BFTG - Stevenage

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peterroyal76
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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by peterroyal76 » 08 Jan 2018 20:11

leon And I don't get this constant criticism of Gunter - yes he's got his faults but if he was Bergomi he'd be playing for INTER.



Sorry!

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leon
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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by leon » 08 Jan 2018 20:26

peterroyal76
leon And I don't get this constant criticism of Gunter - yes he's got his faults but if he was Bergomi he'd be playing for INTER.



Sorry!

Same City :wink:

peterroyal76
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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by peterroyal76 » 08 Jan 2018 20:28

I don’t get all this booing of players although if you want to boo that’s fine by me. For me to boo, it would have to be for players not trying and I can’t think of any that haven’t really put it in during a game. If a player is shit that’s not his fault that’s down to the boss putting him in. Sometimes players will just have a poor game it’s one of those things.
At the moment the players are stuck in the middle, the upset is with the boss so booing the players will neither help or reach the correct target. Boo Stam if you want, but make sure everyone knows where it’s directed.
I don’t mind losing, I don’t mind being shit, I do mind being bored silly though.

The mother in law is coming around this Saturday so I’ll probably see you at Hull!

peterroyal76
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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by peterroyal76 » 08 Jan 2018 20:29

leon
peterroyal76
leon And I don't get this constant criticism of Gunter - yes he's got his faults but if he was Bergomi he'd be playing for INTER.



Sorry!

Same City :wink:


I did have to google it though just to make sure!

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Longhorn1970 » 08 Jan 2018 20:43

peterroyal76 I don’t get all this booing of players although if you want to boo that’s fine by me. For me to boo, it would have to be for players not trying and I can’t think of any that haven’t really put it in during a game. If a player is shit that’s not his fault that’s down to the boss putting him in. Sometimes players will just have a poor game it’s one of those things.
At the moment the players are stuck in the middle, the upset is with the boss so booing the players will neither help or reach the correct target. Boo Stam if you want, but make sure everyone knows where it’s directed.
I don’t mind losing, I don’t mind being shit, I do mind being bored silly though.

The mother in law is coming around this Saturday so I’ll probably see you at Hull!


I'm up for new ideas, but I don't think it matters how the fans communicate with Stam he is not for changing. He's shown his arrogance and disrespect towards the fans. His "total football" probably worked for Ajax U21's in a weak Dutch league but its "total failure" here ...


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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by The Royal Forester » 08 Jan 2018 20:44

FiNeRaIn
Snowflake Royal
FiNeRaIn
Who is making that comparison other than you? We were being compared to everyone else in the top few divisions and we were ranked something like 39th or 40th. Even many teams below us in the football league have won the top division as well as the cups. On history alone we are absolutely tiny in the overall story of English football. So I ask what exactly have we been spoilt by? I don't consider 4 play-off final defeats and 3 years in the prem being spoilt, especially when you look at all the clubs around us and what they have achieved. We had a couple of years of good football and won a promotion under Coppell, that was as good as it got.

But that's comparing the entire history isn't it. It's not a measure of recent success. And who cares how successful we are to other clubs, most of us aren't going to switch.

Fact is, the last 15 years have been the best in our history. By miles.


They have, no one disputes that. But we haven't been "spoilt" by any stretch. Look at how many teams did what we did and didn't fail horribly right after brief success. Burnley, Leicester, Stoke, West Brom, Bournemouth, [/u[u]]Southampton, Palace, Watford and Swansea are all teams who went up within or around the period we did and have stayed relevant and had good success. Some might yet fall back down to the championship but they've had good runs. We went up, finished 8 and were promptly relegated because of a lack of investment. The second time we went up the club did exactly the same thing and the rest is history. We've done well recently considering our history prior to Coppell but in the grand scheme of things and compared to many other clubs its really nothing to write home about. We have also probably got the worst playoff record in history, its what, 0/8 now? I'd call that long term suffering to be honest. We aren't as bad as a lot of clubs below us, we are not as good as many above us, certainly not spoilt.

Overall the last 15 years or so have been better than our previous existence but expectations along with pricing changes. We are battling relegation to league one after squandering around 15 million on players that should have cemented us in the playoffs this season, people have a right to complain about it. Factoring in a few Coppell years and telling people to stop complaining now because of what we did 10 years ago is kind of asinine.

On the other hand, Birmingham ,Sunderland, Sheffield Utd., Derby, Hull City, Wolves, Wigan, QPR have all been promoted and relegated as well as Portsmouth and Bolton Wanderers were relegated during this period. Yes, some may be promoted this season, but many are in a far worse position than us. So as far as I am concerned we are still in the "Glory Years" of Reading FC. Compared to many other clubs it's really IS something to write home about.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Longhorn1970 » 08 Jan 2018 20:49

The Royal Forester
FiNeRaIn
Snowflake Royal But that's comparing the entire history isn't it. It's not a measure of recent success. And who cares how successful we are to other clubs, most of us aren't going to switch.

