Value the Squad

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Denver Royal
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Re: Value the Squad

by Denver Royal » 25 May 2019 20:04

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Zip Gourlay was at the club for 16 months and precisely during the period when Loader’s contract should have been under review. Loader’s potential was well known so not to extend his contract at a time when other players contracts were being extended like confetti was short sighted.

Absolutely. It'd be criminal if he goes on a cut price deal/free because of the negligence yet again of the higher powers

Loader signed his first professional deal (under Gourlay) in August 2018.

Yep, and Gourlay himself then left 3 months later in mid-November.
Since then, I'd be surprised if Loader hasn't been offered an extension at some point, as we have given other grads, but that Loader refused it.
Either way, not sure how Gourlay can be blamed for this?

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Re: Value the Squad

by Zip » 25 May 2019 20:23

The contract should have been for longer than two years. Very short sighted. Gourlay out.

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Re: Value the Squad

by URZZZZ » 25 May 2019 21:34

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Gourlay was at the club for 16 months and precisely during the period when Loader’s contract should have been under review. Loader’s potential was well known so not to extend his contract at a time when other players contracts were being extended like confetti was short sighted.


Absolutely. It'd be criminal if he goes on a cut price deal/free because of the negligence yet again of the higher powers

He signed his first professional deal in August 2018 (it was agreed in June but couldn't come into force until his birthday).

Between then and Gourlay leaving, nothing changed. Loader's potential was already known but he didn't make any significant progress until that final October/November. During that time, we did give new contracts to several of our better young players like Osho , Nolan, McIntyre, and Southwood. It is very unusual for clubs to offer players contract extensions when they still have a long time to run, they signed a new contract recently, and the player hasn't been progressing. This wasn't a decision made because Gourlay didn't think young players should have their contracts renewed.

After Gourlay left, Loader stepped up and started making regular first team appearances. Historically that has been the point at which we have given out a new contract. The fact that Howe didn't get him to sign a new contract suggests that he doesn't want to. Either that or Gourlay and Howe both thought it wasn't worthwhile.


I wasn't really directly aiming at Gourley, I was sort of including all of the "higher powers", whoever that includes

Don't really keep up with that side of the game so I wouldn't really know. What I do know is that we shouldn't be in this position with Loader and it should have been sorted out

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Re: Value the Squad

by Zip » 25 May 2019 21:39

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Absolutely. It'd be criminal if he goes on a cut price deal/free because of the negligence yet again of the higher powers

He signed his first professional deal in August 2018 (it was agreed in June but couldn't come into force until his birthday).

Between then and Gourlay leaving, nothing changed. Loader's potential was already known but he didn't make any significant progress until that final October/November. During that time, we did give new contracts to several of our better young players like Osho , Nolan, McIntyre, and Southwood. It is very unusual for clubs to offer players contract extensions when they still have a long time to run, they signed a new contract recently, and the player hasn't been progressing. This wasn't a decision made because Gourlay didn't think young players should have their contracts renewed.

After Gourlay left, Loader stepped up and started making regular first team appearances. Historically that has been the point at which we have given out a new contract. The fact that Howe didn't get him to sign a new contract suggests that he doesn't want to. Either that or Gourlay and Howe both thought it wasn't worthwhile.


I wasn't really directly aiming at Gourley, I was sort of including all of the "higher powers", whoever that includes

Don't really keep up with that side of the game so I wouldn't really know. What I do know is that we shouldn't be in this position with Loader and it should have been sorted out


Yep.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Nameless » 26 May 2019 07:04

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Absolutely. It'd be criminal if he goes on a cut price deal/free because of the negligence yet again of the higher powers

He signed his first professional deal in August 2018 (it was agreed in June but couldn't come into force until his birthday).

Between then and Gourlay leaving, nothing changed. Loader's potential was already known but he didn't make any significant progress until that final October/November. During that time, we did give new contracts to several of our better young players like Osho , Nolan, McIntyre, and Southwood. It is very unusual for clubs to offer players contract extensions when they still have a long time to run, they signed a new contract recently, and the player hasn't been progressing. This wasn't a decision made because Gourlay didn't think young players should have their contracts renewed.

