Rival Watch

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Horsham Royal
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Re: Rival Watch

by Horsham Royal » 18 Jan 2022 01:14

genome On Derby. I understand part of the issue is the ongoing legal proceedings with Middlesbrough and Wycombe are stopping buyers coming forward because they don’t want to be saddle with a big liability if Derby lose the court cases.

I can understand Wycombe’s stance to an extent as they went down at their expense, but what beef do Middlesbrough have exactly?

Derby got into the play offs ahead of Boro ... Boro suing on the basis they "may" have got promoted to the PL.
Would think the best they could hope for would be Derby's play off revenue.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Simmops » 18 Jan 2022 06:51

Horsham Royal
genome On Derby. I understand part of the issue is the ongoing legal proceedings with Middlesbrough and Wycombe are stopping buyers coming forward because they don’t want to be saddle with a big liability if Derby lose the court cases.

I can understand Wycombe’s stance to an extent as they went down at their expense, but what beef do Middlesbrough have exactly?

Derby got into the play offs ahead of Boro ... Boro suing on the basis they "may" have got promoted to the PL.
Would think the best they could hope for would be Derby's play off revenue.


How frivolous

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 18 Jan 2022 08:35

Simmops
Horsham Royal
genome On Derby. I understand part of the issue is the ongoing legal proceedings with Middlesbrough and Wycombe are stopping buyers coming forward because they don’t want to be saddle with a big liability if Derby lose the court cases.

I can understand Wycombe’s stance to an extent as they went down at their expense, but what beef do Middlesbrough have exactly?

Derby got into the play offs ahead of Boro ... Boro suing on the basis they "may" have got promoted to the PL.
Would think the best they could hope for would be Derby's play off revenue.


How frivolous


It is but they (and Wycombe) feel it has merit - they aren't going to waste time and money and something they don't think would stand a chance in court.

Their view is Derby cheated and that cheating cost them a chance at promotion either as a result of having better players than they could actually afford or that they should have been punished earlier but they submitted false accounts.

It is potentially the latter that they are attacking but I'm not sure if the accounts were false in terms of law or just the EFL rules, if just the latter then less solid ground I would say.

There is precident of course for a club suing another for lost revenue. Sheff Utd got money out of West Ham after the latter were found to have broken the rules to sign Tevez/Mascherano - the signings (and performances) of whom saved West Ham from the drop and condemned Sheffield U when it turned out they were signed in breach of the rules at the time.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Simmops » 18 Jan 2022 08:52

Stranded
Simmops
Horsham Royal Derby got into the play offs ahead of Boro ... Boro suing on the basis they "may" have got promoted to the PL.
Would think the best they could hope for would be Derby's play off revenue.


How frivolous


It is but they (and Wycombe) feel it has merit - they aren't going to waste time and money and something they don't think would stand a chance in court.

Their view is Derby cheated and that cheating cost them a chance at promotion either as a result of having better players than they could actually afford or that they should have been punished earlier but they submitted false accounts.

It is potentially the latter that they are attacking but I'm not sure if the accounts were false in terms of law or just the EFL rules, if just the latter then less solid ground I would say.

There is precident of course for a club suing another for lost revenue. Sheff Utd got money out of West Ham after the latter were found to have broken the rules to sign Tevez/Mascherano - the signings (and performances) of whom saved West Ham from the drop and condemned Sheffield U when it turned out they were signed in breach of the rules at the time.


Wycombe one i understand and feel sorry for

Although the fact that Derby are giving it a go this season and have a chance of staying up is fair enough

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Re: Rival Watch

by Simmops » 18 Jan 2022 08:52

Stranded
Simmops
Horsham Royal Derby got into the play offs ahead of Boro ... Boro suing on the basis they "may" have got promoted to the PL.
Would think the best they could hope for would be Derby's play off revenue.


How frivolous


It is but they (and Wycombe) feel it has merit - they aren't going to waste time and money and something they don't think would stand a chance in court.

Their view is Derby cheated and that cheating cost them a chance at promotion either as a result of having better players than they could actually afford or that they should have been punished earlier but they submitted false accounts.

It is potentially the latter that they are attacking but I'm not sure if the accounts were false in terms of law or just the EFL rules, if just the latter then less solid ground I would say.

There is precident of course for a club suing another for lost revenue. Sheff Utd got money out of West Ham after the latter were found to have broken the rules to sign Tevez/Mascherano - the signings (and performances) of whom saved West Ham from the drop and condemned Sheffield U when it turned out they were signed in breach of the rules at the time.


