BFTG - PNE

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leon
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Re: BFTG - PNE

by leon » 31 Mar 2019 11:25

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It was painful yesterday especially the audible groans that accompanied each mistake. He’s certainly made his share of mistakes in the past but in essence your comments are fair. He has been a good servant to this club and has conducted himself well over the past few months. He has stayed positive and still seems to have the respect of his team mates.

I wish him well but his time with us is at an end.


Yeah exactly. A good professional etc and did a great job for us in year 1 and 2. But he’s had it now. Was so far off the level. He’ll do a good job in L1 for someone for a couple of years


Never forgiven him for Stevenage away.

Genuinely think his standard is far below L1 now.


Fulham away in the play offs. Blackburn away. A liability.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by From Despair To Where? » 31 Mar 2019 11:56

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From Despair To Where? I believe the whole thing about the team spirit is entirely down to the manager. He's come in from Day 1 with an infectious positivity, he's kind of put his arm around the squad and given them a fair crack, sussed out pretty quickly what needs changing, implemented changes and by and large they are responding. He's also seems to have really invested emotionally in the club. It may just be PR on his part but it's pretty effective and I think people respond to it.

It's all about man management and i think he's brilliant at it. you don't hear many people still moaning about his less than stellar CV.


Well his CV IS less than stellar!
But he's done the two things we needed to do:
1. Build positivity with the fans via the local press.
2. Stopped signing players. Getting the loan players in not only adds stability to the permanent squad but gives us lots of options in the closed season

Cant comment on his man management but, yes, I am far more optimistic now then when we appointed him.

People only really talk about the CV before a manager's had 10 - 12 games.

You wouldn't be talking about an unimpressive or impressive CV of a manager 15 games in whether he'd won 60% or 10%. You'd be talking about performance at that point.

Gomes has performed. That's all that matters. He's got to continue to perform to the end of the season and then do a whole lot more rebuilding given some of our deadweight and our current major reliance on loanees. And likely on a budget.


That's my point though, and incidentally was my point when we originally signed him. People wrote him off before he'd taken charge of a single game on the basis of his CV. If he's the right fit at the club then past performance at other clubs is irrelevant and you can't create an informed opinion until he's has time to influence things.

Incidentally, I also think that he is just one piece in the management structure at the club that starts at the owners and goes down through the CEO to the coaching staff. Again, Howe took a lot of stick for the appointment but I think that the club is a much happier and stable place and everyone is pulling in the same direction. It looks like we might moving back towards the strategy of 15 years ago of making appointments based as much on how good a fit they are as a person as their ability.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by AthleticoSpizz » 31 Mar 2019 12:04

leon
AthleticoSpizz Dunno, you tell me

Lighten up :roll:

loving the ‘edit’


He’s shit and slow. And a bit of a liability.
yeah but, enough about Sandman



etc.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by stealthpapes » 31 Mar 2019 12:30

Hound Quick scan of the PNE forum was quite complimentary

‘Faster, fitter, stronger’ than them. Did not ever believe I’d see that written about us after the last couple of years. Esp against a team like PNE


Something something spirit tenacity flair something

mid table championship is achievable with a solid team that's fast, fit and strong.

only saw the highlights, obv, but good counter-attacking fast paced goals. old school RFC. like it.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Denver Royal » 31 Mar 2019 12:55

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AthleticoSpizz Mcshane: looked completely out of place
There”s probaly a reason for that...first showing in seven months+

That's nice.
What was his excuse when he was shit 7 months ago?

Well, this being a match thread of the Preston game, and not an evaluation of his play 7 months ago, he was poor yesterday, no doubt. And he'd prolly agree himself. Understandably rusty and well off the pace.
That said, not seeing the need for some of the ridicule and 'humour', and still referencing Blackburn, etc.
Been a loyal servant, we got him on a free, etc.
We can see where he's at, and it is what it is. 7 games left, and he'll be gone.


