BFTG - Stevenage

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Whore Jackie
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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Whore Jackie » 08 Jan 2018 12:10

Brum Royal Just a quick question as I wasn't there, but a lot of the chat on the Facebook mong groups almost immediately after the game was of McShane "doing a Matt Mills" and giving the middle finger to the fans. Yet I've read all through this thread and not seen a single mention of it. I was there for the Matt Mills incident, I saw it, and it was all over the BFTG thread. Similarly the lack of apology from McShane suggests there was no such incident, so where is this idea (from a number of, I assume, unconnected people) actually coming from?


Definitely wasn't a Matt Mills incident. Game ended, handshakes with the opposition, referee and then the players strode off. Joey and Swift were first off and then there seemed to be more of a group with McShane. They didn't even look towards the away fans. That's when the booing started and then someone seemingly had a word with them and they all strode over and vigorously clapped us. Couldn't see originally who had the word, Stam was still some distance away with the ref I think. Not surprised that it was Gunter who intervened. He gave quite a few fans the thumbs-up later on, when he was doing his warm-down.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Maneki Neko » 08 Jan 2018 12:12

muirinho
Old Man Andrews I am all for differing opinions but some of the blind support for Stam is ridiculous. There are so many weak minded people on Twitter who will back Stam no matter what. Jaap could come round their houses and take a dump on their pillow and they'd still worship him.

Same usual supects too. People from STAR scared to upset the club, The Tilehurst End pertrifed to upset anyone by having an opinion just in case it means they won't get free stuff from the club and the same few Twitter Reading fans (everyone knows them) who will constantly moan about "people booing at away games". People boo because the manager is inept and embarassing as are the players. Grow up.

The whole club is a joke.


Club will still be here after Stam is gone. Whether he goes because he is pushed, or leaves under his own accord.

But for me, it's not the club that's a joke, it's some of its supporters.

I don't want my club to be one of those with hyprocitical supporters who demand loyalty from managers and players, but turn on them as soon as things aren't working, without giving them an opportunity to put stuff right.

I don't want my club to be one of those with supporters who think they are somehow entitled to success. And perfection. Not just winning, but winning in the "right" way. With players who will always make the right decisions, and never have an off day.

This isn't about Stam.

This is about the abuse Leigertwood, for instance, got, the year after his goal got us promoted, because some supporters decided he wasn't good enough any more. Hero to zero in a couple of months.

This is about "fans" audibly groaning if the ball isn't kicked long, but then audibly groaning if it does go long, and it isn't won. You have a player on the ball, with opposition players closing in, already under pressure because he doesn't have many options to pass to - and he's being jeered by his own supporters. How can anybody think that's helpful?

This is about #McDermottOut tweets barely a month after he'd started.

This is about people saying Clarke should leave, and then calling him a snake because he asked for permission to talk to another club

This is about fans claiming players aren't trying or don't care, when there is clear evidence that they very much do.

This is about fans who'll be smarming up to a player to get a selfie if they happened to meet them in Tescos, but will call them embarrassing, and giving it large from the safety of the stand if they make a mistake in a game. Because none of them have never made a mistake in their own work. Right.

I was at the West Brom FA Cup game at the Mad Stad when one of their supporters threw a coin that hit Chris Brunt, because he was so angry that his club lost to little old Reading. That guy had played hundreds of games for that club, and that's the way they rewarded his loyalty. Did they think he wanted to lose?

It's that kind of ignorant entitled childish behaviour that I hate. Sneering at players because they are talented, and work hard, and do something that the supporters aren't able to do, and as a result get a lot of money for it - somehow that means that the minute things go wrong, it's perfectly ok to abuse their character. Or boo them. Or throw things at them.

I don't want my club to be like that.

We want different things. We think different things are acceptable as supporters. Maybe you see that as "blind support". I don't. I give my reviews of games, and I'm not always kind. I question some players commitment, and skill. I criticise selections and tactics.

What I won't do is hurl abuse at my own team during an actual game.

Bad enough some of the stuff that gets chanted at opposition players. But to be doing it to your own? It's like booing yourself.


