Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

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Sutekh
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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Sutekh » 03 Sep 2018 14:28

Well - aside from the dreadful football currently being played by players who, as a team, are not good enough for the division they're in - if the owners generally can't be bothered to attend or talk to the fans through the local media what is the point is anyone else being bothered.

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genome
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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by genome » 03 Sep 2018 15:33

I too have been struggling with apathy, I think it's just a normal response when so many recent seasons have been poor. The last time I felt truly connected to the team was in 2011/12, when we responded perfectly to a heartbreaking playoff defeat. Since then, it's been mostly downhill, with the exception of 2016/17.

2012/13: Premier League season, but I didn't find it hugely enjoyable because we didn't capitalise on our promotion and we were so out of our depth.
2013/14: Mediocre.
2014/15: Awful.
2015/16: Started brightly, Clarkeg8, then awful.
2016/17: Obviously better, though I never got the sense of togetherness from the fanbase, that's probably down to the style of football.
2017/18: The worst season in living memory.

And now we've started poorly in 2018/19. You can't blame some fans for feeling apathetic, this isn't something that has been happening just recently, it's been a sustained decline with multiple changes of ownership, taking the club away from the community, over half a decade.

Something changed when McDermott was sacked in 2013, Reading became a different club to me then. It's like the values and principles we had that made us so successful under Madejski had gone.

Actually, come to think of it, things have been unravelling ever since that 5-7 defeat to Arsenal...

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leon
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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by leon » 03 Sep 2018 15:34

Football used to be meet up with the boys and have a load of drinks but then we all grow up and move away and have kids.

Now I take my 9 year old to every home game I can make travelling from SW London. I still sit with friends and acquaintances - I don't go on the lash before or afterwards so my match day experience is clearly different.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by LUX » 03 Sep 2018 15:54

it's never been the same since our promotion to the old third division in 1975-76.

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John Smith
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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by John Smith » 03 Sep 2018 16:19

leon Football used to be meet up with the boys and have a load of drinks but then we all grow up and move away and have kids.

Now I take my 9 year old to every home game I can make travelling from SW London. I still sit with friends and acquaintances - I don't go on the lash before or afterwards so my match day experience is clearly different.

100% this.

Football without beer or betting is pointless. And everyone tends to grow out of that at some point.


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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by boycey » 03 Sep 2018 16:22

The WASU, a group of 10 Y26 season ticket holders, stopped going because of the 3 day hangovers.

See you at Oxford next year.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Jagermesiter1871 » 03 Sep 2018 16:29

Watch all the plastics come out of the woodwork next year for Wycombe and Oxford away. They'll probably be selling flags outside the west stand again.

Genuine excitement for league one!

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by bigshaka'away' » 03 Sep 2018 16:33

While I would never wish the club to do badly, I honestly wouldn't mind playing in the next division down for a while.

New away trips, win more games, sell and get rid out of a lot of the dead weight from the club and start again.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by muirinho » 03 Sep 2018 16:44

bigshaka'away' While I would never wish the club to do badly, I honestly wouldn't mind playing in the next division down for a while.

New away trips, win more games, sell and get rid out of a lot of the dead weight from the club and start again.


Spent the last quarter of Saturday's game chatting about which away trips we'll do next year, when we're in L1. Improved the mood a bit!


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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Elm Park Kid » 03 Sep 2018 16:44

genome I too have been struggling with apathy, I think it's just a normal response when so many recent seasons have been poor. The last time I felt truly connected to the team was in 2011/12, when we responded perfectly to a heartbreaking playoff defeat. Since then, it's been mostly downhill, with the exception of 2016/17.

2012/13: Premier League season, but I didn't find it hugely enjoyable because we didn't capitalise on our promotion and we were so out of our depth.
2013/14: Mediocre.
2014/15: Awful.
2015/16: Started brightly, Clarkeg8, then awful.
2016/17: Obviously better, though I never got the sense of togetherness from the fanbase, that's probably down to the style of football.
2017/18: The worst season in living memory.

And now we've started poorly in 2018/19. You can't blame some fans for feeling apathetic, this isn't something that has been happening just recently, it's been a sustained decline with multiple changes of ownership, taking the club away from the community, over half a decade.

Something changed when McDermott was sacked in 2013, Reading became a different club to me then. It's like the values and principles we had that made us so successful under Madejski had gone.

Actually, come to think of it, things have been unravelling ever since that 5-7 defeat to Arsenal...


I always get the feeling that life-long Reading fans took that defeat really badly. I mean - i've never given two sh*ts about the league cup, or beating a 3rd string PL team. Yeah, the manner of the defeat was hard to take, but these things happen in football. But some fans I talk to just sound bitter about it today.

