BFTG - Brentford

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Zip
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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Zip » 15 Apr 2019 17:05

Gunts is a decent right back at this level. He is technically good and a better passer of the ball than Yiadom, Being a defender is not just about closing players down. That is definitely his biggest weakness though. He does stay too far off his opponent and lacks Yiadom’s fierce determination.
He is a good player to bring on if we are winning a game with ten minutes to go.

Where I disagree is with the poster...was it you Seth? who thought we could sell him for two million. Not a chance. He is 30 in January and about to enter the final year of his contract. No chance we will get that much for him.

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Snowflake Royal » 15 Apr 2019 18:02

Stranded
NewCorkSeth
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That is fine but as part of a discussion it helps not to ignore a key point of a posters point to try and make a counter point.

But the Gunter supporters are the first to ignore key points. In almost every arguement about Gunter someone will state his inability to block crosses, his poor positioning around the box and his frankly appalling man marking. Nobody on the pro Gunter side ever tries to argue against those points. And I dont blame them. The evidence overwhelming supports it.

Gunter is a footballer with premier league level fitness and League 1 ability. He is only consistent in his inconsistencies. 1 game he does the positioning correctly but cant pass the ball forward. The next he is crossing beautifully into the box but leaves his man free at the far post.

In short hes a wing back who has been playing in a team that rarely plays wing backs at a level too difficult for him to cope with.


Of course he has flaws - no-one is making out he is an outstanding player but he simply is not as bad as his detractors want to believe. The problem with a defender who does make mistakes, and Gunter does make them (as all defenders at this level do) is they are so much easier to remember and point out than the multitude of times where he does something well or even adequately. If a RB blocks a cross, then you don't even remember it as nothing of note has happened but when he doesn't do so or is out of position then it sticks in the memory bank esp if it leads to a chance or a goal.

The level of his errors simply haven't been as high as people think over his career here but when they happen they are highlighted because people have this view that he constantly makes errors so it reinforces and backs up this view of him as a player.

It's the reverse of a striker, he can have a couple of awful games, miss some sitters but taps one away to win a game or salvage a point and everyone forgets the free header he put wide earlier in the game. Gunter can have 5 or 6 decent, steady games where he does nothing wrong, then he fails to block a cross, a goal results and he's shit.

Most of my complaints about Gunter have never been about errors, so I'm afraid it doesn't wash.

And you do yourself no favours by, it feels, lumping all criticism of him into people saying he's shit.

Whilst I'm sure you can find moments of me venting and calling him shit, I've never seriously suggested that's the case. I've consistently said he's not good enough, or mediocre.

But why this argument is still going on when virtually everyone has been praising his last two performances is beyond me.

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Bigtimmeh » 15 Apr 2019 18:08

All players have their ups and downs. If a player puts in a couple of decent performances then he's on the up - keep him in the team until he messes up. If a player is not in form then replace him.. simple. The only exeption to this is if someone has potential to improve, but i don't think that applies to a 30 year old..I haven't seen myself, but if gunter has had a couple of good games I say stick with him and try to get over how bad he has been previously ..the reason this argument is still going on is everyone loves talking rubbish on the internet (myself included).

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Zip » 15 Apr 2019 18:26

Zip Gunts is a decent right back at this level. He is technically good and a better passer of the ball than Yiadom, Being a defender is not just about closing players down. That is definitely his biggest weakness though. He does stay too far off his opponent and lacks Yiadom’s fierce determination.
He is a good player to bring on if we are winning a game with ten minutes to go.

Where I disagree is with the poster...was it you Seth? who thought we could sell him for two million. Not a chance. He is 30 in July and about to enter the final year of his contract. No chance we will get that much for him.

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Victor Meldrew » 15 Apr 2019 19:30

Zip
Zip Gunts is a decent right back at this level. He is technically good and a better passer of the ball than Yiadom, Being a defender is not just about closing players down. That is definitely his biggest weakness though. He does stay too far off his opponent and lacks Yiadom’s fierce determination.
He is a good player to bring on if we are winning a game with ten minutes to go.

Where I disagree is with the poster...was it you Seth? who thought we could sell him for two million. Not a chance. He is 30 in July and about to enter the final year of his contract. No chance we will get that much for him.


