Next Season's Squad.

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Zip
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 21 Jul 2019 11:03

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Hound Thanks all for the detail. Yes Ejaria & 1 more defensive CM plus a striker and I’ll be happy

I'm not convinced Ejaria is the right player for what we need, but he's good and he's safe.

We have so many players who can play in behind the striker but who you'd describe as doing nothing more than filling in for that central role.

In terms of where our players are most effective, it seems to me it's:

DM: ...
CM: Rinomhota, East
ACM: Swift, Olise, Loader, Holsgrove, (Ejaria).

We just seem to fail to balance our squad again and again. Spending a lot of time shifting players into suboptimal positions because we've got too many for one area and not enough for another.

We can get by without a dedicated DM if we have two decent all rounders. What I don't see working is mixing one good all rounder with two soft flair attackers.


If Swift is our best option at ACM then I’m worried. His passing is so inconsistent. Agree that the side lacks balance. It was clear to see last night. My view is that a CDM is the absolute priority. When Baker played in that role it made a huge difference. We looked balanced and it took pressure off our back four who could pass the ball to him to distribute. Without such a player the back four are going to make passes out of defence that put us into trouble.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Jul 2019 11:25

oxf*rd it. I think it's time for a big post outlining my arguments for the squad balance. First things first this is all prefaced on us playing the same or similar startIng tactic. Also j will not be discussing players that's are transfer listed other than Baldock as he was invited to the preseason tour.

GK - This is a shot in the dark really. I have no idea how Virginia will work out. Walker is fine as a 2nd or 3rd choice but I have no confidence in him as a no. 1. I cant figure it out. Here's hoping CBC suddenly bursts onto the scene after being given a chance in a cup game..

RB - I think we look good here. Yiadom is quality and in Watson and Howe we have 2 young players in direct competition to make their break in Championship football. They should both be looking to impress in training and be ready to take their chance. Moore can cover here too.

CB - Moore and Morrison are both proven championship CBs and more importantly they are both leaders. Something we have sorely missed. McIntyre, Osho and Holmes should be looking (as with Satson and Howe) to make their first steps as professionals this season. Blackett and Yiadom can both cover if needed. Would I say no to another CB in? No. Is it our most pressing position to fill now? No.

LB - A divisive position. I personally think we look good here with Obita coming back slowly. Blackett did show signs of improving and Richard's was trusted a surprising amount by Gomes last season. Yiadom can also cover. I'm not worried about LB for the first time in years.

CM - Oh. The big problem. We have Rinomhota and erm.. East. Maybe Swift. But hopefully not Swift. I'm his biggest fan and hes not a good conventional CM. Rinomhota on the other hand may as well be the second coming of Christ. Because Christ he is good. We need to sign 2 players for this position. Badly. Olise can cover but I dont know how well.. Holsgrove maybe too? I dunno. It's not good.

AMC - Swift, Olise, Loader, Holsgrove and Barrett can all fill in here. I think it likely that the first 2 occupy this spot for most of the season. Obligitory injury crisis aside. Under Gomes I can see this position really becoming important.

AMR, AML, ST - I think it is fair to lump these positions together. There was a fair amount of shifting between these 3 attacking roles last season. Meite, Barrow, Novakovich, Loader, Barrett, Olise and Baldock can for the most part switch it up. That's 7 for 3. Not great but not bad. It's a good blend of experience and potential and provided there is no injury crisis.. I am confident in that being enough until January. The starting 3 is obvious and Baldock can fill in all 3 positions. Might be a good season for him if he wants it still. Loader is one of the most exciting attacking talents in the league so hopefully a big season from him and were golden.

My takeaway right now? Sign some oxf*rd CMs and keep an eye on Goalkeepers.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jul 2019 11:46

NewCorkSeth You are not wrong. The midfield balance is heavily weighted towards attacking players (For the sake of this argument I'm going to call Meite, Barrow and Loader forwards as the wide positions will likely be the same as last year)

But realistically the number 10 role is Swifts to lose. Even if you're not as big a fan boy as I am you have to admit hes got that role nailed down at the moment. That leaves Olise and Holsgrove unlikely to both play a part this season. Olise is going to be the back up there. Add in Ejaria and that's 3 for that position. That's healthy. It only looks bad because of our complete lack of proper CMs to play behind them.

Now I know you dknt think Ejaria is as good outside of the number 10 role but I really do think he can be capable back up to Meite and Barrow. His ability on the ball was enough to convince me of that. And, if desperate, I would be fine with him as our 3rd choice CM. He put in some decent defensive shifts at the tail end last season.

I think Ejaria, in short, is wanted back to fill a number of roles. Not just as another backup to Swift.


