Next Season's Squad.

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Zip
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 06 May 2019 18:10

URZZZZ
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URZZZZ
Didn't we sell Beerens for quite a bit - more than we paid for him?


Yep good call although it was in 2018. The financial damage was in 2017.


Only ones we sold in 2017 were Hurtado, Cooper, Samuel and Stacey. Imagine cooper may have gone for a bit, not sure though. Others would have been minimal I’d have thought


That’s a big part of the problem. I think we had the third highest net transfer spend in the 2017 summer transfer window in the Championship. Very few fees for outgoings but heavy expenditure on incomings. We would have got a fee for Cooper but don’t think it would have been much more than £500,000.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 06 May 2019 18:16

That disappoints me. I wasn’t the biggest fan of cooper but in today’s climate, he’s surely worth more than 500k, especially considering he bought that waster Ilori for four million. Don’t really keep too much up to date with the finance side of things but it feels like we snatched at any offer for a player Stam wasn’t going to use and bid ridiculous amounts for any player Stam was interested in

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 06 May 2019 18:22

We apparently only got £400,000 for Cooper and I read somewhere we picked up just £300, 000 for George Evans at the start of this season. Peanuts really.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by muirinho » 06 May 2019 18:34

URZZZZ That disappoints me. I wasn’t the biggest fan of cooper but in today’s climate, he’s surely worth more than 500k, especially considering he bought that waster Ilori for four million. Don’t really keep too much up to date with the finance side of things but it feels like we snatched at any offer for a player Stam wasn’t going to use and bid ridiculous amounts for any player Stam was interested in


Well we did manage to sell him for about 2 million I think. And a bit unfair to call him a waster. Just inconsistent. (like Cooper, ironically, always had an expensive mistake in him).

I think Stam and Tevreden and whoever else was involved that season, overrated big club and European pedigree, and underrated smaller English clubs. For all the "European academy players are more technical" - I don't actually see it. I mean - Meite, for instance, (who I like), came through the PSG academy, and has an absolutely awful first touch. He is defintely not better in that regard than, say, Danny Loader
Similarly with Blackett, were they judging him on what academy he'd come from, rather than what he was actually like?

Hence they got rid of players they thought weren't technically up to scratch - and brought in players who they thought would be, based on parent clubs.
Maybe purely on technical skill, Ilori and Blackett are better than Cooper. But all the technical training from Sporting Lisbon, Liverpool and Man Utd won't save you, if your brain keeps switching off mid-game.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 06 May 2019 18:37

It is low and disappointing in Cooper’s case. Evans was in the last year of his contract, and like Kelly we wanted him off our books and he is borderline champ standard. It’s about the going rate

I doubt Minnesota are paying all of Mannone’s wage. Reckon that’s why it took a while to sort out him going. Like Joey, he isn’t going to throw away a decent contract and don’t blame him. Renhe prob paying for Aluko though along with a loan fee


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Simon's Church » 06 May 2019 18:38

Was it a bit weird that we gave a bloke with half a dozen starts for us a guard of honour and special presentation but didn't give a single mention to our club captain of 4? Years leaving in the summer? Even if people don't rate mcshane I'd still expect a bit of a send off, unless they're hoping to keep him on a reduced contract.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 06 May 2019 18:39

Yep was expecting him to make an obvious goodbye. Be madness to keep him surely?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Nameless » 06 May 2019 18:45

Simon's Church Was it a bit weird that we gave a bloke with half a dozen starts for us a guard of honour and special presentation but didn't give a single mention to our club captain of 4? Years leaving in the summer? Even if people don't rate mcshane I'd still expect a bit of a send off, unless they're hoping to keep him on a reduced contract.


I’m not sure you’d make a big fuss of anyone leaving if it’s not been confirmed. We recognised O’Shea for his massive achievements in the game generally rather than what he’s done with us.
I quite like the Rugby way of doing it which works because they have no transfer system so can be sure who,is leaving each season and they actually do a presentation for all Leavers at the last game of the season.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by muirinho » 06 May 2019 18:45

Simon's Church Was it a bit weird that we gave a bloke with half a dozen starts for us a guard of honour and special presentation but didn't give a single mention to our club captain of 4? Years leaving in the summer? Even if people don't rate mcshane I'd still expect a bit of a send off, unless they're hoping to keep him on a reduced contract.