Fact is, the last 15 years have been the best in our history. By miles.


They have, no one disputes that. But we haven't been "spoilt" by any stretch. Look at how many teams did what we did and didn't fail horribly right after brief success. Burnley, Leicester, Stoke, West Brom, Bournemouth, [/u[u]]Southampton, Palace, Watford and Swansea are all teams who went up within or around the period we did and have stayed relevant and had good success. Some might yet fall back down to the championship but they've had good runs. We went up, finished 8 and were promptly relegated because of a lack of investment. The second time we went up the club did exactly the same thing and the rest is history. We've done well recently considering our history prior to Coppell but in the grand scheme of things and compared to many other clubs its really nothing to write home about. We have also probably got the worst playoff record in history, its what, 0/8 now? I'd call that long term suffering to be honest. We aren't as bad as a lot of clubs below us, we are not as good as many above us, certainly not spoilt.

Overall the last 15 years or so have been better than our previous existence but expectations along with pricing changes. We are battling relegation to league one after squandering around 15 million on players that should have cemented us in the playoffs this season, people have a right to complain about it. Factoring in a few Coppell years and telling people to stop complaining now because of what we did 10 years ago is kind of asinine.

On the other hand, Birmingham ,Sunderland, Sheffield Utd., Derby, Hull City, Wolves, Wigan, QPR have all been promoted and relegated as well as Portsmouth and Bolton Wanderers were relegated during this period. Yes, some may be promoted this season, but many are in a far worse position than us. So as far as I am concerned we are still in the "Glory Years" of Reading FC. Compared to many other clubs it's really IS something to write home about.


It's also some of the worst football I've seen in recent memory ..

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by The Royal Forester » 08 Jan 2018 21:00

Longhorn1970
The Royal Forester
FiNeRaIn
They have, no one disputes that. But we haven't been "spoilt" by any stretch. Look at how many teams did what we did and didn't fail horribly right after brief success. Burnley, Leicester, Stoke, West Brom, Bournemouth, [/u[u]]Southampton, Palace, Watford and Swansea are all teams who went up within or around the period we did and have stayed relevant and had good success. Some might yet fall back down to the championship but they've had good runs. We went up, finished 8 and were promptly relegated because of a lack of investment. The second time we went up the club did exactly the same thing and the rest is history. We've done well recently considering our history prior to Coppell but in the grand scheme of things and compared to many other clubs its really nothing to write home about. We have also probably got the worst playoff record in history, its what, 0/8 now? I'd call that long term suffering to be honest. We aren't as bad as a lot of clubs below us, we are not as good as many above us, certainly not spoilt.

Overall the last 15 years or so have been better than our previous existence but expectations along with pricing changes. We are battling relegation to league one after squandering around 15 million on players that should have cemented us in the playoffs this season, people have a right to complain about it. Factoring in a few Coppell years and telling people to stop complaining now because of what we did 10 years ago is kind of asinine.

On the other hand, Birmingham ,Sunderland, Sheffield Utd., Derby, Hull City, Wolves, Wigan, QPR have all been promoted and relegated as well as Portsmouth and Bolton Wanderers were relegated during this period. Yes, some may be promoted this season, but many are in a far worse position than us. So as far as I am concerned we are still in the "Glory Years" of Reading FC. Compared to many other clubs it's really IS something to write home about.


It's also some of the worst football I've seen in recent memory ..

Maybe it is, but this exchange of views is not about the quality of the football, but how we have been spoilt by the success of the club during our recent history.

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Zip
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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Zip » 08 Jan 2018 21:10

Fighting relegation from the second tier is no cause for celebration. We have had a golden period but even that has been relatively modest. Even Swindon and Oxford have managed to win the League Cup in the past. Our history pre John Madejski was one of non achievement for the most part.


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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by TiagoIlori » 08 Jan 2018 21:27

The Royal Forester
FiNeRaIn
Snowflake Royal But that's comparing the entire history isn't it. It's not a measure of recent success. And who cares how successful we are to other clubs, most of us aren't going to switch.

Fact is, the last 15 years have been the best in our history. By miles.