Wycombe one i understand and feel sorry for

Although the fact that Derby are giving it a go this season and have a chance of staying up is fair enough

Middlesbrough one makes no sense because Derby didn't go up anyway :|


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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 18 Jan 2022 09:05

I think a lot of whether or not Derby can stay up will rely on what happens in this window, if they still end up losing a couple more key players without being able to bring fresh faces in to replace them then I can't see them staying up.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 18 Jan 2022 09:14

YorkshireRoyal99 I think a lot of whether or not Derby can stay up will rely on what happens in this window, if they still end up losing a couple more key players without being able to bring fresh faces in to replace them then I can't see them staying up.


yeah same, running out of time to bring players in you'd think. Going to be very difficult to persuade people to come in with their current state, and questions over Rooney. depending on how the admin goes, they may have to lose a couple of players on the cheap as well

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 18 Jan 2022 09:16

Hound
YorkshireRoyal99 I think a lot of whether or not Derby can stay up will rely on what happens in this window, if they still end up losing a couple more key players without being able to bring fresh faces in to replace them then I can't see them staying up.


yeah same, running out of time to bring players in you'd think. Going to be very difficult to persuade people to come in with their current state, and questions over Rooney. depending on how the admin goes, they may have to lose a couple of players on the cheap as well


They have just lost Shinnie to Wigan for a reported £50k fee, an experienced campaigner in their midfield, and they are also under a fresh embargo that does not allow them to bring in permanent signings this window, so they are restricted to just loans, probably with very little to no part of the wages being paid by Derby as well.

There were reports saying Derby had until February 1st to prove that they can continue to operate until the end of the campaign otherwise they'd face expulsion from the league, although I haven't seen much more of that since the weekend.

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Re: Rival Watch

by WestYorksRoyal » 18 Jan 2022 13:17

Obviously I'd hate to see any club go bust, but if it does happen, would it help us? If all their results are expunged, we only lose 1 point


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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 18 Jan 2022 13:27

WestYorksRoyal Obviously I'd hate to see any club go bust, but if it does happen, would it help us? If all their results are expunged, we only lose 1 point


yes it would. a) that they would obvs not be able to go above us, and b) Barnsley and Peterborough would lose 3 points

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hendo » 18 Jan 2022 13:30

Hound
WestYorksRoyal Obviously I'd hate to see any club go bust, but if it does happen, would it help us? If all their results are expunged, we only lose 1 point


yes it would. a) that they would obvs not be able to go above us, and b) Barnsley and Peterborough would lose 3 points


Would they still relegate 3 clubs, or just 2? If still 3, that would still put us in a precarious position.

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Re: Rival Watch

by paultheroyal » 18 Jan 2022 13:31

Hendo
Hound
WestYorksRoyal Obviously I'd hate to see any club go bust, but if it does happen, would it help us? If all their results are expunged, we only lose 1 point


yes it would. a) that they would obvs not be able to go above us, and b) Barnsley and Peterborough would lose 3 points


Would they still relegate 3 clubs, or just 2? If still 3, that would still put us in a precarious position.



Just 2 would go down

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Re: Rival Watch

by paultheroyal » 18 Jan 2022 13:32

It is reading like terrible news for Derby - often these things are blown up to made worse than it is, but they could really go, couldnt they?


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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 18 Jan 2022 13:34

Just 2 clubs would go down and more teams around us lose points as well, other than Hull (and Cardiff I think?). It would also put clubs like Birmingham in a more awkward situation as they have beaten Derby this season, although I don't think anybody above Hull would go down if only 2 clubs went down.

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Re: Rival Watch

by WestYorksRoyal » 18 Jan 2022 13:38

paultheroyal It is reading like terrible news for Derby - often these things are blown up to made worse than it is, but they could really go, couldnt they?
If they don't have funds to survive the season, what else can the EFL do? At the start of this, I presumed that someone would be willing to pick them up on the cheap and keep them going, but maybe it's just too much of a mess.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 18 Jan 2022 13:55

I've not read in loads of depth, but it seems the real issue is the claims from Boro and Wycombe, as they have no idea what the new owners may be liable for, if anything. Very difficult to sell the club on that basis

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 18 Jan 2022 14:05

Hound I've not read in loads of depth, but it seems the real issue is the claims from Boro and Wycombe, as they have no idea what the new owners may be liable for, if anything. Very difficult to sell the club on that basis

Yeah, but for that I think they'd be damaged but ultimately fine.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 18 Jan 2022 15:50

Hound I've not read in loads of depth, but it seems the real issue is the claims from Boro and Wycombe, as they have no idea what the new owners may be liable for, if anything. Very difficult to sell the club on that basis


Boro released a statement saying their claim has been ongoing since 2019 but Derby have prolonged it, so have no intention of dropping it but reached out to the Admin in November and have been ignored.

Almost feels as though the old owner new there was a strong case to answer and thought administration would kill it.

As Boro said, if there is no merit to the case then any new owner should have no qualms taking over as it will be thrown out.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 18 Jan 2022 15:53

Stranded
Hound I've not read in loads of depth, but it seems the real issue is the claims from Boro and Wycombe, as they have no idea what the new owners may be liable for, if anything. Very difficult to sell the club on that basis


Boro released a statement saying their claim has been ongoing since 2019 but Derby have prolonged it, so have no intention of dropping it but reached out to the Admin in November and have been ignored.

Almost feels as though the old owner new there was a strong case to answer and thought administration would kill it.

As Boro said, if there is no merit to the case then any new owner should have no qualms taking over as it will be thrown out.


tbh don't know the rights and wrongs, but I do think Derby would be quite lucky to avoid penalty from Wycombe's claim at the least. Can't see it being resolved in the next 2 weeks or so

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Re: Rival Watch

by genome » 18 Jan 2022 16:44

Surely the defence is just "well, you could've won a couple more matches over the course of a 46 game season lads"

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