Stam Gone

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leon
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Re: Stam Gone

by leon » 21 Mar 2018 22:09

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Well, somehow they sold it to Stam after we finished 17th and 19th. :wink:

Amazing to me how many think our porospects suddenly don't look good, when the narrative all along has been how talented the players are, and the one thing holding them all back is now gone. :wink:


Denver think you are pushing your own agenda here.

Nah, I'm pushing 'The players are very talented, Stam is the problem' agenda, which apparently you've never even heard uttered. Or if you have, you didn't acknowledge it. Would have been a simple thing to do, no? Meaningless internet message board, and all. And yes, you are right, I'd say some have ridden the players (see my concession there?)...me being one of them, actually (except you rode me for that, too, as I recall?).

Anyway, I would'nt have expected you to concede a point. In your relatively short time in here you've been in the habit of twisting my words, and then had a giggle about it afterward. You've prolly never agreed with anything I've ever said.

Meanwhile, you've been slapping the backs of the biggest trolls this place has ever seen, and who are 'culpable'for many departures, and when they've said stuff that has already been said a hundred times already by others. Tell ya what, first post tomorrow maybe I'll tell someone they are 'full of shite' (that's it, entire post) and then maybe you can then drool all over me. Adios. :wink:


I don’t really understand this post except that you seem a little upset.

Who are these trolls? Obvs OMA who is Kes.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Hiram K Hackenbacker » 21 Mar 2018 22:13

leon
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Denver think you are pushing your own agenda here.

Nah, I'm pushing 'The players are very talented, Stam is the problem' agenda, which apparently you've never even heard uttered. Or if you have, you didn't acknowledge it. Would have been a simple thing to do, no? Meaningless internet message board, and all. And yes, you are right, I'd say some have ridden the players (see my concession there?)...me being one of them, actually (except you rode me for that, too, as I recall?).

Anyway, I would'nt have expected you to concede a point. In your relatively short time in here you've been in the habit of twisting my words, and then had a giggle about it afterward. You've prolly never agreed with anything I've ever said.

Meanwhile, you've been slapping the backs of the biggest trolls this place has ever seen, and who are 'culpable'for many departures, and when they've said stuff that has already been said a hundred times already by others. Tell ya what, first post tomorrow maybe I'll tell someone they are 'full of shite' (that's it, entire post) and then maybe you can then drool all over me. Adios. :wink:


I don’t really understand this post except that you seem a little upset.

Who are these trolls? Obvs OMA who is Kes.

I agree

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Re: Stam Gone

by Muskrat » 21 Mar 2018 22:18

Denver Royal In your relatively short time in here...


Hmm it may be worth you checking the post counts...

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Re: Stam Gone

by royalp-we » 21 Mar 2018 22:25

Zip
muirinho
Zip
We have seen Gunter racing over to Stam when he scored against Burton.


To be fair, that tells us nothing. Gunter would have hugged his worst enemy after scoring a goal. After some criticism of his celebrations scoring last season against his old club Forest, he admitted he was so excited he didn't know where he was or what he was doing.

OldManAndrews All of those responses written by the players agents or whoever runs their social media accounts.


That is utter bullshit, and all it shows is you don't know what you're talking about. I'll accept that players may either keep quiet or try to be diplomatic in tweets after a manager is gone, regardless of what they think about him, but the Reading players' tweets and Instagrams are very obviously not written by agents/social media managers.

You even see the same grammatical/spelling errors for some of them that they put when they're signing things.

I notice, as an aside, we've seen nothing from Paul McShane. He said in an interview once that he had never trusted any manager he'd played under (although that was a number of years back now). I'd be interested to see what, if anything, he posts.



Yes I noticed McShane had yet to say anything.


As club captain you would imagine he would say something...

There has also been silence from many players who usually tweet etc over the past few months. McShane (nothing since Jan) & Aluko (nothing since Nov) Evans, Swift are just a few that come to mind. They used to regularly tweet fans win lose or draw in the past. There's been silence from many for a while now.

Then there's the likes of Mannone, Blackett, Meite etc. I'd like to know what their thoughts are at this moment in time.
Last edited by royalp-we on 21 Mar 2018 22:31, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Mar 2018 22:27

CountryRoyal Its not a black or white situation. Had he lost the dressing room to the point of animosity, disputes and bust ups? Not to our knowledge with any evidence presented to us. Had he lost the dressing room to the point of players woefully under performing, not carrying out his instructions and not doing enough to avoid the situation? Yes, in my opinion.

The fact is, it is all speculative. We can't use what little we see as confirmation of either argument.