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Re: BFTG - PNE

by URZZZZ » 31 Mar 2019 13:00

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AthleticoSpizz Mcshane: looked completely out of place
There”s probaly a reason for that...first showing in seven months+

That's nice.
What was his excuse when he was shit 7 months ago?

Well, this being a match thread of the Preston game, and not an evaluation of his play 7 months ago, he was poor yesterday, no doubt. And he'd prolly agree himself. Understandably rusty and well off the pace.
That said, not seeing the need for some of the ridicule and 'humour', and still referencing Blackburn, etc.
Been a loyal servant, we got him on a free, etc.
We can see where he's at, and it is what it is. 7 games left, and he'll be gone.


To be honest, it was actually embarrassing at times yesterday with how poor he was, it doesn’t matter how long he hasn’t played for, a professional footballer should not be playing that poorly, and this is championship level in a relegation fight

But I agree about mentioning Blackburn every time his name is mentioned. It’s like some people have a weird obsession over it. Yeah he had a poor game but on the whole, he’s been a very good signing and people are letting one game cloud their judgement too much

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Snowflake Royal » 31 Mar 2019 13:03

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Well his CV IS less than stellar!
But he's done the two things we needed to do:
1. Build positivity with the fans via the local press.
2. Stopped signing players. Getting the loan players in not only adds stability to the permanent squad but gives us lots of options in the closed season

Cant comment on his man management but, yes, I am far more optimistic now then when we appointed him.

People only really talk about the CV before a manager's had 10 - 12 games.

You wouldn't be talking about an unimpressive or impressive CV of a manager 15 games in whether he'd won 60% or 10%. You'd be talking about performance at that point.

Gomes has performed. That's all that matters. He's got to continue to perform to the end of the season and then do a whole lot more rebuilding given some of our deadweight and our current major reliance on loanees. And likely on a budget.


That's my point though, and incidentally was my point when we originally signed him. People wrote him off before he'd taken charge of a single game on the basis of his CV. If he's the right fit at the club then past performance at other clubs is irrelevant and you can't create an informed opinion until he's has time to influence things.

Incidentally, I also think that he is just one piece in the management structure at the club that starts at the owners and goes down through the CEO to the coaching staff. Again, Howe took a lot of stick for the appointment but I think that the club is a much happier and stable place and everyone is pulling in the same direction. It looks like we might moving back towards the strategy of 15 years ago of making appointments based as much on how good a fit they are as a person as their ability.

Yeah, but it's not unreasonable to judge an appointment based on what info there is. It doesn't mean he had to be a failure. But you conduct interviews and look at CVs for a reason. To increase the chance of finding a candidate who will be successful.

The thing is an opinion has to be open to change based on how they perform. It's ok to be unimpressed by a limp CV as long as you're prepared to get behind them if they then get the results and performances that are wanted / needed.

I wasn't impressed by Gomes' CV. I liked a lot of what he said and did early on, though far from all of it. He took a while to get things moving but now he is proving he can do good things I'm coming on board, albeit still with some reservations.

And while I wasn't happy I removed my negativity from the ground so I didn't bring everyone else down.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Denver Royal » 31 Mar 2019 13:57

windermereROYAL Nice to see JG has binned the play it out from the back from the keeper, his kicking from the hand is very similar to Adam Federici.

Not sure he's binned it for good though, and won't be surprised if he goes back to it.
Think it relates to the game/opponent. When required, we can go long, as we did almost exclusively vs Ipswich, and in chunks of other games.
It's prolly fluid anyway, irrespective of any pre-game plans, and when Martinez collects he has leeway in-game re. 'what you see', and if he thinks something is 'on' long, then he can go to that.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Snowflake Royal » 31 Mar 2019 14:16

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windermereROYAL Nice to see JG has binned the play it out from the back from the keeper, his kicking from the hand is very similar to Adam Federici.