They have, no one disputes that. But we haven't been "spoilt" by any stretch. Look at how many teams did what we did and didn't fail horribly right after brief success. Burnley, Leicester, Stoke, West Brom, Bournemouth, [/u[u]]Southampton, Palace, Watford and Swansea are all teams who went up within or around the period we did and have stayed relevant and had good success. Some might yet fall back down to the championship but they've had good runs. We went up, finished 8 and were promptly relegated because of a lack of investment. The second time we went up the club did exactly the same thing and the rest is history. We've done well recently considering our history prior to Coppell but in the grand scheme of things and compared to many other clubs its really nothing to write home about. We have also probably got the worst playoff record in history, its what, 0/8 now? I'd call that long term suffering to be honest. We aren't as bad as a lot of clubs below us, we are not as good as many above us, certainly not spoilt.

Overall the last 15 years or so have been better than our previous existence but expectations along with pricing changes. We are battling relegation to league one after squandering around 15 million on players that should have cemented us in the playoffs this season, people have a right to complain about it. Factoring in a few Coppell years and telling people to stop complaining now because of what we did 10 years ago is kind of asinine.

On the other hand, Birmingham ,Sunderland, Sheffield Utd., Derby, Hull City, Wolves, Wigan, QPR have all been promoted and relegated as well as Portsmouth and Bolton Wanderers were relegated during this period. Yes, some may be promoted this season, but many are in a far worse position than us. So as far as I am concerned we are still in the "Glory Years" of Reading FC. Compared to many other clubs it's really IS something to write home about.

It’s justice for the horrible years our older fans had to go through. But until we win a major trophy I refuse to believe we’ve been spoiled, we’ve achieved oxf*rd all in the neutral eye

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Top Flight » 08 Jan 2018 23:35

Personally, I don't really see any problem with the fans taking the p*ss out of the players. It sounds like it was all banter. Nothing vulgar, racist, homophobic or abusive. Try watching a non league game and it is 100 times worse. Those players earn nothing compared to our players and they can take the banter on the chin no problem.

I guess our current bunch of players are the so called "snowflake" generation. And Jaap Stam is acting like the biggest snowflake manager that we have ever had taking offence at such triviality. Very surprising coming from Stam. I thought he was a leader of men. Where is the fight? Where is the passion? Where is the intensity? Show us what your made of instead of crying and sulking in the corner.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by double d » 09 Jan 2018 05:37

Lee Johnson: From record losing streaks to Carabao Cup semi-finals - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42580152

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Maneki Neko
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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Maneki Neko » 09 Jan 2018 09:41

FiNeRaIn
Snowflake Royal
FiNeRaIn
Who is making that comparison other than you? We were being compared to everyone else in the top few divisions and we were ranked something like 39th or 40th. Even many teams below us in the football league have won the top division as well as the cups. On history alone we are absolutely tiny in the overall story of English football. So I ask what exactly have we been spoilt by? I don't consider 4 play-off final defeats and 3 years in the prem being spoilt, especially when you look at all the clubs around us and what they have achieved. We had a couple of years of good football and won a promotion under Coppell, that was as good as it got.

But that's comparing the entire history isn't it. It's not a measure of recent success. And who cares how successful we are to other clubs, most of us aren't going to switch.

Fact is, the last 15 years have been the best in our history. By miles.


They have, no one disputes that. We've done well recently considering our history prior to Coppell but in the grand scheme of things . We aren't as bad as a lot of clubs below us, we are not as good as many above us, .
Overall the last 15 years or so have been better than our previous existence .


that's being spoilt.

I'd call that long term suffering to be honest


long term suffering IS what being a reading fan IS.


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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Maneki Neko » 09 Jan 2018 09:43

Longhorn1970
Maneki Neko
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Club will still be here after Stam is gone. Whether he goes because he is pushed, or leaves under his own accord.

But for me, it's not the club that's a joke, it's some of its supporters.

I don't want my club to be one of those with hyprocitical supporters who demand loyalty from managers and players, but turn on them as soon as things aren't working, without giving them an opportunity to put stuff right.

I don't want my club to be one of those with supporters who think they are somehow entitled to success. And perfection. Not just winning, but winning in the "right" way. With players who will always make the right decisions, and never have an off day.

This isn't about Stam.

This is about the abuse Leigertwood, for instance, got, the year after his goal got us promoted, because some supporters decided he wasn't good enough any more. Hero to zero in a couple of months.

This is about "fans" audibly groaning if the ball isn't kicked long, but then audibly groaning if it does go long, and it isn't won. You have a player on the ball, with opposition players closing in, already under pressure because he doesn't have many options to pass to - and he's being jeered by his own supporters. How can anybody think that's helpful?

This is about #McDermottOut tweets barely a month after he'd started.

This is about people saying Clarke should leave, and then calling him a snake because he asked for permission to talk to another club

This is about fans claiming players aren't trying or don't care, when there is clear evidence that they very much do.