Don't agree on Swift at all. He currently looks nailed on to play alongside Rino, with Loader as striker and Olise / Ejaria as the ACM / No 10.

What ought to be and what looks likely right now are totally different.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jul 2019 12:00

NewCorkSeth
AMR, AML, ST - The starting 3 is obvious.

Is it though?

Loader, for all his obvious talent and potential has shown nothing to suggest that in the Championship he can a) lead the line, b) score double figures.

If Meite leads the line we have no RW and lose the big diagonal out to him and the presence attacking far post.

Gomes is yet to show any hint he'll start Novakovich.

So I guess it is an obvious front three , but a pretty dysfunctional and unreliable one given how hot and cold Barrow blows, and how he's constantly rumoured to be leaving right now.

Our team has so much potential it's unreal. But so little of it has been realised or established yet.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Jul 2019 12:10

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NewCorkSeth You are not wrong. The midfield balance is heavily weighted towards attacking players (For the sake of this argument I'm going to call Meite, Barrow and Loader forwards as the wide positions will likely be the same as last year)

But realistically the number 10 role is Swifts to lose. Even if you're not as big a fan boy as I am you have to admit hes got that role nailed down at the moment. That leaves Olise and Holsgrove unlikely to both play a part this season. Olise is going to be the back up there. Add in Ejaria and that's 3 for that position. That's healthy. It only looks bad because of our complete lack of proper CMs to play behind them.

Now I know you dknt think Ejaria is as good outside of the number 10 role but I really do think he can be capable back up to Meite and Barrow. His ability on the ball was enough to convince me of that. And, if desperate, I would be fine with him as our 3rd choice CM. He put in some decent defensive shifts at the tail end last season.

I think Ejaria, in short, is wanted back to fill a number of roles. Not just as another backup to Swift.


Don't agree on Swift at all. He currently looks nailed on to play alongside Rino, with Loader as striker and Olise / Ejaria as the ACM / No 10.

What ought to be and what looks likely right now are totally different.

I figured they were playing him there to give our back up options some experience under the system and will move him back forward when we sign our CM. It's also useful to play him there in the friendlies as he is likely to be the first person moved back there in the cases of injury or suspension.

Hes not good there but its smart to play him there right now. Olise and the boys need to get used to the number 10 role whereas Swift has it down already.

Of course I could just be being optimistic.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jul 2019 12:11

NewCorkSeth
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NewCorkSeth You are not wrong. The midfield balance is heavily weighted towards attacking players (For the sake of this argument I'm going to call Meite, Barrow and Loader forwards as the wide positions will likely be the same as last year)

But realistically the number 10 role is Swifts to lose. Even if you're not as big a fan boy as I am you have to admit hes got that role nailed down at the moment. That leaves Olise and Holsgrove unlikely to both play a part this season. Olise is going to be the back up there. Add in Ejaria and that's 3 for that position. That's healthy. It only looks bad because of our complete lack of proper CMs to play behind them.

Now I know you dknt think Ejaria is as good outside of the number 10 role but I really do think he can be capable back up to Meite and Barrow. His ability on the ball was enough to convince me of that. And, if desperate, I would be fine with him as our 3rd choice CM. He put in some decent defensive shifts at the tail end last season.

I think Ejaria, in short, is wanted back to fill a number of roles. Not just as another backup to Swift.


Don't agree on Swift at all. He currently looks nailed on to play alongside Rino, with Loader as striker and Olise / Ejaria as the ACM / No 10.

What ought to be and what looks likely right now are totally different.

I figured they were playing him there to give our back up options some experience under the system and will move him back forward when we sign our CM. It's also useful to play him there in the friendlies as he is likely to be the first person moved back there in the cases of injury or suspension.

Hes not good there but its smart to play him there right now. Olise and the boys need to get used to the number 10 role whereas Swift has it down already.

Of course I could just be being optimistic.

Assuming we'll sign a proper midfielder seems pretty optimistic right now. :wink:

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Jul 2019 12:13

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NewCorkSeth
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Don't agree on Swift at all. He currently looks nailed on to play alongside Rino, with Loader as striker and Olise / Ejaria as the ACM / No 10.

What ought to be and what looks likely right now are totally different.

I figured they were playing him there to give our back up options some experience under the system and will move him back forward when we sign our CM. It's also useful to play him there in the friendlies as he is likely to be the first person moved back there in the cases of injury or suspension.

Hes not good there but its smart to play him there right now. Olise and the boys need to get used to the number 10 role whereas Swift has it down already.

Of course I could just be being optimistic.

