Next Season's Squad.

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Nameless
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Nameless » 06 May 2019 20:59

Ascotexgunner Read so many comments wanting to keep Ezatolahi. The guy has been nothing but a sicknote. Yeah he looks decent but we have one Obita already, we can't afford to keep another. OK if it was a free great, that isn't gonna happen.


He’s had a n injury then been kept out by the limit on loan players in the match day squad. There’s no evidence he’s going to be a regular in the treatment room any more than Rinomhota. He’d be a pretty low cost signing who already knows the set up and fits the bill as a young hungry player who willing increase in value.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by mikey0406 » 06 May 2019 21:03

Nameless
Ascotexgunner Read so many comments wanting to keep Ezatolahi. The guy has been nothing but a sicknote. Yeah he looks decent but we have one Obita already, we can't afford to keep another. OK if it was a free great, that isn't gonna happen.


He’s had a n injury then been kept out by the limit on loan players in the match day squad. There’s no evidence he’s going to be a regular in the treatment room any more than Rinomhota. He’d be a pretty low cost signing who already knows the set up and fits the bill as a young hungry player who willing increase in value.


And that’s the model we have to go back to. Too recently we have players who have cost us on initial outlay and hefty contracts and have got nothing in return regarding income. Even a free player will cost us a decent enough signing on fee.

McShane, O’Shea, Edwards, JVDB, Quinn....

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 06 May 2019 22:25

URZZZZ
NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal Don't disagree, but it doesn't really answer the question. :)

If we managed to drastically trim the squad and wages whilst retaining good young talent I'd absolutely take it if there was promise of sustainable reinvestment and rebuilding to bounce back.

I would not. Never. I would never take relegation even if there was a 99% chance of us getting promoted back in the next 3 seasons. How many clubs come back stronger from relegation to league 1?


There seems to be at least one/two teams who get relegated from the champ who bounce straight back up, Barnsley this season, possibly Sunderland. All three teams relegated in 16/17 went straight back up in 17/18 and they all went on to get a higher points tally the second time round in the championship.

2004-2005
Gillingham, Forest, Rotherham - Luton, Hull, Sheffield Wed
2005-2006
Crewe, Millwall, Brighton - Southend, Colchester, Barnsley
2006-2007
Southend, Luton, Leeds - Scunthorpe, Bristol, Blackpool
2007-2008
Leicester, Scunthorpe, Colchester - Swansea, Forest, Doncaster
2008-2009
Norwich, Southampton, Charlton - Leicester, Peterborough, Scunthorpe
2009-2010
Sheffield Wed, Plymouth, Peterborough - Norwich, Leeds, Millwall
2010-2011
Preston, Sheffield United, Scunthorpe - Brighton, Southampton, Peterborough
2011-2012
Portsmouth, Coventry, Doncaster - Charlton, Sheffield Wed, Huddersfield
2012-2013
Peterborough, Wolves, Bristol City - Doncaster, Bournemouth, Yeovil
2013-2014
Doncaster, Barnsley, Yeovil - Wolves, Brentford, Rotherham
2014-2015
Millwall, Wigan, Blackpool - Bristol, MK Don's, Preston
2015-2016
Charlton, MK Don's, Bolton - Wigan, Burton, Barnsley
2016-2017
Blackburn, Wigan, Rotherham - Sheffield United, Bolton, Millwall