^THIS^ is a great post, and expresses exactly how I feel about the club and its support, as well as the concept of booing your own team.

if you want to send a message to the board and the management, send a sternly worded letter/email.


Coppell would have probably been sacked the season we bottled the playoffs in the current climate.
its still one of my proudest memories as a reading fan how, while other relegated clubs demanded and got their managers the sack, we protested to persuade him to stay. I was proud because we were different, we weren't like all those other clubs.
unfortunately, with the new owners, new management, and new fans I worry we are now exactly like all the other clubs.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Steve_Upper_West » 08 Jan 2018 12:21

Fair play to Gunter (and McShane) for trying to put the record straight - perhaps they should now follow the example of other senior professionals 9 years ago, after that dismal Xmas defeat 4 - 1 away to Plymouth. They apparently had a meeting to clear the air and find a way to save their season. The only trouble (for us now) is they had a new caretaker manager in Brian, who knew what what style of football was required in the Championship and also had a couple of real stars to call upon.... Shane & Glyfi

We're doomed.............. :cry:

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by muirinho » 08 Jan 2018 12:23

Old Man Andrews I am talking about away from the game on social media. The local media, fan websites and certain supporters are not opening their eyes to how bad things are. This notion that if you complain about the garbage we are being served up on the pitch somehow makes you less of a fan is complete and utter nonsense. Being a supporter doesn't mean you cannot show anger and give real opinions. The Tilehurst End for example are so frightened to tell it like it is just because they won't get to get free things from the club it is embarassing. They have a duty to represent the supporters views and they aren't at all. Their editor is a weak individual too frightened to have opinions or listen to the opinions of people he doesn't agree with.

The chanting at games I do not agree with and do not join in. I am not talking about just that. Supporters do have a right to show displeasure though and what you are I think saying is people who pay good money to follow the team all around the country do not have that right?

Is it acceptable to go to a League 2 team and not play on the front foot to try and win the game?

Is it acceptable to not play a striker against a League 2 side?

The answer to the above questions is surely no. How can you expect supporters not to boo? The chanting, the online abuse we totally agree on btw, no need for that at all but I think we are definitely at the stage where the management and the players have to be asked serious questions. As long as it is kept about the football I cannot see the issue.


Fair enough if you weren't talking about in-game chanting or personalised abuse of players.

I will never boo, but I do get people booing after bad performances. They can stay on after the game and wave your Stam Out flags - I wouldn't do it, but I 'm not saying nobody should. The key word being AFTER. Not during. And criticise the performances not the people. Unless it's proper off-the-pitch ridiculousness (e.g., players refusing to play, or being done for assault, or whatever).

I'm not expecting adulation!

But I don't know what you are talking about when it comes to TheTilehurstEnd.

There's been loads of criticism on there. Short of their editor (who by the way has changed this season) turning up to the ground with a flamethrower, I don't know what you are expecting

There's this, complaining about lack of opportunities for our academy players
https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... -fc-royals

This report after the Birmingham game, is certainly not complimentary!
https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... tch-report

This one saying the club shouldn't be afraid to give Stam the boot.
https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... -sack-stam

Plenty more that are critical where those came from. What have you been reading?

double d

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by double d » 08 Jan 2018 12:24

genome That's a cracking post, murinho


One of the best posts ever on here. I agree 100% with him


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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Sutekh » 08 Jan 2018 12:26

My gripe really is with the management not the players

Sometimes though you can’t help the sarcasm and black humour when you’re watching as it just helps brighten things up in an otherwise drab and depressing experience but then only towards the end of the game when the events are mostly unfolded

I do hope that those dedicated few that still have the will to go to Hull on Saturday will support the team at least from the off - you never know it might have a positive effect on the team after all this run has got to change some time

And if you must have a go at the end, aim it at Jaap not the players

Old Man Andrews

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Jan 2018 12:33

Maneki Neko
muirinho
Old Man Andrews I am all for differing opinions but some of the blind support for Stam is ridiculous. There are so many weak minded people on Twitter who will back Stam no matter what. Jaap could come round their houses and take a dump on their pillow and they'd still worship him.