This is about fans who'll be smarming up to a player to get a selfie if they happened to meet them in Tescos, but will call them embarrassing, and giving it large from the safety of the stand if they make a mistake in a game. Because none of them have never made a mistake in their own work. Right.

I was at the West Brom FA Cup game at the Mad Stad when one of their supporters threw a coin that hit Chris Brunt, because he was so angry that his club lost to little old Reading. That guy had played hundreds of games for that club, and that's the way they rewarded his loyalty. Did they think he wanted to lose?

It's that kind of ignorant entitled childish behaviour that I hate. Sneering at players because they are talented, and work hard, and do something that the supporters aren't able to do, and as a result get a lot of money for it - somehow that means that the minute things go wrong, it's perfectly ok to abuse their character. Or boo them. Or throw things at them.

I don't want my club to be like that.

We want different things. We think different things are acceptable as supporters. Maybe you see that as "blind support". I don't. I give my reviews of games, and I'm not always kind. I question some players commitment, and skill. I criticise selections and tactics.

What I won't do is hurl abuse at my own team during an actual game.

Bad enough some of the stuff that gets chanted at opposition players. But to be doing it to your own? It's like booing yourself.


^THIS^ is a great post, and expresses exactly how I feel about the club and its support, as well as the concept of booing your own team.

if you want to send a message to the board and the management, send a sternly worded letter/email.


Coppell would have probably been sacked the season we bottled the playoffs in the current climate.
its still one of my proudest memories as a reading fan how, while other relegated clubs demanded and got their managers the sack, we protested to persuade him to stay. I was proud because we were different, we weren't like all those other clubs.
unfortunately, with the new owners, new management, and new fans I worry we are now exactly like all the other clubs.


I'm glad you enjoy the current rubbish served up, many don't ...


This is daft. I detest the current football, and hated it last year. I stopped buying a season ticket and have hardly been this year. im so definitely not happy with the current situation.
that is not mutually exclusive with the views expressed in the quoted post

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Nessa From Eldorado » 09 Jan 2018 12:41

Maneki Neko
if you want to send a message to the board and the management, send a sternly worded letter/email.



This is my favourite post of 2018.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Ascotexgunner » 09 Jan 2018 18:44

The Royal Forester
FiNeRaIn
Snowflake Royal But that's comparing the entire history isn't it. It's not a measure of recent success. And who cares how successful we are to other clubs, most of us aren't going to switch.

Fact is, the last 15 years have been the best in our history. By miles.


They have, no one disputes that. But we haven't been "spoilt" by any stretch. Look at how many teams did what we did and didn't fail horribly right after brief success. Burnley, Leicester, Stoke, West Brom, Bournemouth, [/u[u]]Southampton, Palace, Watford and Swansea are all teams who went up within or around the period we did and have stayed relevant and had good success. Some might yet fall back down to the championship but they've had good runs. We went up, finished 8 and were promptly relegated because of a lack of investment. The second time we went up the club did exactly the same thing and the rest is history. We've done well recently considering our history prior to Coppell but in the grand scheme of things and compared to many other clubs its really nothing to write home about. We have also probably got the worst playoff record in history, its what, 0/8 now? I'd call that long term suffering to be honest. We aren't as bad as a lot of clubs below us, we are not as good as many above us, certainly not spoilt.

Overall the last 15 years or so have been better than our previous existence but expectations along with pricing changes. We are battling relegation to league one after squandering around 15 million on players that should have cemented us in the playoffs this season, people have a right to complain about it. Factoring in a few Coppell years and telling people to stop complaining now because of what we did 10 years ago is kind of asinine.

On the other hand, Birmingham ,Sunderland, Sheffield Utd., Derby, Hull City, Wolves, Wigan, QPR have all been promoted and relegated as well as Portsmouth and Bolton Wanderers were relegated during this period. Yes, some may be promoted this season, but many are in a far worse position than us. So as far as I am concerned we are still in the "Glory Years" of Reading FC. Compared to many other clubs it's really IS something to write home about.


Two of those clubs have won a trophy in recent years......I wouldn't give anything for a League or FA Cup. If we went down a tier having won something it wouldn't be so bad. I'm quite envious of Wigan.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Ascotexgunner » 09 Jan 2018 18:53

Nessa From Eldorado
Maneki Neko
if you want to send a message to the board and the management, send a sternly worded letter/email.



This is my favourite post of 2018.


Had me chuckling. Maybe we could do a Blue Peter type competition on HNA. The best letter gets forwarded to the manager and board. The winner gets a free ticket for the Stevenage game. Second prize gets 2 tickets.

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