Gillingham - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 twice since.
Forest - 3 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Rotherham - 9 season to be promoted back, relegated to league 2 once in that time, relegated again after 3 seasons.
Crewe - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 twice since.
Millwall - 4 season to be promoted back, relegated again after 5 seasons.
Brighton - 5 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Southend - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
*Luton - Never promoted back, double relegated the following seasons after.
Leeds - 3 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Leicester - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Scunthorpe - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up 2 seasons, relegated to league 2 since.
Colchester - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 since
Norwich - Double promotion season after.
Southampton - 1 season to be promoted back, double promotion season after.
Charlton - 3 seasons to be promoted back, relegated after 4 seasons
Sheffield Wed - 2 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Plymouth - Never promoted back, relegated the season after.
Peterborough - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up for 2 seasons.
Preston - 4 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Sheffield United - 6 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since
Portsmouth - Never promoted back, double relegation season after.
Coventry - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Doncaster - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up for 1 season, relegated to league 2 once since.
Wolves - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Bristol City - 2 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Barnsley - 2 seasons to be promoted back, relegated again after 2 season.
Yeovil - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Wigan - 1 season to be promoted back, relegated after 1 season, promoted again, relegated again. True yo-yo club.
Blackpool - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
MK Dons - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Bolton - 1 season to be promoted back.
Blackburn - 1 season to be promoted back.

So thats 11 teams (including Luton) yet to be promoted back out of 39, 13 have been relegated to league 2 after being relegated from the Championship and 10 have been relegated since being re-promoted.

Only 10 teams out of 39 have come back up and not been relegated yet.

oxf*rd this takes a long time to verify.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Denver Royal » 06 May 2019 23:00

Brain Traysers Our wages - £35m - 10th highest in league (above Leeds £31m and significantly higher than Sheff Utd £19m)

Ouch.
.
.
(Trivia: In 106 season, anyone know where we ranked in wages in Champ that season?)

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 06 May 2019 23:41

NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal Don't disagree, but it doesn't really answer the question. :)

If we managed to drastically trim the squad and wages whilst retaining good young talent I'd absolutely take it if there was promise of sustainable reinvestment and rebuilding to bounce back.

I would not. Never. I would never take relegation even if there was a 99% chance of us getting promoted back in the next 3 seasons. How many clubs come back stronger from relegation to league 1?
Loads.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 06 May 2019 23:48

Zip
NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal Don't disagree, but it doesn't really answer the question. :)

If we managed to drastically trim the squad and wages whilst retaining good young talent I'd absolutely take it if there was promise of sustainable reinvestment and rebuilding to bounce back.

I would not. Never. I would never take relegation even if there was a 99% chance of us getting promoted back in the next 3 seasons. How many clubs come back stronger from relegation to league 1?


Agreed. Relegation would have continued the downward spiral. Gates would have continued to drop. There is zero guarantee that we would easily bounce back. Even if we did whose to say we wouldn’t struggle in the Championship again. It hasn’t done Rotherham a lot of good.

Might have. Look at Norwich, Saints... both relegated to L1, both much better off after sorting themselves out and bouncing back, if not necessarily immediately.

If you're all about the next season or two, relegation is almost certainly a disaster. If you think in 5 - 10 year periods it's not necessarily anything but a road bump.

I expect we'll be Reading fans in 20 years time...

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 06 May 2019 23:50

Denver Royal
URZZZZ I don’t really keep too much up to date with the finance side of things but It feels like we snatched at any offer for a player Stam wasn’t going to use and bid ridiculous amounts for any player Stam was interested in. It’s said a lot but Stam and Gourlay are a bunch of clowns, almost single handedly destroying this club

You’re right, it is said a lot. You say you don’t keep up on finances? Aside from Aluko (who the manager didn't want), here's our approx business in those 2 windows (rough est in $ from one site I saw) that financially crippled/destroyed the club. (Again, approx $ figures):

2016-2017

SOLD:

Tshibola 6.75m

BOUGHT:
Swift signed on Free, now worth 10.5m?
Liam Moore 1m now worth 8m?
Meite signed for virtually nothing, now worth?
Blackett 2m
Beerens 1m, Sold for 1mil
Popa 500K, Sold for ?


2017-18

SOLD:

Samuel 500K
Hurtado 500K

BOUGHT:
Bacuna 1.7m, was Sold for 8m pounds?
Barrow 1.5m, now worth 6m?
Mannone 2.5 m, sold for ?
Edwards 1m

That's a hugely positive and not overly accurate spin.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 07 May 2019 00:03

NewCorkSeth
URZZZZ
NewCorkSeth I would not. Never. I would never take relegation even if there was a 99% chance of us getting promoted back in the next 3 seasons. How many clubs come back stronger from relegation to league 1?