Players leave all the time. Players with careers like O' Shea's, do not retire all the time. I don't know who organised the shirt, but the guard of honour was purely player-driven, not the club or the supporters. Done becuase they rated his achievements in the game, as fellow-professionals. What he had done, or not done for specifically Reading, wasn't relevant in their thinking.

I'm not saying it's right, but there's nothing particularly odd about it. We've had plenty captains leave on a free (Pearce, McAnuff, Karacan immediately come to mind), and there has't been any fanfare


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 06 May 2019 18:48

muirinho
URZZZZ That disappoints me. I wasn’t the biggest fan of cooper but in today’s climate, he’s surely worth more than 500k, especially considering he bought that waster Ilori for four million. Don’t really keep too much up to date with the finance side of things but it feels like we snatched at any offer for a player Stam wasn’t going to use and bid ridiculous amounts for any player Stam was interested in


Well we did manage to sell him for about 2 million I think. And a bit unfair to call him a waster. Just inconsistent. (like Cooper, ironically, always had an expensive mistake in him).

I think Stam and Tevreden and whoever else was involved that season, overrated big club and European pedigree, and underrated smaller English clubs. For all the "European academy players are more technical" - I don't actually see it. I mean - Meite, for instance, (who I like), came through the PSG academy, and has an absolutely awful first touch. He is defintely not better in that regard than, say, Danny Loader
Similarly with Blackett, were they judging him on what academy he'd come from, rather than what he was actually like?

Hence they got rid of players they thought weren't technically up to scratch - and brought in players who they thought would be, based on parent clubs.
Maybe purely on technical skill, Ilori and Blackett are better than Cooper. But all the technical training from Sporting Lisbon, Liverpool and Man Utd won't save you, if your brain keeps switching off mid-game.

Ilori and Blackett were definitely and clearly technically better than Cooper. And all three were prone to switching off mid-game.

The fact Ilori went back to Sporting (?) for solid money while Cooper went to Millwall for not much - who just regressed to mean - should tell you something about comparative quality on leaving too.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Oilroyal » 06 May 2019 18:51

URZZZZ That disappoints me. I wasn’t the biggest fan of cooper but in today’s climate, he’s surely worth more than 500k, especially considering he bought that waster Ilori for four million. Don’t really keep too much up to date with the finance side of things but it feels like we snatched at any offer for a player Stam wasn’t going to use and bid ridiculous amounts for any player Stam was interested in


I said as much at the time. Gourlay rolled over for Stam after his first season finish. And our new wealthy owners gave the pair far too much trust. Gourlay and Stam were a bad combination, a club wrecking combination.

I honestly believe we have the right combination in place with Jose and Howe, and they will get us back on track within 2, maybe 3 transfer windows. I don’t mind us selling Moore, Swift, Barrow, Gunts, GMac and the other 5 or 6 who have no future under Jose, so long as we keep players like Yiadom, Rinomhota, Loader etc. because I honestly believe that Jose and the club will build again and in the right way, of course we'll need loan players during this transition. Jose said in his post-match interview on Sunday that he already knows which players are needed.

Sell the big earners, let's balance the books and watch Jose build his team. I'm happy for this to happen.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 06 May 2019 18:54

Oilroyal
URZZZZ That disappoints me. I wasn’t the biggest fan of cooper but in today’s climate, he’s surely worth more than 500k, especially considering he bought that waster Ilori for four million. Don’t really keep too much up to date with the finance side of things but it feels like we snatched at any offer for a player Stam wasn’t going to use and bid ridiculous amounts for any player Stam was interested in


I said as much at the time. Gourlay rolled over for Stam after his first season finish. And our new wealthy owners gave the pair far too much trust. Gourlay and Stam were a bad combination, a club wrecking combination.

I honestly believe we have the right combination in place with Jose and Howe, and they will get us back on track within 2, maybe 3 transfer windows. I don’t mind us selling Moore, Swift, Barrow, Gunts, GMac and the other 5 or 6 who have no future under Jose, so long as we keep players like Yiadom, Rinomhota, Loader etc. because I honestly believe that Jose and the club will build again and in the right way, of course we'll need loan players during this transition. Jose said in his post-match interview on Sunday that he already knows which players are needed.