Same usual supects too. People from STAR scared to upset the club, The Tilehurst End pertrifed to upset anyone by having an opinion just in case it means they won't get free stuff from the club and the same few Twitter Reading fans (everyone knows them) who will constantly moan about "people booing at away games". People boo because the manager is inept and embarassing as are the players. Grow up.

The whole club is a joke.


Club will still be here after Stam is gone. Whether he goes because he is pushed, or leaves under his own accord.

But for me, it's not the club that's a joke, it's some of its supporters.

I don't want my club to be one of those with hyprocitical supporters who demand loyalty from managers and players, but turn on them as soon as things aren't working, without giving them an opportunity to put stuff right.

I don't want my club to be one of those with supporters who think they are somehow entitled to success. And perfection. Not just winning, but winning in the "right" way. With players who will always make the right decisions, and never have an off day.

This isn't about Stam.

This is about the abuse Leigertwood, for instance, got, the year after his goal got us promoted, because some supporters decided he wasn't good enough any more. Hero to zero in a couple of months.

This is about "fans" audibly groaning if the ball isn't kicked long, but then audibly groaning if it does go long, and it isn't won. You have a player on the ball, with opposition players closing in, already under pressure because he doesn't have many options to pass to - and he's being jeered by his own supporters. How can anybody think that's helpful?

This is about #McDermottOut tweets barely a month after he'd started.

This is about people saying Clarke should leave, and then calling him a snake because he asked for permission to talk to another club

This is about fans claiming players aren't trying or don't care, when there is clear evidence that they very much do.

This is about fans who'll be smarming up to a player to get a selfie if they happened to meet them in Tescos, but will call them embarrassing, and giving it large from the safety of the stand if they make a mistake in a game. Because none of them have never made a mistake in their own work. Right.

I was at the West Brom FA Cup game at the Mad Stad when one of their supporters threw a coin that hit Chris Brunt, because he was so angry that his club lost to little old Reading. That guy had played hundreds of games for that club, and that's the way they rewarded his loyalty. Did they think he wanted to lose?

It's that kind of ignorant entitled childish behaviour that I hate. Sneering at players because they are talented, and work hard, and do something that the supporters aren't able to do, and as a result get a lot of money for it - somehow that means that the minute things go wrong, it's perfectly ok to abuse their character. Or boo them. Or throw things at them.

I don't want my club to be like that.

We want different things. We think different things are acceptable as supporters. Maybe you see that as "blind support". I don't. I give my reviews of games, and I'm not always kind. I question some players commitment, and skill. I criticise selections and tactics.

What I won't do is hurl abuse at my own team during an actual game.

Bad enough some of the stuff that gets chanted at opposition players. But to be doing it to your own? It's like booing yourself.


^THIS^ is a great post, and expresses exactly how I feel about the club and its support, as well as the concept of booing your own team.

if you want to send a message to the board and the management, send a sternly worded letter/email.


Coppell would have probably been sacked the season we bottled the playoffs in the current climate.
its still one of my proudest memories as a reading fan how, while other relegated clubs demanded and got their managers the sack, we protested to persuade him to stay. I was proud because we were different, we weren't like all those other clubs.
unfortunately, with the new owners, new management, and new fans I worry we are now exactly like all the other clubs.


I understand it is not nice to boo your own team, 99% of the supporters do not want to do this. We all go to games to see the team play and hopefully put in some sort of attempt to win the the game. Can you honestly say that team on Saturday gave everything they could to win that game of football? The answer is no and that is where the anger comes from in my opinion. Nobody who is sensible expects us to win the league or go undefeated or even get into the playoffs. What the supporters of this club and its players have always expected is that we play with hunger and desire and leave everything on the pitch and we just are not doing that at the moment.

