Clement

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Clement in or out

Poll ended at 02 Oct 2018 15:29
Out
35
25%
In
68
49%
Out but in a funny accent
3
2%
Oxf*rd off Maff
17
12%
Ian Royal
16
12%
 
Total votes: 139
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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Sep 2018 21:09

muirinho
Mid Sussex Royal There's a lot being about massive long term contracts on this thread; apart from Moore (recently) and probably Aluko who exactly?

Swift and I believe Kelly were offered extended deals a year ago which were entirely justified based on their performances during the play off season.


Yiadom was given a 4 year contract - bet nobody is complaining about that one.

McCleary got a 3 and a half year contract in January 2017 - but half a season of that was overlapping the contract he already had. So really it was a 3 year contract.

Can't think of anybody else tbh

Edit: Mo Barrow also has a 4 year contract.


It's not just long contracts, it's foolish contracts.

McCleary getting that length of contract with his injury record at that point, which has only got worse, was stupid.
Kermorgant getting an extension before he'd returned fully from injury was stupid.
Moore getting a big new contract is questionable depending on how it affects his wages.
Even Yiadom's is foolish... he just got relegated with Barnsley, he could easily have failed here and we'd be stuck with him.

I don't think we should hand out contracts for four years to anyone on average or above wages, or over the age of 25. Or give anyone options to get an automatic year extension. We should have learnt our lessons with the likes of Roberts, Pogrebnyak, and Drenthe.

How much did McClearly, Harriott, Quinn and Kermorgant cost us last season? And for what? The square root of oxf*rd all.

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 04 Sep 2018 22:54

Swift got a 5 year deal, Kelly a 4 year one. Based on half a season of good displays
Obita got 3 years (the most justified imo)

Believe Popa got 3.5 years and Clement 3 - though maybe wrong on that.

The extensions to Yann, Joey and McShane were ridiculous. No one else would have signed them. I’m not too sure the 3 year contracts handed out to the U23s (Barrett, Holmes, Richards if I remember rightly) were great business either

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Re: Clement

by Sutekh » 05 Sep 2018 09:23

Hound Swift got a 5 year deal, Kelly a 4 year one. Based on half a season of good displays
Obita got 3 years (the most justified imo)

Believe Popa got 3.5 years and Clement 3 - though maybe wrong on that.

The extensions to Yann, Joey and McShane were ridiculous. No one else would have signed them. I’m not too sure the 3 year contracts handed out to the U23s (Barrett, Holmes, Richards if I remember rightly) were great business either


The other complete mystery was Aluko on FOUR years :shock:

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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 05 Sep 2018 11:16

We were doing quite well when the majority of those contracts were handed out so there was, at that point, a realistic option of another team coming in to buy them. Hindsight eh?

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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 05 Sep 2018 13:55

NewCorkSeth We were doing quite well when the majority of those contracts were handed out so there was, at that point, a realistic option of another team coming in to buy them. Hindsight eh?


Sorry, not buying that. We did plenty well enough in sales and retaining players before we started dishing out stupid length contracts without justification. And we weren't getting stuck with overpaid underperformers and cripples for years.


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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 05 Sep 2018 14:16

Snowflake Royal
NewCorkSeth We were doing quite well when the majority of those contracts were handed out so there was, at that point, a realistic option of another team coming in to buy them. Hindsight eh?


Sorry, not buying that. We did plenty well enough in sales and retaining players before we started dishing out stupid length contracts without justification. And we weren't getting stuck with overpaid underperformers and cripples for years.

Before Roberts I take you mean? I'm sure there were plenty of players given long contracts they didn't deserve before then but football has scaled up so much it seems like more now.

Emerse Fae was signed on an initial 3 year deal. Greg Halford was probably given a lengthy contract.

Tying down Swift and Kelly made sense at the time. Now it doesn't. If we hadn't have given them new contracts they probably would have performed amazingly and left us already.

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Re: Clement

by Top Flight » 05 Sep 2018 14:16

I haven't read this whole thread but Clement has to be IN for me.

It takes a few years to build a good football team and Clement needs the time. Clarke never had the time (Deservedly so). But if he did have the time, I reckon he could have built a promotion winning side. McDermott never had the time (Discgracefully so). McDermott certainly would have us firing around the play off positions or higher. Stam didn't really get the time (Again, deservedly so, based on last years poor performances and the boring nature of our play even when we were doing well). Clement cannot turn this around in just one transfer window. He will need around 6 windows in my opinion to get us in to a top 3 side.

Now is the time for us really to just shut the Fffff up and support the team and club now. The time for talking b*ll*cks is now over. We just have to back the boys and support them on to success. Even Tim Dellor now realises what a Tw*t he has been in the past piling pressure on to good people like McDermott. The manager needs our full support, our patience and our understanding. Let's just back Clement and give him the time he needs to get this side up the table. It's the players who don't perform that need to be axed. Not Clement.

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Re: Clement

by muirinho » 05 Sep 2018 14:22

Snowflake Royal It's not just long contracts, it's foolish contracts.