Sell the big earners, let's balance the books and watch Jose build his team. I'm happy for this to happen.

Would you take a relegation getting there out of curiosity?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Oilroyal » 06 May 2019 18:58

Snowflake Royal
Oilroyal
URZZZZ That disappoints me. I wasn’t the biggest fan of cooper but in today’s climate, he’s surely worth more than 500k, especially considering he bought that waster Ilori for four million. Don’t really keep too much up to date with the finance side of things but it feels like we snatched at any offer for a player Stam wasn’t going to use and bid ridiculous amounts for any player Stam was interested in


I said as much at the time. Gourlay rolled over for Stam after his first season finish. And our new wealthy owners gave the pair far too much trust. Gourlay and Stam were a bad combination, a club wrecking combination.

I honestly believe we have the right combination in place with Jose and Howe, and they will get us back on track within 2, maybe 3 transfer windows. I don’t mind us selling Moore, Swift, Barrow, Gunts, GMac and the other 5 or 6 who have no future under Jose, so long as we keep players like Yiadom, Rinomhota, Loader etc. because I honestly believe that Jose and the club will build again and in the right way, of course we'll need loan players during this transition. Jose said in his post-match interview on Sunday that he already knows which players are needed.

Sell the big earners, let's balance the books and watch Jose build his team. I'm happy for this to happen.

Would you take a relegation getting there out of curiosity?


We nearly got relegated this season with the big earners on the pitch (thankful to our 5 loanees coming in when they did).


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 06 May 2019 19:04

Don't disagree, but it doesn't really answer the question. :)

If we managed to drastically trim the squad and wages whilst retaining good young talent I'd absolutely take it if there was promise of sustainable reinvestment and rebuilding to bounce back.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by CountryRoyal » 06 May 2019 19:06

Why are we seemingly the only club that abides by FFP?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 06 May 2019 19:10

Snowflake Royal Don't disagree, but it doesn't really answer the question. :)

If we managed to drastically trim the squad and wages whilst retaining good young talent I'd absolutely take it if there was promise of sustainable reinvestment and rebuilding to bounce back.


It’s an interesting question. I suppose it may be worth following the progress of Ipswich this coming season, I get the impression they don’t have money to spend and will be replying heavily on kids in order to gauge a proper opinion on your question

Personally, though, if I was to answer right now I’d agree with you. I’d rather see us rebuild and maybe drop a division rather than just meander in 17th, 18th, 19th place etc waiting for the inevitable drop anyway

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 06 May 2019 19:11

CountryRoyal Why are we seemingly the only club that abides by FFP?


This was a point I was going to bring up. You read all the time of teams having major financial issues and breaking FFP rules, yet it seems Birmingham have been the only ones punished for it. Surely derby/villa etc cannot be complying with FFP rules

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 06 May 2019 19:14

URZZZZ
CountryRoyal Why are we seemingly the only club that abides by FFP?


This was a point I was going to bring up. You read all the time of teams having major financial issues and breaking FFP rules, yet it seems Birmingham have been the only ones punished for it. Surely derby/villa etc cannot be complying with FFP rules

Villa have to be on a knife edge. Problem is it takes three years to breach FFP and football finance is murky af.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 06 May 2019 19:15

Snowflake Royal Don't disagree, but it doesn't really answer the question. :)

If we managed to drastically trim the squad and wages whilst retaining good young talent I'd absolutely take it if there was promise of sustainable reinvestment and rebuilding to bounce back.

I would not. Never. I would never take relegation even if there was a 99% chance of us getting promoted back in the next 3 seasons. How many clubs come back stronger from relegation to league 1?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Oilroyal » 06 May 2019 19:19

Snowflake Royal Don't disagree, but it doesn't really answer the question. :)

If we managed to drastically trim the squad and wages whilst retaining good young talent I'd absolutely take it if there was promise of sustainable reinvestment and rebuilding to bounce back.


When Rotherham are your main threat to Championship survival and you then look at their wage bill compared to ours, questions over players being value for money must be asked. I have a feeling Jose has a network of players he wants to bring to the club either as loans or on contracts. He knows who he can sell to the raise funds needed and he knows who he'll keep. And he'll need to use the loan market again to help him get to where he/we need to be. I doubt if relegation has entered into his mind. The owners will invest if they can, and if FFP allows.

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