After Gourlay left, Loader stepped up and started making regular first team appearances. Historically that has been the point at which we have given out a new contract. The fact that Howe didn't get him to sign a new contract suggests that he doesn't want to. Either that or Gourlay and Howe both thought it wasn't worthwhile.


I wasn't really directly aiming at Gourley, I was sort of including all of the "higher powers", whoever that includes

Don't really keep up with that side of the game so I wouldn't really know. What I do know is that we shouldn't be in this position with Loader and it should have been sorted out


As said above it may well be sorted out to the satisfaction of the player. If Loader doesn’t want to sign another deal we can offer him millions, a new PlayStation and a year’s supply of Haribo and he will still not sign. If he is backing himself to get a move to a big club on big money then that’s his choice. He probably is right, if he’s available come January plenty of clubs will take a punt on him and he’ll get a big signing on fee and we’ll get a compensation fee below what we could get if we sell him now.


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Re: Value the Squad

by Snowflake Royal » 26 May 2019 08:39

Yeah. It takes two to sign a contract. There is no reason to believe we have screwed up here. Our record of offering youth players contracts is good.

Everyone has literally just been complaining about Gourlay giving out overly long overly valuable contracts to all and sundry and now they're saying we should have offered whatever it took to get Loader to sign a longer deal.

He's good. He's got bags of potential, but legs not go crazy. He hasn't left on a free or for a pittance.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Nameless » 26 May 2019 10:09

And the fact that there appears to be plenty of clubs interested means his contract status is probably irrelevant. Clubs won't wait a year to get him for just the compensation amount, if they want him they will have to compete financially for him. The main risk will be he agrees a deal privately with a club and simply refuses to talk to anyone else forcing our hand. If he did that I would be tempted to make him u23 captain and tell him he will be ever present for them next season....
I doubt he is that sort of player though.

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Re: Value the Squad

by maffff » 26 May 2019 18:30

Zip The contract should have been for longer than two years. Very short sighted. Gourlay out.

Would he have signed longer? Southwood only does short deals, despite the club offering longer. That's how he wants to operate.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Zip » 26 May 2019 18:33

maffff
Zip The contract should have been for longer than two years. Very short sighted. Gourlay out.

Would he have signed longer? Southwood only does short deals, despite the club offering longer. That's how he wants to operate.


That’s the question isn’t it? If Loader only wanted to sign for two years then there is nothing the hierarchy could do about it and my criticism of Gourlay would be unfair. We just don’t know for certain. When is Southwood’s contract due to expire btw?


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Re: Value the Squad

by maffff » 26 May 2019 19:13

Zip
maffff
Zip The contract should have been for longer than two years. Very short sighted. Gourlay out.

Would he have signed longer? Southwood only does short deals, despite the club offering longer. That's how he wants to operate.


That’s the question isn’t it? If Loader only wanted to sign for two years then there is nothing the hierarchy could do about it and my criticism of Gourlay would be unfair. We just don’t know for certain. When is Southwood’s contract due to expire btw?

2020, there's another contract on the table for him - he wants to see what we do this summer before extending, as long as there's a pathway and a plan he'll remain here. If he doesn't get the bench he wants a loan next season.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Zip » 26 May 2019 19:19

maffff
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maffff Would he have signed longer? Southwood only does short deals, despite the club offering longer. That's how he wants to operate.


That’s the question isn’t it? If Loader only wanted to sign for two years then there is nothing the hierarchy could do about it and my criticism of Gourlay would be unfair. We just don’t know for certain. When is Southwood’s contract due to expire btw?

2020, there's another contract on the table for him - he wants to see what we do this summer before extending, as long as there's a pathway and a plan he'll remain here. If he doesn't get the bench he wants a loan next season.


He deserves to be involved. Ideally we sell Walker and bring in Martinez with Southwood as our number two.

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Re: Value the Squad

by URZZZZ » 26 May 2019 19:23

Zip
maffff
Zip
That’s the question isn’t it? If Loader only wanted to sign for two years then there is nothing the hierarchy could do about it and my criticism of Gourlay would be unfair. We just don’t know for certain. When is Southwood’s contract due to expire btw?

2020, there's another contract on the table for him - he wants to see what we do this summer before extending, as long as there's a pathway and a plan he'll remain here. If he doesn't get the bench he wants a loan next season.