Assuming we'll sign a proper midfielder seems pretty optimistic right now. :wink:

Lol. God that would ruin the season wouldn't it? Good manager, fans are happy, better game day atmosphere, exceptional youth products coming through. All would fall down if that position isnt sorted. Then the cycle of negativity would start all over again.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Jul 2019 13:46

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AMR, AML, ST - The starting 3 is obvious.

Is it though?

Loader, for all his obvious talent and potential has shown nothing to suggest that in the Championship he can a) lead the line, b) score double figures.

If Meite leads the line we have no RW and lose the big diagonal out to him and the presence attacking far post.

Gomes is yet to show any hint he'll start Novakovich.

So I guess it is an obvious front three , but a pretty dysfunctional and unreliable one given how hot and cold Barrow blows, and how he's constantly rumoured to be leaving right now.

Our team has so much potential it's unreal. But so little of it has been realised or established yet.

I figured he was saving the starting striker spot for Oliveira but now that we are not getting him Novakovich is getting the nod. Loader will get game time but I cant see him starting right away.

Having said that though I also wouldn't be surprised to see a front 4 of:

Meite----Swift----Loader
----------Barrow

He did play Barrow as our most advanced player a few times last season..

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jul 2019 14:07

That seems some fairly hefty assumptions seth.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Jul 2019 14:09

Snowflake Royal That seems some fairly hefty assumptions seth.

That's my jam. I presume too much.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by blythspartan » 21 Jul 2019 15:13

I appreciate that this is off track but I have just been watching highlights of the 2011/12 Championship winning team on YouTube and I was surprised at how good that team was. At the time I think I always compared them to the 2005/06 team and I didn’t give them the credit they deserved. Seeing all of us celebrating at Upton Park and St Marys’ brought back some great memories. If only we could have a team as good as that again.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by stealthpapes » 21 Jul 2019 16:42

blythspartan I appreciate that this is off track but I have just been watching highlights of the 2011/12 Championship winning team on YouTube and I was surprised at how good that team was. At the time I think I always compared them to the 2005/06 team and I didn’t give them the credit they deserved. Seeing all of us celebrating at Upton Park and St Marys’ brought back some great memories. If only we could have a team as good as that again.


as ever, the team >>> the individuals

how we handled that promotion, on the other hand, is one of the reasons we've sucked so hard since.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 21 Jul 2019 16:47

Baker heading off to Germany on loan apparently


Zip
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 21 Jul 2019 16:49

URZZZZ Baker heading off to Germany on loan apparently


That’s hugely disappointing to hear.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 21 Jul 2019 17:08

Very poor news if so

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by WestYorksRoyal » 21 Jul 2019 17:28

I've seen a few people suggest Swift alongside Rino, behind Ejaria. No, no, no!

In 3 years at the club, Swift has only ever played well in a more advanced role with defensive cover behind him. It gives him freedom to try things and get in the box. And he's actually pretty shit in a deeper role. Ejaria is great competitive for him who can do a job on the wings too (admittedly not a touchline hugger). It would be great if Ejaria can push Swift to deliver the consistency he's lacked in his career to date.

This means DM is a massive problem. Gutted if the Baker rumour is true; he fitted the role perfectly. I think we need 2 more midfielders; even with Baker, a single injury to him or Rino would leave us with serious problems.

I'm content with striking options. I'd love to move on Baldock and get an upgrade, but it's not a priority. I think he can be a bigger player for us this season. Will anybody take McNulty off us?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Jul 2019 17:34

URZZZZ Baker heading off to Germany on loan apparently

oxf*rd.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jul 2019 17:56

Good move for Baker.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by WestYorksRoyal » 21 Jul 2019 19:07

Without Baker coming back, surely McEachran on a free is a decent shout? He's a technical midfielder who likes to sit deep and try to dictate; he would be perfect foil for Rino. Age 26, 150 or so apps at this level.

I know he was released, but Brentford are a good side who should be aiming at top 6. We need to accept our place in the current pecking order. (I remember when they were basically our feeder club)

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by SCIAG » 21 Jul 2019 19:37

NewCorkSeth
CM - Oh. The big problem. We have Rinomhota and erm.. East. Maybe Swift. But hopefully not Swift. I'm his biggest fan and hes not a good conventional CM. Rinomhota on the other hand may as well be the second coming of Christ. Because Christ he is good. We need to sign 2 players for this position. Badly. Olise can cover but I dont know how well.. Holsgrove maybe too? I dunno. It's not good.

.

Would say Holsgrove is a CM who could fill in as either an attacking midfielder or a deep lying playmaker. Much like East although a bit more offensive.

Olise on the other hand is more like an attacking midfielder who could fill in as a striker, winger, or midfielder.

Saw them play together for the U23s once or twice and Olise did better than I expected in deep positions (previously had thought of him as a forward) but he was clearly playing further up the pitch of the two.

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