There seems to be at least one/two teams who get relegated from the champ who bounce straight back up, Barnsley this season, possibly Sunderland. All three teams relegated in 16/17 went straight back up in 17/18 and they all went on to get a higher points tally the second time round in the championship.

2004-2005
Gillingham, Forest, Rotherham - Luton, Hull, Sheffield Wed
2005-2006
Crewe, Millwall, Brighton - Southend, Colchester, Barnsley
2006-2007
Southend, Luton, Leeds - Scunthorpe, Bristol, Blackpool
2007-2008
Leicester, Scunthorpe, Colchester - Swansea, Forest, Doncaster
2008-2009
Norwich, Southampton, Charlton - Leicester, Peterborough, Scunthorpe
2009-2010
Sheffield Wed, Plymouth, Peterborough - Norwich, Leeds, Millwall
2010-2011
Preston, Sheffield United, Scunthorpe - Brighton, Southampton, Peterborough
2011-2012
Portsmouth, Coventry, Doncaster - Charlton, Sheffield Wed, Huddersfield
2012-2013
Peterborough, Wolves, Bristol City - Doncaster, Bournemouth, Yeovil
2013-2014
Doncaster, Barnsley, Yeovil - Wolves, Brentford, Rotherham
2014-2015
Millwall, Wigan, Blackpool - Bristol, MK Don's, Preston
2015-2016
Charlton, MK Don's, Bolton - Wigan, Burton, Barnsley
2016-2017
Blackburn, Wigan, Rotherham - Sheffield United, Bolton, Millwall

Gillingham - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 twice since.
Forest - 3 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Rotherham - 9 season to be promoted back, relegated to league 2 once in that time, relegated again after 3 seasons.
Crewe - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 twice since.
Millwall - 4 season to be promoted back, relegated again after 5 seasons.
Brighton - 5 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Southend - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
*Luton - Never promoted back, double relegated the following seasons after.
Leeds - 3 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Leicester - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Scunthorpe - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up 2 seasons, relegated to league 2 since.
Colchester - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 since
Norwich - Double promotion season after.
Southampton - 1 season to be promoted back, double promotion season after.
Charlton - 3 seasons to be promoted back, relegated after 4 seasons
Sheffield Wed - 2 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Plymouth - Never promoted back, relegated the season after.
Peterborough - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up for 2 seasons.
Preston - 4 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Sheffield United - 6 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since
Portsmouth - Never promoted back, double relegation season after.
Coventry - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Doncaster - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up for 1 season, relegated to league 2 once since.
Wolves - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Bristol City - 2 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Barnsley - 2 seasons to be promoted back, relegated again after 2 season.
Yeovil - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Wigan - 1 season to be promoted back, relegated after 1 season, promoted again, relegated again. True yo-yo club.
Blackpool - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
MK Dons - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Bolton - 1 season to be promoted back.
Blackburn - 1 season to be promoted back.

So thats 11 teams (including Luton) yet to be promoted back out of 39, 13 have been relegated to league 2 after being relegated from the Championship and 10 have been relegated since being re-promoted.

Only 10 teams out of 39 have come back up and not been relegated yet.

oxf*rd this takes a long time to verify.

You look at many of the club's to sink lower and never come back and they're smaller than us or in greater financial dire straits. 1/4 without factoring that in is hardly the endless tail of inevitable woe many would paint.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 07 May 2019 00:06

Denver Royal
Brain Traysers Our wages - £35m - 10th highest in league (above Leeds £31m and significantly higher than Sheff Utd £19m)

Ouch.
.
.
(Trivia: In 106 season, anyone know where we ranked in wages in Champ that season?)

Pre a lot of parachute payments, we payed competitive wages despite the complaints about transfers and we paid plenty of bonuses that season, so top 5/6 I think.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Denver Royal » 07 May 2019 00:10

Snowflake Royal
Denver Royal
Brain Traysers Our wages - £35m - 10th highest in league (above Leeds £31m and significantly higher than Sheff Utd £19m)

Ouch.
.
.
(Trivia: In 106 season, anyone know where we ranked in wages in Champ that season?)