He deserves to be involved. Ideally we sell Walker and bring in Martinez with Southwood as our number two.


https://twitter.com/emimartinezz1/statu ... 7276912641

Speaking of Martinez, is this a hint...

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Re: Value the Squad

by maffff » 26 May 2019 19:25

Hopefully...


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Re: Value the Squad

by Zip » 26 May 2019 19:28

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maffff 2020, there's another contract on the table for him - he wants to see what we do this summer before extending, as long as there's a pathway and a plan he'll remain here. If he doesn't get the bench he wants a loan next season.


He deserves to be involved. Ideally we sell Walker and bring in Martinez with Southwood as our number two.


https://twitter.com/emimartinezz1/statu ... 7276912641

Speaking of Martinez, is this a hint...


Let’s hope so.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Denver Royal » 26 May 2019 20:29

maffff
Zip The contract should have been for longer than two years. Very short sighted. Gourlay out.

Would he have signed longer? Southwood only does short deals, despite the club offering longer. That's how he wants to operate.

What's the longest first pro-contract we've ever given a boy? Are we known to give out 3 or 4 year pro deals to 16-year-olds? Imagine we'd like to tie up Boyce-Clarke to one of those (if he's willing, which I doubt he would be).

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Re: Value the Squad

by SCIAG » 26 May 2019 21:42

16 year olds can't, strictly speaking, sign contracts- they have to wait until their 17th birthday. But that's semantics.

Three years is quite common for our better players - think that's what we gave Pearce, Tshibola, Kuhl, McIntyre, etc. Longest I can remember us giving out is 4 years to Craig Tanner. Gylfi only got one year though!

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Re: Value the Squad

by Snowflake Royal » 27 May 2019 08:03

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Zip
maffff 2020, there's another contract on the table for him - he wants to see what we do this summer before extending, as long as there's a pathway and a plan he'll remain here. If he doesn't get the bench he wants a loan next season.


He deserves to be involved. Ideally we sell Walker and bring in Martinez with Southwood as our number two.


https://twitter.com/emimartinezz1/statu ... 7276912641

Speaking of Martinez, is this a hint...

Jaakkola demonstrating that for any team that doesn't pass out from the back he's good enough at this level.

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Re: Value the Squad

by SCIAG » 27 May 2019 08:56

Jaakola's stats there are incredible.

Westwood has been the best goalkeeper in the league for nearly a decade so no surprise to see him top, and Randolph is Ireland's goalkeeper. But Jaakola (and Martinez for that matter) are ahead of Butland, Henderson, Krul, Camp, Johnstone, Castilla, etc.

There's probably a better way of measuring this (xG saved?) but at the very least it is a sign that these two deserve comparisons with goalkeepers of a better pedigree.

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Re: Value the Squad

by maffff » 27 May 2019 13:18

SCIAG Jaakola's stats there are incredible.

Westwood has been the best goalkeeper in the league for nearly a decade so no surprise to see him top, and Randolph is Ireland's goalkeeper. But Jaakola (and Martinez for that matter) are ahead of Butland, Henderson, Krul, Camp, Johnstone, Castilla, etc.

There's probably a better way of measuring this (xG saved?) but at the very least it is a sign that these two deserve comparisons with goalkeepers of a better pedigree.


Given he came on a free recommended by Sander Westerveld I guess he knew what he was recommending after all. Seemed like a weird one when we got him but won the South Africa golden gloves for a reason.

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Re: Value the Squad

by CountryRoyal » 27 May 2019 13:37

maffff
SCIAG Jaakola's stats there are incredible.

Westwood has been the best goalkeeper in the league for nearly a decade so no surprise to see him top, and Randolph is Ireland's goalkeeper. But Jaakola (and Martinez for that matter) are ahead of Butland, Henderson, Krul, Camp, Johnstone, Castilla, etc.

There's probably a better way of measuring this (xG saved?) but at the very least it is a sign that these two deserve comparisons with goalkeepers of a better pedigree.


Given he came on a free recommended by Sander Westerveld I guess he knew what he was recommending after all. Seemed like a weird one when we got him but won the South Africa golden gloves for a reason.


Is the reason the standard in the South Africa league is beyond abysmal?

All jokes aside as others have said, Jaakola has proved he’s a decent shot stopper but being a keeper is much more than that and he lacks other attributes deemed necessary these days, namely playing out from the back.

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