If we had gone to Stevenage and been positive and gone to get a win but got hit on the break near the end and lost 1-0 I wouldn't be angry. I would have been happy to see that we had a change in approach would have seen it as a sign that a corner could be turned. What did we get though? As bad of a Reading performance as I can remember and lets be honest, we looked like the League 2 side. For supporters to say "you shouldn't boo" or "we can't sack Jaap he did great last season" shows they either do not go to games or live in the past which is a trait of many Reading fans. It isn't 2005 anymore, Steve isn't coming back. Brian isn't coming back either. The current management are seemingly devoid of ideas, attacking flair and more worringly are so stubborn and arrogant they refuse to change their ways. Clearly the players do not believe in what is being asked of them so something has to give and I firmly believe that should be Stam. Under a more positive and forward thinking manager those players would flourish. We are set up to be a very direct side on paper with the names on the team sheets but we are anything but.

I think a lot of people are mistaking the booing purely to be about the results, it isn't. It is more to do with a lack of trying and a lack of style to our play. A large amount of people have had enough now and should not be shut down by Reading FC supporter accounts on social media or told that they are wrong for wanting change.

Old Man Andrews

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Jan 2018 12:38

Sutekh My gripe really is with the management not the players

Sometimes though you can’t help the sarcasm and black humour when you’re watching as it just helps brighten things up in an otherwise drab and depressing experience but then only towards the end of the game when the events are mostly unfolded

I do hope that those dedicated few that still have the will to go to Hull on Saturday will support the team at least from the off - you never know it might have a positive effect on the team after all this run has got to change some time

And if you must have a go at the end, aim it at Jaap not the players


I agree with this. The players do not have a clue what they are meant to be doing half the time, scared to make a mistake or give the ball away. Look at Jaakola on Saturday, a minute in and he is taking an age over a goal kick because Stevenage have pushed forward and not given us space. Everyone could see he couldn't go short about 20 seconds before he did and it set a really bad tone early on. It's not his fault he is doing that with the goal kicks it's Stam's and his methods.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Longhorn1970 » 08 Jan 2018 14:08

Theroyalbox Once again, Reading sell out an away end/have a big attendance and what do the team do, totally let the fans down. Today was another perfect opportunity to win score some goals come over to the fans at the end and start building a rapport again but unfortunately today just made it worse.

McShane has now not only been shit this season, but p*ssed of the fan base, he made it clear he didn't want to come over and appreciate the fans no matter what Gunter said. Watching Jaap after the game his intentions seemed to always come over and applaud the fans, but credit to Chris Gunter, who has been loyal, consistent and a top top bloke for Reading Football Club.

The situation for the fans is difficult, the footballs uninspiring the results are equally as bad and theres such a distance between the fans and the players, so why shouldn't we boo, sing stupid songs as mentioned before in this thread initially there was good support for the team but after 30 minutes of no shots on target no shots off target and no corners against a very very poor league 2 side, theres only a certain amount that can be taken.


+1


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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Longhorn1970 » 08 Jan 2018 14:10

Old Man Andrews
Sutekh My gripe really is with the management not the players

Sometimes though you can’t help the sarcasm and black humour when you’re watching as it just helps brighten things up in an otherwise drab and depressing experience but then only towards the end of the game when the events are mostly unfolded

I do hope that those dedicated few that still have the will to go to Hull on Saturday will support the team at least from the off - you never know it might have a positive effect on the team after all this run has got to change some time

And if you must have a go at the end, aim it at Jaap not the players


I agree with this. The players do not have a clue what they are meant to be doing half the time, scared to make a mistake or give the ball away. Look at Jaakola on Saturday, a minute in and he is taking an age over a goal kick because Stevenage have pushed forward and not given us space. Everyone could see he couldn't go short about 20 seconds before he did and it set a really bad tone early on. It's not his fault he is doing that with the goal kicks it's Stam's and his methods.


Most sides will watch the Stevenage game and set up against us like this, so Stam needs to wake up and quickly ..

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Maneki Neko » 08 Jan 2018 14:16

I understand it is not nice to boo your own team, 99% of the supporters do not want to do this. We all go to games to see the team play and hopefully put in some sort of attempt to win the the game. Can you honestly say that team on Saturday gave everything they could to win that game of football?


yes. I believe so. if effort/passion levels dip its because their confidence is rock bottom and theyre confused by/disagree with what the manager is telling them to do. no one operates at 100% all th etime, and factors that impact on that are many. But given the above, I think theyre all putting in 100% of what they have to give.