For me it was one of the most entertaining games I've ever been to!

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John Smith
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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by John Smith » 03 Sep 2018 17:02

bigshaka'away' While I would never wish the club to do badly, I honestly wouldn't mind playing in the next division down for a while.

New away trips, win more games, sell and get rid out of a lot of the dead weight from the club and start again.

I've been waiting for this for a few years now. Let's accept it might very well happen. And as for those that claim it will be a disasters of Portsmouthian proportions are wrong - we would bounce back as champions.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Tony Le Mesmer » 03 Sep 2018 17:59

Lots of comments saying things changed when McD was sacked in 2013. That was most definitely the turning point for me. I left that Villa game, his last in charge, thinking this just isn’t my club anymore.

The players and manager massively overachieved and they were s real credit to the club. And how did our support respond to that? They didn’t just boo the players for being out of their depth, they jeered and heckled the likes of Leigetwood and Harte. They wanted the manager out.

Going 4 up v Arsenal and drawing 4-4 was evidence of how we were prepared to throw the kitchen sink at a game without the fear of looking stupid. It won us the league title. Like when McD subbed Tabb for Le Fondre at St Mary’s when it was 1-1, being outplayed, and a draw was a great result. The memories of that night will last a long time. That should be commended, but our support took the Arsenal result as an embarrassment.

Maybe a bit of Karma is now playing out.

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tmesis
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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by tmesis » 03 Sep 2018 19:03

genome 2012/13: Premier League season, but I didn't find it hugely enjoyable because we didn't capitalise on our promotion and we were so out of our depth.
2013/14: Mediocre.
2014/15: Awful.
2015/16: Started brightly, Clarkeg8, then awful.
2016/17: Obviously better, though I never got the sense of togetherness from the fanbase, that's probably down to the style of football.
2017/18: The worst season in living memory.


It think it's the sustained awfulness that killing it for the fans. Fans can take boring football if we are winning. Fans can take losing, if you feel the team are giving their all, and you get a bit of excitement in the games.

When the football is boring and the team always seems to be losing, it just becomes pointless. We lost on Saturday, play badly, and it was boring, and I don't think anyone was at all surprised. I'd probably go as far as saying that most fans are turning up expecting to see a boring defeat. It's completely killed any passion at the club.

Even in Stam's good season, there were a lot of complaints about how dull the football was, and it somehow didn't really ever have the feel of a proper promotion-chasing season.

Basically, when fans have gone five years with virtually no entertainment, and there seems to be little idea off the pitch as well, it's little wonder it's so flat. The whole season has just taken the feel of a 0-2 down with a couple of minutes left game, just drifting away with failure expected.


And yes, older fans do drift away. That's always been the case. You can guarantee in the 80s/90s there were old gits on the Tilehurst End, saying it's a shame that Bert & Alf don't come any more, and that the football and atmosphere was much better in the 1950s.


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Re: Where have the hardcore gonMany excellent posts in this thread, and some really good and honest thoughtse? Culture l

by Denver Royal » 03 Sep 2018 19:20

Many excellent posts in this thread, and some really good, honest thoughts. Would be great if the club came in here and read it (do they?). Suteki made a good point, what does STAR think of all this? How can things be turned around?

To an extent, and I agree with others, the damage has been done, over the last 5 years. At this point, I feel the best that could happen is if we start winning games, move up the table, and get in playoff contention, if not this season then next. That wouldn't solve everything that ails the club, but it would be a start and would offer benefits.

Quite how we achieve that is being debated, and rightly so. I'd say the quickest way right now is via the manager. Whoever it is, he has to get it right. He has to get the best and the utmost from what he has at his disposal and minimize mistakes made by the club in the past (that, yes, weren't of his doing). The ownership, hierarchy and structure may have issues too (and we as a club aren’t alone in that predicament). But it usually falls at the feet of the manager, short term anyway.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Gunny Fishcake » 03 Sep 2018 19:29

Really good thread and agree with nearly all the comments and observations.

Many replies are clearly from life long fans like me and many hit the nail on the head, simply the fun has gone out of watching our team on match day.

At the end of the day this is supposed to be our hobby, pastime, a chance to let of steam on a Saturday, beers with the lads, banter, laughs and win or lose have a great crack.

Like the straw that broke the came'ls back, although it's not broken yet, it's getting bloody close and Saturdays game for those of us there was simply terrible. You'd have more fun at the dentist than watching that turgid crap.