Pre a lot of parachute payments, we payed competitive wages despite the complaints about transfers and we paid plenty of bonuses that season, so top 5/6 I think.

Oh, was it that high? Was thinking (hoping) we were around mid table. Oh well....

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 07 May 2019 00:14

Denver Royal
Snowflake Royal
Denver Royal Ouch.
.
.
(Trivia: In 106 season, anyone know where we ranked in wages in Champ that season?)

Pre a lot of parachute payments, we payed competitive wages despite the complaints about transfers and we paid plenty of bonuses that season, so top 5/6 I think.

Oh, was it that high? Was hoping we were around mid table. Oh well....

I don't think we've been below mid-table payers since shortly after we returned to the division from tier 3.

Which is why the last few years are so frustrating. We've got the money. We've just spent very badly.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Denver Royal » 07 May 2019 00:24

Zip
NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal Don't disagree, but it doesn't really answer the question. :)

If we managed to drastically trim the squad and wages whilst retaining good young talent I'd absolutely take it if there was promise of sustainable reinvestment and rebuilding to bounce back.

I would not. Never. I would never take relegation even if there was a 99% chance of us getting promoted back in the next 3 seasons. How many clubs come back stronger from relegation to league 1?

The downward spiral.

Nine Inch Nails.
.
A bump in the road is one thing. But some said we could go down for a few years in lower div’s (under Paul Clement) and build again with him from there. Well, suffice to say, I didn’t buy in to that. (And not sure Clement did, and obviously club didn’t either).

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Denver Royal » 07 May 2019 01:41

leon
Snowflake Royal
Zip Ian are you sure that wages are that much higher than income? I know things are bad but those figures are horrible.

Broadly, if not generous.

I feel like I've been saying every year for at least five years that we need to heavily cut the wage bill, for people to list a handful of players leaving, ignoring the incoming, and claiming that'll have done the job, only to find out 18 months later when the accounts are published that I wasn't far off.


You feel like that, because you honestly think you’re right all of the time and you know everything.

I’d be surprised if you didn’t think that.

Hey, how’s your 9 yr old son? You raising him to be like Daddy? Tell him I said Hi.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 07 May 2019 07:32

Twitter seems to think we are getting Miazga back but not any of the others.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowball » 07 May 2019 08:08

NewCorkSeth Twitter seems to think we are getting Miazga back but not any of the others.



Does that mean we get four of them but not Miazga?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by paddy20 » 07 May 2019 08:29

Simon's Church Was it a bit weird that we gave a bloke with half a dozen starts for us a guard of honour and special presentation but didn't give a single mention to our club captain of 4? Years leaving in the summer? Even if people don't rate mcshane I'd still expect a bit of a send off, unless they're hoping to keep him on a reduced contract.


Agreed. Felt a bit sorry for him, a forlorn figure. Also why no mention to the crowd for Gomes. In Lower west couldn't really see what was happening with the presentations and I understand East Stand couldn't hear anything. All in all though still a good day.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by paddy20 » 07 May 2019 08:31

PistolPete Not a chance in hell O'Shea was on £40k per week!


On good authority

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 07 May 2019 08:35

paddy20
PistolPete Not a chance in hell O'Shea was on £40k per week!


On good authority

No way. His contract with Subderland was 47k. Theres no hope the club is that thick.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 07 May 2019 08:36

Snowball
NewCorkSeth Twitter seems to think we are getting Miazga back but not any of the others.



Does that mean we get four of them but not Miazga?

I'd take either to be honest. Signing Miazga or signing the other 4.

I dont know if Miazga would be a loan again or not but given Chelsea has to trim so much squad fat they might be looking to ship out some players. Maybe with sell on or buy back clauses.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 07 May 2019 08:48

I think this just stems from some comment from 'Smudger' Smith. I'd take it with a pinch of salt tbh

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