So basically, every manager that ever goes on a protracted poor run 'loses the dressing room'. It's an empty phrase tossed about by mouth breathers who can't come up with any other explanation for poor results. You hear it at every poor run. It's either actually losing the confidence and support of the players, and therefore rare and serious, or it's so dilute and meaningless as to be an utterly pointless criticism.


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Re: Stam Gone

by Denver Royal » 21 Mar 2018 22:30

Muskrat
Denver Royal In your relatively short time in here...


Hmm it may be worth you checking the post counts...


I know, I'm seeing 5k in a little over a year! Scary stuff. How many is that per day? :shock: They say you can have too much of a good thing...but then I never really bought in to that.:wink:

He says 'I don't agree a lot of the time' after I post that I've seen a lot of... 'the players are very talented, the problem is Stam'.

I mean, come on. If he can't acknowledge or concede a point after that, then I can't be bothered, and we'll never agree on anything. How's about 'Yeah, you are right, some people have said that, Denver, valid point there. However, also...'

I mean, how hard is it? Jeepers. Honestly, the amount of mental gymnastics some people will go thru in this place, with life as short as it is, to drag something out and avoid conceding a point is quite unbelievable.
Last edited by Denver Royal on 22 Mar 2018 02:46, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Denver Royal » 21 Mar 2018 22:45

Snowflake Royal
CountryRoyal Its not a black or white situation. Had he lost the dressing room to the point of animosity, disputes and bust ups? Not to our knowledge with any evidence presented to us. Had he lost the dressing room to the point of players woefully under performing, not carrying out his instructions and not doing enough to avoid the situation? Yes, in my opinion.

The fact is, it is all speculative. We can't use what little we see as confirmation of either argument.

So basically, every manager that ever goes on a protracted poor run 'loses the dressing room'. It's an empty phrase tossed about by mouth breathers who can't come up with any other explanation for poor results. You hear it at every poor run. It's either actually losing the confidence and support of the players, and therefore rare and serious, or it's so dilute and meaningless as to be an utterly pointless criticism.

Well, yeah. Kinda agree, really. Lotsa media and fan 'speak' out there, esp today. Wasn't heard as much in yesteryear, right?

I played to a decent level, and I'm sure many others in here did, too (prolly higher than me), yet I can honestly say the manager...whoever it was...some I rated and some I didn't...but it was never really all that instrumental in my personal level of performance. He never really 'lost me' in the dressing room...my main focus was retaining the shirt...and that's really all I could control anyway.

There really weren't that many dramas. Everyone was just fighting for their place, and we all knew it. And the higher the level I played at, the more 'professional' it got, and the less bollox there was. You didn't dare get above your station. You shaped up, period. Obv a manager can influence overall results, and success or otherwise, but not my personal 100% commitment. I'm getting old, but thats mostly what I recall anyway. Can anyone else speak to this in any way?
Last edited by Denver Royal on 21 Mar 2018 23:33, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Stam Gone

by royalp-we » 21 Mar 2018 22:46

Just read that Paul Clement is Neil Clement's brother. Can he play Left back too :?:

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Re: Stam Gone

by Denver Royal » 22 Mar 2018 00:53

.


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Re: Stam Gone

by Hound » 22 Mar 2018 06:47

Denver Royal
Muskrat
Denver Royal In your relatively short time in here...


Hmm it may be worth you checking the post counts...


I know, I'm seeing 5k in a little over a year! Scary stuff. How many is that per day? :shock: They say you can have too much of a good thing...but then I never really bought in to that.:wink:

He says 'I don't agree a lot of the time' after I post that I've seen a lot of... 'the players are very talented, the problem is Stam'.

I mean, come on. If he can't acknowledge or concede a point after that, then I can't be bothered, and we'll never agree on anything. How's about 'Yeah, you are right, some people have said that, Denver, valid point there. However, also...'

I mean, how hard is it? Jeepers. Honestly, the amount of mental gymnastics some people will go thru in this place, with life as short as it is, to drag something out and avoid conceding a point is quite unbelievable.


Denver I’ve no interest in getting into any sort of argument with you, so not going to engage in that nonsense you have posted

Genuinely have no idea wtf you are on about.

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Re: Stam Gone

by tee peg » 22 Mar 2018 07:57

I wonder how many of the injured players will suddenly become fit again? :wink:

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Re: Stam Gone

by BR0B0T » 22 Mar 2018 08:00

Hound I’m certainly not slapping any trolls on the back either - happy to avoid any conversation with the likes of DD, AAA, Dave Royal, Brobot etc wherever possible


wtf?

