Next Season's Squad.

1826 posts
User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9730
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 09 May 2019 17:21

Nameless
SCIAG
CountryRoyal
It would be amazing, amazingly shit. We’ve seen our fair share of powder puff midfields in recent years but that would take the biscuit :lol:

I was mostly memeing, but I think you're underestimating McEachran's defensive ability.

This season McEachran made 2 tackles and 1.1 interceptions per 90. That was pretty standard for him - he's done better in two of his five seasons since he left Chelsea.
That compares well to Rinomhota who made 2.3 tackles and 1 interception. In real terms, Rinomhota wins the ball one extra time every five matches.
Baker made 1.3 tackles and 0.7 interceptions for us, by far the highest he's made at any club. Swift made 1.4 tackles and 0.8 interceptions.
Ejaria made 1.8 and 1.1. Kelly made 1.6 and 1.2.

Think it's fair to say that Rinomhota/Baker/AN Other looked like a solid defensive midfield base. Put McEachran in for Rinomhota and there's no good reason to think it would be noticeably worse at winning the ball back.

I think what we'd actually miss would be Rinomhota's ability to carry the ball out of danger. From McEachran's Chelsea days I thought this was one of his strengths, but he's actually terrible at it, even worse than Kelly. Statistically, Rinomhota is almost as good as Swift at dribbling, though I'd say they use their abilities differently (Rinomhota relieves pressure and gives us time to get set up, Swift dribbles more creatively). Ejaria on the other hand is one of the best dribblers in the league and the best who regularly plays in midfield.

God, spent far too much time defending that shitpost. But basically the problem with the modern British technical midfielder isn't that they can't defend, it's that they can't dribble. Oliver Norwood syndrome.


Does whatever the definition of a ‘tackle’ actually define what defending involves ?
James Harper used to,talk about this when people,said he couldn’t tackle. He said on the one hand you had Sidwell charging in and ‘tackling’ , getting lots of praise for diving in, knocking people over etc. Harps pointed out that if you lost a ‘tackle’ you were on the ground, off your feet, out of the game. He said defending was about getting between the attacked and the goal, stopping them passing, stopping them dribbling and waiting for that moment when they took their eye off the ball or slightly miscontrolled it and then taking it away from them. He said it was much and people,didn’t See it as tacking but he saw it as much more effective and lower risk even if it wasn’t what got fans on their feet.
No idea whether the football stats reflect this.

Xavi Alonso said similar... tackling's a move of desperation of something.

Making a tackle often just means the ball runs loose. Better to force an error that leads to an interception or the ball going out.

Room for both, but Harps defensive ability was definitely under rated. "Arm waving and pointing"

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6340
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 09 May 2019 18:09

Anyone know what Xabi Alonso said about tackling?

Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11851
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 09 May 2019 18:13

Same as James Harper I think

SCIAG
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4602
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 17:43
Location: Liburd for England

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by SCIAG » 09 May 2019 19:45

NewCorkSeth Anyone know what Xabi Alonso said about tackling?

Started off by saying that Carrick and older Scholes would have had better careers if the English weren't so obsessed with blood-and-thunder tackling, then this:

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

That was back when Spanish players were cool, but now English players are cool so who cares.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6340
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 09 May 2019 19:55

SCIAG
NewCorkSeth Anyone know what Xabi Alonso said about tackling?

Started off by saying that Carrick and older Scholes would have had better careers if the English weren't so obsessed with blood-and-thunder tackling, then this:

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

That was back when Spanish players were cool, but now English players are cool so who cares.

Sorry there was a typo in my post. I meant tickling. What did he say about tickling? Does it have a place in the modern game?


Cape Town Royal
Member
Posts: 336
Joined: 15 Feb 2012 18:29
Location: Eating ramen in Shibuya

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Cape Town Royal » 09 May 2019 23:51

SCIAG
NewCorkSeth Anyone know what Xabi Alonso said about tackling?

Started off by saying that Carrick and older Scholes would have had better careers if the English weren't so obsessed with blood-and-thunder tackling, then this:

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

That was back when Spanish players were cool, but now English players are cool so who cares.


Maybe mr Alonso never got to see Spanish defenders such as Gentile when he was growing up. Spanish defenders in the late 70's and 80's were some of the most cynical I ever saw.

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2378
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 10 May 2019 01:25

Zip
URZZZZ
Zip
Swift wasn’t missed during the run in. He will command a good fee. Much rather sell him than Moore or Meite who would have been badly missed ( we scored once in our final three games of which Meite only played a few minutes).


Out of all the saleable assets, barrow would be the first one out for me. And I know what you mean but it still doesn’t mean he “wants” to sell swift, certainly not in the same regard as him wanting to sell meyler and co. I’m sure if you asked Gomes if he wants swift come 3rd August he’d say yes

And whilst we didn’t do badly without swift, we did only win one game in 7 without him


You may be right on Swift but he is so inconsistent. That wont be lost on Gomes. Either way there are a handful of key players that I hope don’t go. If the likes of Moore are sold then we start from scratch at centre back which is a big problem. If we sell Meite then we have no one up front with a physical presence who can score goals.


