Newcastle ( A) match thread sponsored by Danny Guthrie

[genome]

A 4-1 defeat to any team in the same league as us, regardless of resources, money spent this season, and size of club etc, is embarrassing and perhaps more importantly, pretty worrying. #wecouldbeintheshit

Christ.

FFS, loads of teams will get beaten by three goals this season. Probably most of them. Should they all be embarrassed?

By that result? Yes. It's a really bad outcome whereby the opposition has put you to the sword. I doubt many fans will leave a 3 goal loss thinking it was ok.

On the contrary. None of the Reading fans defending the team (myself included) are saying it is a decent result or one that we can just chalk off and forget.

It's level of criticism and reactionary stuff that is frustrating (again, not solely directing this at you - just venting). Yeah, we got beaten away at the league favourites early in the season, it's a bad result, but let the new team learn the lessons and grow.

Sheffield Wednesday lost 3-1 to Burton yesterday - do you think they'll be struggling this year? Probably not. There is context to every game, actual reasons for why things happened - you learn the lessons. It's when it starts to happen over an extended period that you should start worrying.

[Royal Ginger]

Geez, I'd grow a thicker skin if I were you.

I was as big a Brian supporter as any, as evidenced by many of my posts defending him and I was gutted and angry when he was sacked - but he's gone - time to move on now. Besides, you have no evidence for your claim. You're just basing things off a gut feeling, whereas looking at the facts it's obvious Newcastle were bankers - as per the prediction thread. We'll see in the future whether your feeling about Stam turns out to be correct, but for now, I'll get behind the boys, and actually give Stam more than 4 games before I pass judgement.

Anyway, the vitriol isn't directed solely at yourself. It's more the fans who, after two results (both away, one against the league favourites) are calling the team a shambles. It needs work, I'm not denying that, we need a centre back and striker.

I'm just bored of knee-jerk reactionary negativity, it's no wonder the team struggle with that kind of atmosphere around.

All noted.

So far i see a team figured out after 45 minutes of football. Have i written Stam off? No. At the point in which we let a 4th goal without a reported change in style am I perturbed at what's going on? Sure I am. Is it ok to still be pissed at McDermott's sacking 3 games after his dismissal, hell yeah it is.

I don't want to grow a thicker skin. Fu*k it but every day at work is long and difficult and i just want to chat (and disagree) about football.

[genome]

Didn't the 4th go in after Stam took a midfielder off and put on a striker?

[royalp-we]

Play well against Brighton and manage to get a result, like we did against Preston, tonight will all be forgotten about.

A bit like we forget about McDermott, until we lose.

You might, I tend to respect ex managers who actually achieved something with Reading.

Oh I have the utmost respect for them. The most successful days in our history.

I just don't bring them up every time we lose a match. thats all I'm saying. Nothing to do with respect.

[Lower West]

Didn't the 4th go in after Stam took a midfielder off and put on a striker?

Evans doesn't have the legs for 90 minutes. .

[Lower West]

I was as big a Brian supporter as any, as evidenced by many of my posts defending him and I was gutted and angry when he was sacked - but he's gone - time to move on now.

This could have been a "Brian" team. Despite the considerable upheaval. Only 3 new faces in the starting line up tonight. With very much the same problems as the last few months of last season. There's no spine to the team.

Praying for reinforcements.

[leon]

Play well against Brighton and manage to get a result, like we did against Preston, tonight will all be forgotten about.

A bit like we forget about McDermott, until we lose.

You might, I tend to respect ex managers who actually achieved something with Reading.

Oh I have the utmost respect for them. The most successful days in our history.

I just don't bring them up every time we lose a match. thats all I'm saying. Nothing to do with respect.

Nor do I. But you said you'd forgotten about him.

[The Royal We]

As our owners are knee jerk and reactionary, I fell that I reserve the right to be the same!
STAM OUT!

[JIM]

And adding to the humility, they go above us on goal difference

[tmesis]

A 4-1 defeat to any team in the same league as us, regardless of resources, money spent this season, and size of club etc, is embarrassing and perhaps more importantly, pretty worrying. #wecouldbeintheshit

Christ.

FFS, loads of teams will get beaten by three goals this season. Probably most of them. Should they all be embarrassed?

By that result? Yes. It's a really bad outcome whereby the opposition has put you to the sword. I doubt many fans will leave a 3 goal loss thinking it was ok.

No, but not every fan is bi-polar enough to think the only possible reactions to a 1-4 defeat are to think it's fine, or see it as some kind of humiliation.

[Brosef Stalin]

As our owners are knee jerk and reactionary, I fell that I reserve the right to be the same!
STAM OUT!

'greed

[Ian Royal]

I don't like that McDermott was sacked and feel that the team would be more stable and less susceptible to a large defeat at this point in the season.

Why?

There was nothing from last season that suggested he was steadying the ship in any way. We were actually getting worse, and the players didn't look like they cared.

Remind me how many three goal defeats we suffered under McDermott last season. The loanees were the ones who were lacklustre for the most part, they left. Personally, I have every confidence that McDermott would have identified our weak spots and done enough to see us midtable, building on what he'd learnt in the preceding six months and moving us forward at each step. McDermott was also in charge for the only defender we've signed. It would have been nice to have a manager who knew the squad, knew the division and has a record of performance.