McCleary getting that length of contract with his injury record at that point, which has only got worse, was stupid.
Kermorgant getting an extension before he'd returned fully from injury was stupid.
Moore getting a big new contract is questionable depending on how it affects his wages.
Even Yiadom's is foolish... he just got relegated with Barnsley, he could easily have failed here and we'd be stuck with him.

I don't think we should hand out contracts for four years to anyone on average or above wages, or over the age of 25. Or give anyone options to get an automatic year extension. We should have learnt our lessons with the likes of Roberts, Pogrebnyak, and Drenthe.

How much did McClearly, Harriott, Quinn and Kermorgant cost us last season? And for what? The square root of oxf*rd all.


Really? Think you are deciding "foolish" by what we know now, rather than what we knew at the time. And even then....
E.g., McCleary "with his injury record". At that point in time he'd never played less than 30 games a season for us. He was a critical player that season (played 47 games), and would have gone for nothing if he hadn't signed a new contract. It's extremely likely he would not have signed anything less than 3 years - because he certainly could have got 3 years elsewhere. There was very little reason *not* to offer him 3 years.
Kermorgant - Which extension? He extended in February 2017 for another year. Again, like McCleary , treating him right then was a good plan - he had everything invested in Reading going up, which might not have been the case if he knew he himself would be leaving, regardless. He played 25 times last season, yes, not as productive - but then, who was? He was always there for backup, not as the main striker. The extension early in that season for another year got mutually cancelled anyway, so it's unlikely to have cost much.

Moore gets a long contract in return for a fat release clause, obviously. This was what was required to keep him. Most people at the club want that. You don't think it's worth it, but that's very much a minority opinion. I certainly don't think it's a foolish contract.

Quinn and Harriott. Players get injured. Happens everywhere. So?

I don't know what you actually expect, honestly. Who do you think will want to come and play for us if they're only going to get 2 year contracts, when there are 4 year contracts on offer elsewhere? How can we retain players we want to keep, let alone attract new ones, if we're not offering them stuff that is at least comparable?
Do you think every other club miraculously only signs players that are never injured? That all their transfers just magically work out?

As for overpaying, Reading used to be one of the higher payers in the division. Not any more. Last I saw I think we were about average. When you then consider the cost of living down here, as opposed to, say Bolton, we're probably considerably below average. It's a very Northern league now.

One of the things that is expensive though, is sacking your manager regularly. We should stop doing that. Not just because of the expense of breaking contracts, but because every manager "wants to bring in their own players". Which leads to squad bloat.

If you think footballers get paid too much for doing too little, I'm not going to disagree.

If you think only Reading is paying its footballers too much for too little - that's just not true.

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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 05 Sep 2018 15:01

Top Flight It takes a few years to build a good football team and Clement needs the time.

Clement would be breaking new ground there. He's never really 'built a good team' anywhere. He's never been anywhere longer than about 6 months?
It took Bielsa at Leeds less than a month? (And they haven't even made the playoffs in more than a decade.)
Did it always take Warnock 'a few years'?
Last edited by Denver Royal on 05 Sep 2018 15:07, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Clement

by Top Flight » 05 Sep 2018 15:06

Denver Royal
Top Flight It takes a few years to build a good football team and Clement needs the time.

Clement would be breaking new ground. He's never been anywhere longer than about 6 months?
It took Bielsa at Leeds about 1 month? And they haven't even made the playoffs in more than a decade.
Did it always take Warnock 'a few years'?

Of course. It usually takes Warnock 2 or 3 seasons to get his team really on the march. How long has he been with Cardiff?

Clement hasn't been given a proper crack at the whip just like McDermott hasn't ever really been given a proper crack at the whip. When McDermott was given some time in his first spell as an RFC manager, he delivered.

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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 05 Sep 2018 15:12

Top Flight
Denver Royal
Top Flight It takes a few years to build a good football team and Clement needs the time.

Clement would be breaking new ground. He's never been anywhere longer than about 6 months?
It took Bielsa at Leeds about 1 month? And they haven't even made the playoffs in more than a decade.
Did it always take Warnock 'a few years'?

Of course. It usually takes Warnock 2 or 3 seasons to get his team really on the march. How long has he been with Cardiff?

Clement hasn't been given a proper crack at the whip just like McDermott hasn't ever really been given a proper crack at the whip. When McDermott was given some time in his first spell as an RFC manager, he delivered.

Took him less than 2 seasons with Cardiff fyi. I can't be arsed to check the other 7 promotions but I think you're making a weak point.

Time doesn't equal success and their might be a reason Clement hasn't had "a proper crack at the whip". 1 reason possibly being he doesn't win enough games in the early part of his tenure to justify keeping him on.

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Re: Clement

by Hopeful » 05 Sep 2018 15:24

Top Flight I haven't read this whole thread but Clement has to be IN for me.

It takes a few years to build a good football team and Clement needs the time. Clarke never had the time (Deservedly so). But if he did have the time, I reckon he could have built a promotion winning side. McDermott never had the time (Discgracefully so). McDermott certainly would have us firing around the play off positions or higher. Stam didn't really get the time (Again, deservedly so, based on last years poor performances and the boring nature of our play even when we were doing well). Clement cannot turn this around in just one transfer window. He will need around 6 windows in my opinion to get us in to a top 3 side.