I think you should be excluded from making any comment on this player because of your vested interest. :wink:


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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Zip » 15 Apr 2019 19:34

Victor Meldrew
Zip
Zip Gunts is a decent right back at this level. He is technically good and a better passer of the ball than Yiadom, Being a defender is not just about closing players down. That is definitely his biggest weakness though. He does stay too far off his opponent and lacks Yiadom’s fierce determination.
He is a good player to bring on if we are winning a game with ten minutes to go.

Where I disagree is with the poster...was it you Seth? who thought we could sell him for two million. Not a chance. He is 30 in July and about to enter the final year of his contract. No chance we will get that much for him.


I think you should be excluded from making any comment on this player because of your vested interest. :wink:


oxf*rd off Victor you saes oxf*rd 8)

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Victor Meldrew » 15 Apr 2019 19:43

Zip
Victor Meldrew
Zip


I think you should be excluded from making any comment on this player because of your vested interest. :wink:


oxf*rd off Victor you saes oxf*rd 8)


Is that something in Welsh? :wink:

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Zip » 15 Apr 2019 19:44

Victor Meldrew
Zip
Victor Meldrew
I think you should be excluded from making any comment on this player because of your vested interest. :wink:


oxf*rd off Victor you saes oxf*rd 8)


Is that something in Welsh? :wink:


Bleedin’ foreigners

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by NewCorkSeth » 15 Apr 2019 20:47

Zip
Zip Gunts is a decent right back at this level. He is technically good and a better passer of the ball than Yiadom, Being a defender is not just about closing players down. That is definitely his biggest weakness though. He does stay too far off his opponent and lacks Yiadom’s fierce determination.
He is a good player to bring on if we are winning a game with ten minutes to go.

Where I disagree is with the poster...was it you Seth? who thought we could sell him for two million. Not a chance. He is 30 in July and about to enter the final year of his contract. No chance we will get that much for him.

Twas me indeed. Hes got a good reputation still. Full back prices have been rising recently and as his supporters on here will tell you, hes a good, consistent, leading international right back. His age shouldn't affect that moderate price.


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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Woodcote Royal » 16 Apr 2019 02:50

NewCorkSeth
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URZZZZ
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: what a load of nonsense


Yeah, ropey cross on the wrong foot. Big deal. He had his issues today, but he was fine.


And I'm no fan by any means.

That's putting it lightly Ian :wink:

And I am right there with you..


Agreed

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Woodcote Royal » 16 Apr 2019 03:33

Forbury Lion Ejaria MOTM for me, not only was he tackling and winning the ball but he seemed to be wearing Glen Little's magic boots as the ball was sticking to his feet at times when it really shouldn't have.

Rinamota and Ejaria - That's who I'd like to see the midfield built around,


Couldn't agree more.

We will need to sell to balance the books if we want to hang onto to some of our excellent loanees and Ejaria has all the skills to replace Swift if he's really on his way. He was my MotM, too, and is under rated my many in my view.

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Woodcote Royal » 16 Apr 2019 03:47

Snowflake Royal
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I actually think Gunter has been pretty consistent during his time here. Yes occasionally he has had quite a decent game, and on occasion he has been truly uncompromisingly shocking, but by and large, more often than not, week in week out he’s just pretty shit.

This, except I'd describe him as mediocre and passive rather than pretty shit.

Also don't think his closing down was well executed against Brentford, but it was improved in that he was actually trying it.


Agreed

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Woodcote Royal » 16 Apr 2019 04:10

Victor Meldrew Gunter was o.k for these past two games for the most part but, with all that experience, the player does so little in terms of marking a player or stopping crosses which IMHO are prerequisites for full-back play and he never learns.


Exactly, this is what full backs are supposed to do and our defence has rarely been sound since the day Gunter arrived because he doesn't do the basics in stopping our box being bombarded with crosses.

As Ian says, at least he's been trying to stem the tide over the last few games and now looks like a man who is all too aware of what is expected of him.

It beggars belief that it's taken so long for the penny to finally drop for someone who has been capped 80+ times for his country but long may it continue.