Not sure he's binned it for good though, and won't be surprised if he goes back to it.
Think it relates to the game/opponent. When required, we can go long, as we did almost exclusively vs Ipswich, and in chunks of other games.
It's prolly fluid anyway, irrespective of any pre-game plans, and when Martinez collects he has leeway in-game re. 'what you see', and if he thinks something is 'on' long, then he can go to that.

Certainly how it should be. Play what's right at the time.

Didnt Gomes complain about us being too direct at one point though? Possibly Ipswich?


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Re: BFTG - PNE

by leon » 31 Mar 2019 14:19

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sandman That's nice.
What was his excuse when he was shit 7 months ago?

Well, this being a match thread of the Preston game, and not an evaluation of his play 7 months ago, he was poor yesterday, no doubt. And he'd prolly agree himself. Understandably rusty and well off the pace.
That said, not seeing the need for some of the ridicule and 'humour', and still referencing Blackburn, etc.
Been a loyal servant, we got him on a free, etc.
We can see where he's at, and it is what it is. 7 games left, and he'll be gone.


To be honest, it was actually embarrassing at times yesterday with how poor he was, it doesn’t matter how long he hasn’t played for, a professional footballer should not be playing that poorly, and this is championship level in a relegation fight

But I agree about mentioning Blackburn every time his name is mentioned. It’s like some people have a weird obsession over it. Yeah he had a poor game but on the whole, he’s been a very good signing and people are letting one game cloud their judgement too much


I wonder why people might mention that game?

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Hound » 31 Mar 2019 14:27

Wasn’t Blackburn the last game he played for us? When he single handedly cost us 2 points?

No real surprise it’s referenced regularly

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by windermereROYAL » 31 Mar 2019 14:32

Hound Wasn’t Blackburn the last game he played for us? When he single handedly cost us 2 points?

No real surprise it’s referenced regularly


Yep 4 minutes into the 2nd half takes their player out waist high inside the box, unforgivable. I feel if that had been on Gomes watch he would never play for us again, Kelly has learnt that the hard way.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by URZZZZ » 31 Mar 2019 14:35

Yeah it was

Shock horror that a footballer costs his team one game of the season. People need to get over it

I recall a certain Tiago being at fault for three goals in one game last year against Derby. That cost us the game. No-one ever mentioned that

Like I said, people have an irrational dislike against him. It's just weird. Maybe people were just looking for an excuse to slate him at every given opportunity after his antics against Stevenage last season


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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Denver Royal » 31 Mar 2019 14:39

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Denver Royal Well, this being a match thread of the Preston game, and not an evaluation of his play 7 months ago, he was poor yesterday, no doubt. And he'd prolly agree himself. Understandably rusty and well off the pace.
That said, not seeing the need for some of the ridicule and 'humour', and still referencing Blackburn, etc.
Been a loyal servant, we got him on a free, etc.
We can see where he's at, and it is what it is. 7 games left, and he'll be gone.


To be honest, it was actually embarrassing at times yesterday with how poor he was, it doesn’t matter how long he hasn’t played for, a professional footballer should not be playing that poorly, and this is championship level in a relegation fight

But I agree about mentioning Blackburn every time his name is mentioned. It’s like some people have a weird obsession over it. Yeah he had a poor game but on the whole, he’s been a very good signing and people are letting one game cloud their judgement too much


I wonder why people might mention that game?

Well, some people will. And some won't. And some already have/did and have left it there.
As you know, different people make different choices re. what they say and do and engage in.
I'd imagine the player, the club, his teammates, coaches, manager, etc, would all rather we didn't keep banging on about it and move on. Some have, and some feel the need to do otherwise.
It's interesting, though. Ilori, who we bought for millions, made mistakes and cost us goals - in games we lost - yet they are rarely mentioned and he is viewed with affection. Both then, and now. By some.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Denver Royal » 31 Mar 2019 15:32

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windermereROYAL Nice to see JG has binned the play it out from the back from the keeper, his kicking from the hand is very similar to Adam Federici.

