained.

Burnely, Middlesbrough and Hull promoted to Premier League
Charlton, MK Dons and Bolton relegated to League One

Newcastle, Norwich, Villa relegated to Championship
Wigan, Barnsley, Burton promoted to Championship

I look at those team change overs and I would argue the league is actually stronger this season.

I actually don't mind the style of football. I just think that's its fair from coherent and am gobsmacked we aren't hovering around the lower ends of the table.

I can't think of any other year when I've come away from as many games thinking how poor the opposition looked. Take last Saturday, we looked very average but Nottingham Forests finishing looked sub league 2 level and we somehow managed to walk away with a 2:0 win. Brighton, a team who are challenging for the title, looked a very average side with one good player when we played them. That's just off the top of my head but it's been week in week out.


And no it's not down to us making them look poor.

[Jagermesiter1871]

We're definitely not shit. We have some substantial weaknesses, but we're very far from shit. We also are rather unlikely to stay in the top six, and talking about us being 5th is rather disingenuous as we're only there on the back of the last result, having been in 8th for 5 of the last 8 results. Generally speaking, there are often fairly significant weaknesses in all the teams below the leading pack of 3-5. Just because we're currently 5th doesn't put us in that pack IMO.

You mean other than literally being in that pack?

[Ian Royal]

We're definitely not shit. We have some substantial weaknesses, but we're very far from shit. We also are rather unlikely to stay in the top six, and talking about us being 5th is rather disingenuous as we're only there on the back of the last result, having been in 8th for 5 of the last 8 results. Generally speaking, there are often fairly significant weaknesses in all the teams below the leading pack of 3-5. Just because we're currently 5th doesn't put us in that pack IMO.

You mean other than literally being in that pack?

I probably didn't make myself very clear. Most years, there's a few teams who are consistently leading the way. It's still a bit early to have shaken down fully in that regard, but no, I would not say we're in the leading pack. By definition of having spent the vast majority of the first 15 games outside the top six. I don't think the leading pack currently extends to five. Newcastle, Brighton and Norwich would immediately spring to mind as those who've been leading the way consistently. Norwich are having a little slip and Brighton had one a little while ago iirc, whilst Newcastle started slowly.

When I said 3 - 5 it was a reference to the leading pack varying in size depending on the season.

I haven't paid huge attention to the table this early on, because it's not that relevant... I only care where we are, and even that not hugely at this stage. So I'm not sure if Huddersfield have been consistently up there.

[NewCorkSeth]

Add in to that the record spending by Championship clubs this summer and the increasing quality of the league standards and I think its fair to say the league is much stronger than it was.

increased spending doesn't mean increased quality
its pretty much the same pool of players to choose from, theyre just paying more for them

I accept the premise that increased spending guarantees increased quality but it also doesnt mean the opposite.

If you go back and look at all the championship transfers in 05/06 you will see that there is significantly less players signed from outside of the uk and the vast majority of those players signed from outside the uk were free transfers.

Also teams made far fewer permanent transfers regardless of money they had to spend
For example
Derby made 9 million in player sales and only spent 600 thousand on transfer fees
Southampton made 24 million in sales and spent 4 million on fees
Ipswich made 6.5 and spent 1.5
Norwich 13 to 6

The point is teams are now spending more than can be put down to inflation and they are signing players from a wider pool than before.
According to trasfer market the Championship is 52.4% foreign players this season. Do we think it was above 50% in 2005?

[Jagermesiter1871]

Yeah but transfer figures are just a bit of crap proxy for how good the league is as there are so many key other factors, including inflation and diminishing returns, something I think is clearly evident in the Championship this year. Just because more money is spent doesn't actually mean these players are any good, or more importantly actually gel. A good example being us last season. The 05/06 team would have destroyed last seasons squad, despite costing a fraction and being worse on paper.