If we had gone to Stevenage and been positive and gone to get a win but got hit on the break near the end and lost 1-0 I wouldn't be angry. I would have been happy to see that we had a change in approach would have seen it as a sign that a corner could be turned. What did we get though? As bad of a Reading performance as I can remember and lets be honest, we looked like the League 2 side.


that's literally how weve looked in almost every cup game against lower league opposition in my memory. tbf

For supporters to say "you shouldn't boo" .


Booing/piss taking during a game is never going to have a positive impact on the players confidence, effort or commitment.so I just don't see any point in it.
after the game I guess is fine, its up to you, you pays your money and can do what you like, and I get that its frustrating to travel that far and watch the same old shit, so you feel the need to vent and express that. but again, I just don't see what positive impact its supposed to have, apart from relieving some of your personal stress/angst

or "we can't sack Jaap he did great last season" shows they either do not go to games or live in the past which is a trait of many Reading fansIt isn't 2005 anymore, Steve isn't coming back. Brian isn't coming back either.


sticking with a manager who has achieved things with you, isn't a bad trait, that kind of loyalty and togetherness is what made us different/great in the past. but I agree, I think on balance that Stam probably has to go.(though if it wasn't for the fans and players turning on each other at Stevenage I would probably still be in the "give him a chance to turn it around" camp.)
shows they either do not go to games.

I don't go much any more,no. because this football is dull to watch(and I felt the same last year) and I feel little/no connection with players or club any more.


The current management are seemingly devoid of ideas, attacking flair and more worringly are so stubborn and arrogant they refuse to change their ways.

agreed.
still wouldn't boo the players on the pitch though

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genome
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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by genome » 08 Jan 2018 14:24

lol, Old Man Andrews has been called out

https://twitter.com/BucksRoyal/status/9 ... 9254142976

Old Man Andrews

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Jan 2018 14:29

genome lol, Old Man Andrews has been called out

https://twitter.com/BucksRoyal/status/9 ... 9254142976


He knows what he is. He is completely driven by gaining employment with Reading FC. He has seen his mate Wimb get a gig doing Reading Fan TV and wants in so badly it hurts.


double d

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by double d » 08 Jan 2018 14:45

genome lol, Old Man Andrews has been called out

https://twitter.com/BucksRoyal/status/9 ... 9254142976


He seems a bit of a mug tbh

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by genome » 08 Jan 2018 14:47

You gonna take this, Simeon?

double d

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by double d » 08 Jan 2018 14:49

Old Man Andrews
genome lol, Old Man Andrews has been called out

https://twitter.com/BucksRoyal/status/9 ... 9254142976


He knows what he is. He is completely driven by gaining employment with Reading FC. He has seen his mate Wimb get a gig doing Reading Fan TV and wants in so badly it hurts.


We dont have reading fan tv do we? Jesus i need to see this

Old Man Andrews

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Jan 2018 14:50

double d
Old Man Andrews
genome lol, Old Man Andrews has been called out

https://twitter.com/BucksRoyal/status/9 ... 9254142976


He knows what he is. He is completely driven by gaining employment with Reading FC. He has seen his mate Wimb get a gig doing Reading Fan TV and wants in so badly it hurts.


We dont have reading fan tv do we? Jesus i need to see this


It is called something else but is essentially that. To be honest it isn't bad at all.

double d

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by double d » 08 Jan 2018 14:51

Old Man Andrews
double d
Old Man Andrews
He knows what he is. He is completely driven by gaining employment with Reading FC. He has seen his mate Wimb get a gig doing Reading Fan TV and wants in so badly it hurts.


We dont have reading fan tv do we? Jesus i need to see this


It is called something else but is essentially that. To be honest it isn't bad at all.


Send me a link. This I need to see.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Dick Habbin's hairdo » 08 Jan 2018 15:08

LUX
blythspartan They want to come and work where I do, as if you can't deliver you're out of the door.


you a postie, Blyth?


Deliveroo?

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Dick Habbin's hairdo » 08 Jan 2018 15:08

LUX
blythspartan They want to come and work where I do, as if you can't deliver you're out of the door.


you a postie, Blyth?


Deliveroo?

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