That is of course all moot. We made a stupid change and now Stam has to get 18 months no matter what. It is way too early to start having a temper tantrum obviously, the season is three league games old. But it's been a predictably disappointing start and we're still lacking the defensive strengthening we so obviously needed, as well as the goalscorer we've been crying out for since Long (LOLZ) left. It was a blow that Stam had to deal with losing our two best midfielders. But I can't help but think the apparent focus on a 4-3-3 with two very wide forwards (apparently) leaves our attack somewhat isolated. On top of that we have a rather powderpuff midfield with Swift, Williams and Evans. Hopefully we buy a centreback and bring Quinn and VDB into midfield to harden things up, making ourselves hard to beat.

I fear that a new right back, left back, centreback and striker is too much to hope for after what we've already done, so it's clearly a three window rebuild job. Which means the same person has to be in charge for those three windows.

[RoyalBlue]

I don't like that McDermott was sacked and feel that the team would be more stable and less susceptible to a large defeat at this point in the season.

Why?

There was nothing from last season that suggested he was steadying the ship in any way. We were actually getting worse, and the players didn't look like they cared.

Remind me how many three goal defeats we suffered under McDermott last season. The loanees were the ones who were lacklustre for the most part, they left. Personally, I have every confidence that McDermott would have identified our weak spots and done enough to see us midtable, building on what he'd learnt in the preceding six months and moving us forward at each step. McDermott was also in charge for the only defender we've signed. It would have been nice to have a manager who knew the squad, knew the division and has a record of performance.

.

A record of dire performances and results during his second stay. His strength is getting spirit and fight into teams, getting average players to perform above their normal level. He did none of that last time around and ended up looking completely lost and clueless (whatever else might have been to blame, that was the end result). Whether or not the appointment of Jaap was the right move, IMO the departure of Brian was.

[XctRoy]

For upcoming match against Brighton you should check out Royals Stream for live broadcast. They usually broadcast all Reading matches! Go Royals!

[George_]

IN for people saying promotion is on the cards if we beat Brighton on Saturday.

Yeah obviously annoying we lost last night and the scoreline of it, but the players are still adjusting to a new system which Jaap has said from the start will take time. We had the hardest start out of anyone in the league (based on league positions last season) and it was never going to be a quick start.

Not judging the team until after deadline day. New CDM will be announced today & the club will still be working on new signings, hopefully a left back, centre back and a striker.

One big thing that has annoyed me about Jaap so far is his lack of subs. Last night the 1st sub was at 3-1 down after 79 minutes. Hardly going to change the game or make much of an impact.

[BR2]

People going on about players needing to learn a system or method, as if we had gone 3 at the back or something more radical, strikes me as a bit odd.

As I see it we are playing a straightforward 4-3-3 the trouble is that there is not much in terms of tackling by the midfield 3 let alone the 2 front wide players.
Also, apart from under Brian, we have tried to play out from the back under Rodgers,Nigel and Clarke so this is nothing new.

I think it is more about the players than the system and to have two decent ball-players in midfield in Swift and Evans without a Sidwell type foraging, tackling or even water-carrying means that we are vulnerable through the middle-hopefully today's new signing or VDB will solve that issue and the loose cannon Williams may make way.

We still have 2 full-backs who are badly lacking defensively , a dodgy keeper and no striker.
IMHO it is the personnel and not the system that is the biggest issue.

[Ian Royal]

[quote="BR2"]People going on about players needing to learn a system or method, as if we had gone 3 at the back or something more radical, strikes me as a bit odd.

As I see it we are playing a straightforward 4-3-3 the trouble is that there is not much in terms of tackling by the midfield 3 let alone the 2 front wide players.
Also, apart from under Brian, we have tried to play out from the back under Rodgers,Nigel and Clarke so this is nothing new.

I think it is more about the players than the system and to have two decent ball-players in midfield in Swift and Evans without a Sidwell type foraging, tackling or even water-carrying means that we are vulnerable through the middle-hopefully today's new signing or VDB will solve that issue and the loose cannon Williams may make way.

We still have 2 full-backs who are badly lacking defensively , a dodgy keeper and no striker.
IMHO it is the personnel and not the system that is the biggest issue.[/quotes]
i think you're failing to appreciate the fundamental differences in approach required to play a patient passing game and pacey direct game.

One involves moving the ball forward quickly along very specific routes, usually to the flanks and trying to exploit space at turnovers etc.

The other involves luring teams into coming out of position and leaving gaps to exploit across the whole pitch. That requires much greater autonomy and player awareness amplys decision making. It requires the whole team to be ready to shift up a gear or two at any given moment to catch the opposition flat footed and it requires much better movement and control.

It's far easier to play pacey and direct, but the rewards aren't as great for doing it well and even when you do it well it's easier to counter.

Conversely it's hard to play the passing game well, doing it badly is terrible but doing it well brings greater rewards and when you do it well it's far harder to counter.

So far we've been doig it badly and with an unbalanced squad. And we've sacked yhe manager in charge before theyve had the backing and time to bed it in properly.

We don't really have the players to be direct now and changing back would undermine everything the academy has been working on for 10 years, destroying Dolans legacy.

[royalp-we]

Against a very very poor team...............

Give me strength, they've spent £40m and just needed to find their feet. Multitude of talent in that squad.

Exactly this. Newcastle should be hitting the ground running.

Stam needs time. At least 10 games before we can judge him.

And those bleating on about the CB/ST situation. The club have said they are trying to get players in still.

It isn't Football manager or FIFA and we haven't got £m's to splash.

We move on. Mad Stad comforts in three days to get us all back on side.

Bump. Some of the comments on this thread

Buzzing for the next match. I bloody love this club. Best club to support with the best team board on the planet