I know it's so easy to harp on about the good old days at Elm Park, but it was is much fun, the atmosphere was electric under the south bank , you were so closed to the pitch and win or mostly lose we had fun.

However, most supporters today will only know life at the Madstad. I've gone on record before as saying our stadium does us no favours at all, built in the middle of an industrial moonscape , in the main you can't walk to the ground , no pubs nearby and no shops or decent food outlets and miles from the town. If you want a drink of food it's overpriced shite in and around the stadium like shit beer at a fiver a pint in a plastic glass and a soggy crap hotdog for £4.40

Most reading this would have got bored by now but this post touches a nerve with me and I'm sure many many others .

The club has lost it's soul, it's losing its fans and it's losing all credibility as a football club. We've been sold to faceless owners who cant even be bothered to turn up and never face the fans. I wouldn't know our owners if they smacked me in the face.

If we have another dreadful season finishing around 20th for the first time in over thirty years as a season ticket holder I wont renew, I'll still come but occasionally. I also think we'd have more fun in the league below , because I feel the only way we can get back to the fun days is to totally rebuild invest in youth or players that are prepared to give their all for the shirt.

It's really very depressing and it shouldn't be, simply shouldn't be.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Zip » 03 Sep 2018 19:49

I used to go to Elm Park and under the floodlights it was atmospheric. However I also went to games on Saturday afternoons and it was often turgid in those days in front of no more than 4000 fans.
It certainly wasn't a place I would want to have taken my little lad.

The club is now much more family focused. My little lad is growing up and is 15 now and would much prefer to be in the East Stand.
I understand that but we will be staying in the ED Stand. He has become a "lad".

We have moved on as a club. Away from the crumbling old terraces of our old ground to a Stadium that outside of Reading most supporters still cannot pronounce properly.

There are times I miss Elm Park. There are also occasions I think thank God we moved to a new stadia.
Either way there are positives and negatives. We won't be going back and have to make the most of what we now have.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Sep 2018 20:16

There's no doubt Elm Park has been romanticised into something it wasn't. The low roof helped increase what noise there was, but it was often half empty and quiet. And a hell of a lot easier to fill than the Mad Stad given it had almost 10,000 fewer capacity.

I still walk to the Mad Stad... it's a bit of a time sink, but it saves £5 a game on getting the bus - which is nothing to sneeze at when I'd only save maybe 45 minutes overall, get less exercise and it already costs me between £30 and £45 just to get to Reading for a game. Plus the walk along the river is pretty nice most of the year.

I can tell you it's a real disinsentive to turn up when you've got to spend close to twice your ticket price and 6 hours commuting. I dread to think what it costs me a year just to mostly have my weekend ruined. I was a lot happier when I wasn't going and we finished 3rd.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Stranded » 04 Sep 2018 08:50

I'm struggling to turn on iFollow most weekends, so god knows what it's like for someone who can get to Reading most weeks.

I've given other reasons why regulars stay away but the main reason why we only get about 12k home fans at the mo is that the football is rubbish and we are losing, what is it 2 home league wins in 2018? We've been here before, didn't we go a year between home wins not too long ago, we finally won one under Brendan Rodgers shortly before he left, against Blackpool (?).

If this team can somehow muster a run of 6 or 7 home games with a maximum of 1 defeat than people will start coming back esp. if they win 1 or 2 by a couple of goals. At the moment, add in the usual summer lull in crowds, together with a P3 L3 record and people just aren't going to come.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by under the tin » 04 Sep 2018 09:04

Snowflake Royal And a hell of a lot easier to fill than the Mad Stad given it had almost 10,000 fewer capacity.


**Pedant mode**
Arsenal (H). F A Cup 1972. I was in the South Bank. Official Attendance 27,600.

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Re: Where have the hardcore gone? Culture loss.

by Rusty royal » 04 Sep 2018 09:55

To me (now in my mid 60's) football in general has lost it's heart, all you hear on TV is Man U this and Man U that (even in the women's games now). So smaller clubs do not get a mention. Money has destroyed the game and will never recover, even in Reading the talk of development around the Mad Stad fills me with dread of wanting to get to a game on a Saturday. How will the club cope with parking (having already closed down 2 good car parks nearby and the loss of another parking area to Reading gateway), can you imaging the chaos on a Saturday afternoon trying to park with all those shoppers :roll: Public transport is a joke, Green park station for example, lets build it after the development has taken place, infrastructure should be in place first.
I know I wont be around much longer and hope that I will not see the club I have followed for over 50 years really fall away to virtually nothing, because that is the way I see it going if the owners so wish.

Rant over

PS.
The foot being crap at the moment does not help either :lol:

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