Now is the time for us really to just shut the Fffff up and support the team and club now. The time for talking b*ll*cks is now over. We just have to back the boys and support them on to success. Even Tim Dellor now realises what a Tw*t he has been in the past piling pressure on to good people like McDermott. The manager needs our full support, our patience and our understanding. Let's just back Clement and give him the time he needs to get this side up the table. It's the players who don't perform that need to be axed. Not Clement.


Agree with this. The key for me is stability. Clement now has a squad to work with - It may be too big as far as he is concerned and he may have not got all the players he needs, but now he knows what he's got (since the loan window closed) so needs to crack on.

I like his clear post-match interviews, without any fluff.

The challenge is who is at "fault" when the players can't work in the Manager's style or system.
i.e. Manager's fault for not getting best out of players, or players not upping/changing their game and doing what Clement wants (with a caveat that they have been told to play a certain way for over a year).
I personally think once you have the players, you need to adapt your managerial style if the players aren't getting it.

I also think Clement has a decent style of play, but needs to tweak it from a 4-4-2 to 4-4-1-1 to cater for the player's skillsets we have.

Gunter Moore Ilori Yiadom*
Sims Bacuna Ezatolahi Barrow
Swift
Bod

*Yiadom was great as LB against Wednesday, so think Gunter/Yiadom is less of a liability than Yiadom/Blackett.
Once Obita returns, I would suspect that will change to Yiadom/Obita.

So, Clement IN. If that helps.

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Re: Clement

by Silver Fox » 05 Sep 2018 15:46

Denver Royal It took Bielsa at Leeds less than a month? (And they haven't even made the playoffs in more than a decade.)


Leeds are in the same place they were this time last season, let's wait a bit before anointing him shall we?


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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 05 Sep 2018 15:57

Denver Royal
Top Flight It takes a few years to build a good football team and Clement needs the time.

Clement would be breaking new ground there. He's never really 'built a good team' anywhere. He's never been anywhere longer than about 6 months?
It took Bielsa at Leeds less than a month? (And they haven't even made the playoffs in more than a decade.)
Did it always take Warnock 'a few years'?

Could you please stop sucking off Bielsa every six seconds. He's been in charge for six league games and Leeds have started this season no better than last season. They've consistently challenged at the top of the table recently, only to fall apart later in the season.

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 05 Sep 2018 17:46

Isn’t Biesla also known for collapsing in he seocnd part of the season? Players getting knackered with his training regime etc?

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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 05 Sep 2018 18:35

Hound Isn’t Biesla also known for collapsing in he seocnd part of the season? Players getting knackered with his training regime etc?

Yes.

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Re: Clement

by Lower West » 05 Sep 2018 18:50

Hopeful Gunter Moore Ilori Yiadom*
Sims Bacuna Ezatolahi Barrow
Swift
Bod



Too high expectations of the loanees. :roll:

Bod needs a partner too.

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Re: Clement

by Ascotexgunner » 05 Sep 2018 19:13

Dear god 46% for Clement to stay. We are doomed!!!!! Aldershot Town here we come.
As for the "it takes years to build a good team"........ There's more chance of Oxford winning the Champions League than Clement ever achieving that. All credit to him though. He's managed to turn us into potentially the worst ever side seen in the championship. We can then chant 26 next to 106. Though I have no idea where we will get 26 points at the minute.
Don't worry Clementine's.....keep believing, as the crowds plummet and we keep buying sub championship players.

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Re: Clement

by windermereROYAL » 05 Sep 2018 19:25

Ascotexgunner Dear god 46% for Clement to stay. We are doomed!!!!! Aldershot Town here we come.
As for the "it takes years to build a good team"........ There's more chance of Oxford winning the Champions League than Clement ever achieving that. All credit to him though. He's managed to turn us into potentially the worst ever side seen in the championship. We can then chant 26 next to 106. Though I have no idea where we will get 26 points at the minute.
Don't worry Clementine's.....keep believing, as the crowds plummet and we keep buying sub championship players.


Rowing against the tide cocksucker, I`m convinced your opinion is more relevant than the 46% that bothered to vote for Clement . if you can`t hack it then piss off. did you vote labour in the election then whinge when you lost?
Last edited by windermereROYAL on 05 Sep 2018 19:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clement

by sandman » 05 Sep 2018 19:28

Ascotexgunner Dear god 46% for Clement to stay. We are doomed!!!!! Aldershot Town here we come.
As for the "it takes years to build a good team"........ There's more chance of Oxford winning the Champions League than Clement ever achieving that. All credit to him though. He's managed to turn us into potentially the worst ever side seen in the championship. We can then chant 26 next to 106. Though I have no idea where we will get 26 points at the minute.
Don't worry Clementine's.....keep believing, as the crowds plummet and we keep buying sub championship players.


Oh f[u]ck off, we get it you wanted Potter. He wouldn't have been able to sort it out either because the main problems are above the manager.

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