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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by RoyalBlue » 16 Apr 2019 07:54

Disappointing that what should have been a pretty positive thread on the Brentford game has descended into another war of words over Gunter.

There is so much criticism over his apparent failure to close players down and allow crosses to come in. I would suggest that over the past couple of seasons a lot of this is probably due to the failure of whoever is playing ahead of him on his side of the pitch failing to drop back and do their defensive duties properly. Gunter then has to decide whether to cover the player who is moving in more centrally or get drawn out wide to try to stop a cross coming in. To my mind, leaving a player unmarked in a more central position poses the more significant immediate threat.

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Hound » 16 Apr 2019 09:12

Of all the regular debates on HNA, the Gunter one is surely the dullest

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by Maneki Neko » 16 Apr 2019 09:53

RoyalBlue Disappointing that what should have been a pretty positive thread on the Brentford game has descended into another war of words over Gunter.

There is so much criticism over his apparent failure to close players down and allow crosses to come in. I would suggest that over the past couple of seasons a lot of this is probably due to the failure of whoever is playing ahead of him on his side of the pitch failing to drop back and do their defensive duties properly. Gunter then has to decide whether to cover the player who is moving in more centrally or get drawn out wide to try to stop a cross coming in. To my mind, leaving a player unmarked in a more central position poses the more significant immediate threat.


this

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by leon » 16 Apr 2019 10:35

Hound Of all the regular debates on HNA, the Gunter one is surely the dullest


Which is a damning indictment, tbh.

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by NewCorkSeth » 16 Apr 2019 10:38

Hound Of all the regular debates on HNA, the Gunter one is surely the dullest

I told myself I would never get roped back into one. I failed.

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by BarryWhiteRFC » 16 Apr 2019 11:03

RoyalBlue Disappointing that what should have been a pretty positive thread on the Brentford game has descended into another war of words over Gunter.

There is so much criticism over his apparent failure to close players down and allow crosses to come in. I would suggest that over the past couple of seasons a lot of this is probably due to the failure of whoever is playing ahead of him on his side of the pitch failing to drop back and do their defensive duties properly. Gunter then has to decide whether to cover the player who is moving in more centrally or get drawn out wide to try to stop a cross coming in. To my mind, leaving a player unmarked in a more central position poses the more significant immediate threat.


Pah, stop talking sense and reason. You're taking all the fun out of it.

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Re: BFTG - Brentford

by muirinho » 16 Apr 2019 11:19

Maneki Neko
RoyalBlue Disappointing that what should have been a pretty positive thread on the Brentford game has descended into another war of words over Gunter.

There is so much criticism over his apparent failure to close players down and allow crosses to come in. I would suggest that over the past couple of seasons a lot of this is probably due to the failure of whoever is playing ahead of him on his side of the pitch failing to drop back and do their defensive duties properly. Gunter then has to decide whether to cover the player who is moving in more centrally or get drawn out wide to try to stop a cross coming in. To my mind, leaving a player unmarked in a more central position poses the more significant immediate threat.


this


In the spirit of the niggliness of the ongoing discussion, may I just point out that in the last game, Gunter made more defensive contributions than anybody else on the pitch. Including clearing a goal-bound header.... Anybody would think he's actually a decent defender!

Moving on - and to return to the original point - I don't think we'll get anything like 2m for him - he's only got a year left of his contract.
He may push to leave if he feels he's not getting enough football (although if he continues playing for the rest of the season that may change) - but, given he'll be 30 in the summer, he may be happy to see out the contract and leave on a free the following year, and get himself a last big payday.

From the club's point of view, if they want him off the books, but he wants to stay, they may have to let him go on the cheap, so that a buying club will offer him enough of a signing bonus/salary to persuade him to leave. They could insist he cannot train with the first team etc, like was the case with Meyler et al. However, obviously if they did that, they'd be advertising to all clubs that they're open to any offers.

So I'd be surprised if we got any more than £500K for him. As he's been here 7 years, his transfer fee would have been written down yonks ago, any kind of a fee at all would be pure profit in FFP terms.

Maybe the team board would be improved if he leaves, but judging by some of the recent spats about John Swift, arguments will just move on to another player or players.

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