I'd say our "key players" are Moore, Rinomhota, Swift, Barrow and Meite at this moment, Barrow on the cusp but he was much improved in the last couple of months

I'd say Moore is the most valuable, then Rino, then Swift, then Meite, then Barrow

Disagree with Meite. If Bodvarsson can stay fit (and that's the big if) he can fill the hole upfront, he's a better player than Meite and is a physical presence. Novakovich? Not sure what he's like in terms of "physical presence" but he looks fairly tall

We lose Moore, we have a bunch of kids. We lose Rino, we have Meyler and a bunch of kids. We lose Swift, we have a bunch of kids. We lose Meite/Barrow and we have other first team options. That's why to me, those two should be the ones to go if we need to sell a high profile player

The Cube
Member
Posts: 804
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 18:52

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by The Cube » 10 May 2019 07:51

Cape Town Royal
SCIAG
NewCorkSeth Anyone know what Xabi Alonso said about tackling?

Started off by saying that Carrick and older Scholes would have had better careers if the English weren't so obsessed with blood-and-thunder tackling, then this:

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

That was back when Spanish players were cool, but now English players are cool so who cares.


Maybe mr Alonso never got to see Spanish defenders such as Gentile when he was growing up. Spanish defenders in the late 70's and 80's were some of the most cynical I ever saw.

Was that during the period when they merged with Italy?

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9730
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 10 May 2019 08:12

Cape Town Royal
SCIAG
NewCorkSeth Anyone know what Xabi Alonso said about tackling?

Started off by saying that Carrick and older Scholes would have had better careers if the English weren't so obsessed with blood-and-thunder tackling, then this:

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

That was back when Spanish players were cool, but now English players are cool so who cares.


Maybe mr Alonso never got to see Spanish defenders such as Gentile when he was growing up. Spanish defenders in the late 70's and 80's were some of the most cynical I ever saw.

Well he wasn't born until 1981 so I think it's a fair bet he didn't see much 70s football.


Ranty McRantface
Member
Posts: 164
Joined: 08 Jan 2018 12:30

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Ranty McRantface » 10 May 2019 08:47

SCIAG
NewCorkSeth Anyone know what Xabi Alonso said about tackling?

Started off by saying that Carrick and older Scholes would have had better careers if the English weren't so obsessed with blood-and-thunder tackling, then this:

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

That was back when Spanish players were cool, but now English players are cool so who cares.


I get what Alonso is saying and for most of it I agree. Scholes and Carrick were great midfielders who's strengths were passing, vision and in one of their cases scoring from range. When they have to defend you have to ask yourself (like Alonso is) is it better to read the game and make an interception so you can immediately resume play using your greatest strength or having to make a tackle as a last resort? The moment you have to tackle you risk committing a foul, tackling the ball but setting it lose, tacking the ball out of play, completely missing it, etc. Alonso is just trying to show the bigger picture albeit for a "perfect solution". I would hope he is only saying this about midfielders and not defenders though as that is ridiculous to think that defenders should not need to tackle.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6340
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 10 May 2019 09:07

Release list just posted by the club for anyone interested.

mikey0406
Member
Posts: 348
Joined: 05 Dec 2005 17:00

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by mikey0406 » 10 May 2019 09:10

As expected... no real surprises. Always a tough time letting the scholars go, hopefully they can find their level elsewhere.

User avatar
Hendo
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5482
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 20:53

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hendo » 10 May 2019 09:18

Nope, no surprises.

Legg maybe? But I guess the club rate Southwood & Ward higher.


Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11851
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 10 May 2019 09:20

yes, do feel a little bit for Anssi, he did pretty well for us in the middle of the season. But can understand him leaving.

Good luck to all, esp the young lads who have been released

User avatar
Hendo
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5482
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 20:53

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hendo » 10 May 2019 09:21

Hound yes, do feel a little bit for Anssi, he did pretty well for us in the middle of the season. But can understand him leaving.



+1 to that, just wouldn't fit into Gomes' style of play. Can see him joining another lower Champ club/L1 club next year as he is a decent shot stopper.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6340
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 10 May 2019 09:28

Jaakkola did better than any of us expected him to do. He was a cheap punt who more than paid his fee and wages during a time we needed any little break we could get. A lot of the saves he made helped us survive this season. Wish him the best.

Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11851
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 10 May 2019 09:44

Anything to read into no mention of Ezatolahi? Being as he basically doesn’t have a club to go back to...

Royalwaster
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3155
Joined: 13 Jul 2004 13:32

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Royalwaster » 10 May 2019 10:13

Hound Anything to read into no mention of Ezatolahi? Being as he basically doesn’t have a club to go back to...


Not really ... he's a loan signing and none of the other loan signings were mentioned.

Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11851
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 10 May 2019 10:18

Royalwaster
Hound Anything to read into no mention of Ezatolahi? Being as he basically doesn’t have a club to go back to...


Not really ... he's a loan signing and none of the other loan signings were mentioned.


true but they have been mentioned previously about going back to their parent clubs

out of boredom checked his wiki page and noticed it has been updated mind you. Has changed it back to 'plays for Rostov' and updated the bit on his time here

Victor Meldrew
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6593
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 19:22
Location: South Coast

Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Victor Meldrew » 10 May 2019 10:50

The Cube
Cape Town Royal
SCIAG Started off by saying that Carrick and older Scholes would have had better careers if the English weren't so obsessed with blood-and-thunder tackling, then this:

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

That was back when Spanish players were cool, but now English players are cool so who cares.


Maybe mr Alonso never got to see Spanish defenders such as Gentile when he was growing up. Spanish defenders in the late 70's and 80's were some of the most cynical I ever saw.

Was that during the period when they merged with Italy?


:D :D Not sure the poster got that.

1826 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: From Despair To Where?, MSN [Bot], NewCorkSeth, Richard, Royals and Racers and 42 guests

It is currently 15 Dec 2019 16:46