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Re: Stam Gone

by leon » 22 Mar 2018 08:06

BR0B0T
Hound I’m certainly not slapping any trolls on the back either - happy to avoid any conversation with the likes of DD, AAA, Dave Royal, Brobot etc wherever possible


wtf?


Yeah I saw that. :lol:


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Re: Stam Gone

by WAZZOCK » 22 Mar 2018 08:08

LWJ Those of you who think the negativity was solely on Twitter or this spackerboard are living in cuckoo land. There has been very little support for the club, especially at home, when the going got tough. I attended my first (and probably last) Star AGM in September where we had the pleasure of Jaap Stam being the guest speaker and taking questions from the crowd. The amount of negativity towards him and the team following the success the previous season was astonishing.

In reality we had a number of close games early on which we should have converted (Bristol and Fulham spring to mind) silly mistakes cost us 3 points across those two games, and poor finishing could have given us the maximum from them. Those two results so early on in the season could have changed our season. Or even looking later on in the season; Wolves at home. The only reason we didn't walk away with at least a point is because Ruddy showed us why he was an England goalkeeper during his career. His pointblank save was incredible. Cardiff at home, yeah we choked a two goal lead. We then hit the post with the last kick of the game. 2 inches to the left and we're suddenly top half and on a good bit of form going into the Christmas period. Incidentally we didn't win again until Burton away....... Don't even get me started on the amount of injuries as well. We've probably had the biggest injury list in the Championship throughout the year. People moaned about Stam's team choices we had to make 2 changes every game due to injuries at the beginning of the year!

There have been games where we have been poor and deserved to lose, but there's been a lot of games where we haven't but have lost. Every small decision has gone against us this year, and it's not been helped by the negative oxf*rd calling for #StamOut in September.


Hit the nail on the head here

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Re: Stam Gone

by Hound » 22 Mar 2018 08:55

leon
BR0B0T
Hound I’m certainly not slapping any trolls on the back either - happy to avoid any conversation with the likes of DD, AAA, Dave Royal, Brobot etc wherever possible


wtf?


Yeah I saw that. :lol:


:lol: nice spot

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Re: Stam Gone

by under the tin » 22 Mar 2018 09:07

WAZZOCK
LWJ Those of you who think the negativity was solely on Twitter or this spackerboard are living in cuckoo land. There has been very little support for the club, especially at home, when the going got tough. I attended my first (and probably last) Star AGM in September where we had the pleasure of Jaap Stam being the guest speaker and taking questions from the crowd. The amount of negativity towards him and the team following the success the previous season was astonishing.

In reality we had a number of close games early on which we should have converted (Bristol and Fulham spring to mind) silly mistakes cost us 3 points across those two games, and poor finishing could have given us the maximum from them. Those two results so early on in the season could have changed our season. Or even looking later on in the season; Wolves at home. The only reason we didn't walk away with at least a point is because Ruddy showed us why he was an England goalkeeper during his career. His pointblank save was incredible. Cardiff at home, yeah we choked a two goal lead. We then hit the post with the last kick of the game. 2 inches to the left and we're suddenly top half and on a good bit of form going into the Christmas period. Incidentally we didn't win again until Burton away....... Don't even get me started on the amount of injuries as well. We've probably had the biggest injury list in the Championship throughout the year. People moaned about Stam's team choices we had to make 2 changes every game due to injuries at the beginning of the year!

There have been games where we have been poor and deserved to lose, but there's been a lot of games where we haven't but have lost. Every small decision has gone against us this year, and it's not been helped by the negative oxf*rd calling for #StamOut in September.


Hit the nail on the head here

I beg to differ.
Whilst the stuff on Social media certainly was going on, come match days, within the stadium bowl, apart from a few isolated moans and the odd boos here and there, the assembled crowd was not overtly hostile.
Muted, most certainly: but that was because they were bored sh1tless watching turgid unexciting crap.
Seems to me that those who believe that the reason why the club sits in 20th place right now is because of the fans and some hard luck are the ones in cloud cuckoo land.

How about considering....
A non existent pre season
A muddled incoherent player recruitment/retention strategy
Player confusion caused by constant fiddling with formations/Players
The lack of recruiting a true leader on the pitch.
An inexperienced manager

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Re: Stam Gone

by Royal Rother » 22 Mar 2018 09:10

Snowflake Royal
CountryRoyal Its not a black or white situation. Had he lost the dressing room to the point of animosity, disputes and bust ups? Not to our knowledge with any evidence presented to us. Had he lost the dressing room to the point of players woefully under performing, not carrying out his instructions and not doing enough to avoid the situation? Yes, in my opinion.