Not sure he's binned it for good though, and won't be surprised if he goes back to it.
Think it relates to the game/opponent. When required, we can go long, as we did almost exclusively vs Ipswich, and in chunks of other games.
It's prolly fluid anyway, irrespective of any pre-game plans, and when Martinez collects he has leeway in-game re. 'what you see', and if he thinks something is 'on' long, then he can go to that.

Certainly how it should be. Play what's right at the time.

Didnt Gomes complain about us being too direct at one point though? Possibly Ipswich?

Yep, agreed, think you're right. Believe he mentioned that in post-game interview. Whatever we might think (or want), pretty sure that overall he has his preferred way of playing, but think it can be flexible depending on the situation, and as you rightly say 'Certainly how it should be. Play what's right at the time.'

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by sandman » 31 Mar 2019 15:37

URZZZZ Yeah it was

Shock horror that a footballer costs his team one game of the season. People need to get over it

I recall a certain Tiago being at fault for three goals in one game last year against Derby. That cost us the game. No-one ever mentioned that

Like I said, people have an irrational dislike against him. It's just weird. Maybe people were just looking for an excuse to slate him at every given opportunity after his antics against Stevenage last season


It's actually two this season.

He was at fault for Forest's winner at their place as well.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by strap » 31 Mar 2019 15:47

Couple of obscure stats from yesterday's game.

Meite's goal was his 8th in the league this season. He needs 1 more to "beat" Carl Asaba's obscure "record" of being RFC's lowest Highest League Scorer in a season. Asaba managed 8 league goals in Terry the Taxi's disastrous 2nd tier relegation team of 1997/98.

Only 2 players this season have been involved in every match squad to date. Andy Yiadom with 40 starts, 1 sub and 1 non-playing sub. Surprisingly the other one is John Swift, 31 starts, 6 subs and 5 non-playing subs. I always thought he was a bit of a "sick-note". Clearly I know nothing!

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Hound » 31 Mar 2019 16:09

URZZZZ Yeah it was

Shock horror that a footballer costs his team one game of the season. People need to get over it

I recall a certain Tiago being at fault for three goals in one game last year against Derby. That cost us the game. No-one ever mentioned that

Like I said, people have an irrational dislike against him. It's just weird. Maybe people were just looking for an excuse to slate him at every given opportunity after his antics against Stevenage last season


People did mention the Derby game . At the time and after. Likewise his performance against Swansea this year

It’s not an irrational dislike for McShane. He’s had a good career, but it’s painful watching him now and a disaster waiting to happen. He should have gone at the end of last season tbh

It wasn’t just the fact he cost the Blackburn game, but the nature of the two appalling tackles resulting in penalties - which were their only shots on target in the entire game

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by Victor Meldrew » 31 Mar 2019 16:18

I was wondering driving back from the game last night where we would have been if we hadn't made these 5 loan signings-I believe we would have been where Bolton now are in the table or thereabouts.

Whoever was responsible for those signings saved our season- I'm sure Gomes has played his part in our upturn but I doubt that he would have done so well with the squad that we already had.

As others have said, a good first half yesterday and in the second we didn't know whether to stick or twist.
Looking ahead I feel that we might only need one more win and possibly a draw to be safe, a position that we could only hope and dream of back around Christmastime.

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Re: BFTG - PNE

by URZZZZ » 31 Mar 2019 16:19

I'm not defending his actions against Blackburn. It was horrific. But it happened 7 months ago and it's all anyone brings up when anyone says his name

Put it this way. If someone was to ask the most memorable thing McShane did in his time here, they'd neglect how good he was at the start and focus on the Stevenage debacle/Blackburn debacle.

And he's still a better option than just chucking in the youth. You saw how lightweight Olise and East were. If Moore/Miazga were to get injured, he's next in line. He's not exactly going to be confident if everyone's on his back from the get go of him playing

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