The fact is, it is all speculative. We can't use what little we see as confirmation of either argument.

So basically, every manager that ever goes on a protracted poor run 'loses the dressing room'. It's an empty phrase tossed about by mouth breathers who can't come up with any other explanation for poor results.


Mouth breathers?

Most people breath from the orifice they speak out of.

Do you?

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Re: Stam Gone

by Old Man Andrews » 22 Mar 2018 09:12

Great to see the mask has slipped for Denver Royal and he is having a full post Stam breakdown. Lovely stuff.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Woodcote Royal » 22 Mar 2018 09:17

Awayawayaway
Woodcote Royal :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

Whatever division we're in next season, the real nightmare is over. :|

While Chris Gunter may be hiding in a broom cupboard crying his eyes out, I suspect most of the squad are doing cart wheels like the rest of us.

Now is the time to fill those blue seats again and to do our bit to keep us where we belong.

I have no issues with Japp the man and wish him well but this season has been as poor as I can remember and he should have gone months ago.

We need someone fresh until the end of the season and not one of Stam's tried and grossly under achieved coaching team stepping up.

Now looking forward to Good Friday!


Anyone who thinks the real nightmare is over is delusional. We need a team and squad built intelligently, instead of a fat cnut in a tight suit and cheap shades just chucking players in willy nilly. Yes a big problem has been dealt with, but bigger problems are still there in BT and Gourlay.

No manager worth their salt will come here and by not sacking BT, it's obvious that whoever comes in will have to dance to their tune.


I’m not sure how delusional you need to be not to see the following.

Stam had spent the last few months driving this club into the dirt.

For the first time in more than a decade, the team was playing in a half empty stadium as we managed just one win in 18 games.

This was despite a third place finish last season being followed by record summer investment.

Despite having one of the most talented squads in our history, team performances continued to deteriorate throughout the season in a league in which it should have thrived.

While I, too, have my reservations about our CEO and DoF (in part because we still don’t know a lot about them) we still have the same owners who have been prepared to invest heavily in the club (including a loan of £10m before they had been granted permission to buy the club :| ) and we still have the same talented squad along with one of the best academy’s in the country.

Sony Aluko aside, our new owners’ money has been largely well invested regardless of who made those decisions. If it was Stam it means he couldn’t mould the players of his choice into a team that was at least the sum of it’s parts or, if it was the DoF, more of the same please!

While relegation would be a huge blow, we still have the scope to create a very decent Div 1 side in house while off loading those who should have left the Championship through it’s roof rather than the trap door.

All of the above is why the real nightmare is over.

This club is still a very decent
one that just needs a decent manager to realise it’s full potential

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Re: Stam Gone

by Coppells Lost Coat » 22 Mar 2018 09:17

WAZZOCK
LWJ Those of you who think the negativity was solely on Twitter or this spackerboard are living in cuckoo land. There has been very little support for the club, especially at home, when the going got tough. I attended my first (and probably last) Star AGM in September where we had the pleasure of Jaap Stam being the guest speaker and taking questions from the crowd. The amount of negativity towards him and the team following the success the previous season was astonishing.

In reality we had a number of close games early on which we should have converted (Bristol and Fulham spring to mind) silly mistakes cost us 3 points across those two games, and poor finishing could have given us the maximum from them. Those two results so early on in the season could have changed our season. Or even looking later on in the season; Wolves at home. The only reason we didn't walk away with at least a point is because Ruddy showed us why he was an England goalkeeper during his career. His pointblank save was incredible. Cardiff at home, yeah we choked a two goal lead. We then hit the post with the last kick of the game. 2 inches to the left and we're suddenly top half and on a good bit of form going into the Christmas period. Incidentally we didn't win again until Burton away....... Don't even get me started on the amount of injuries as well. We've probably had the biggest injury list in the Championship throughout the year. People moaned about Stam's team choices we had to make 2 changes every game due to injuries at the beginning of the year!

There have been games where we have been poor and deserved to lose, but there's been a lot of games where we haven't but have lost. Every small decision has gone against us this year, and it's not been helped by the negative oxf*rd calling for #StamOut in September.


Hit the nail on the head here


Problem is, Stam never connected with the fans, even when things were going right last season. He probably was not even interested if he was liked or not just wanted to crack on and do his job. He will learn from this and would put good money on him becoming a good manager.
Albeit unforeseen injuries he still had a good pool of players to choose from that most managers would be happy with. Plenty of if buts and maybe's however hiding behind hindsight does not change that most of our problems fall on Stams head.

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