Are we screwed?

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linkenholtroyal
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Re: Are we screwed?

by linkenholtroyal » 07 Jun 2019 17:26

No I don’t think we are, I think we have just as supporters grown to expect more.

I think there will be signings this summer but we will be looking round the lower leagues, the odd prem starlet on loan once they have started there coming seasons squads and probably a foreign free agent or two.

The reason that it has not really started yet is that no one has been bought from the championship by a premiership team. This will then release funds in the league and start the merry go round of transfers.

At the moment I think 90% of the league is in the same boat as us waiting for something to happen.

We have already cleared some high earners off the books in the last 2 seasons. I wouldn’t be surprised if we were not working on some free agents. Bauer and that Scunthorpe lad spring to mind. I think once one or 2 go we will see some movement but not outlandish spending like we have been used to.
Maybe people on here just expect more but this feels more like the Reading way of old and I quite like it. More fun being the plucky underdog than the team expected to win every game. Maybe that is just me.

I look forward to next season and I am positive even with the current squad. Wouldn’t it be great to upset the odds again like we used to.

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Lower West
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Re: Are we screwed?

by Lower West » 07 Jun 2019 17:56

Crowbar6753 Luton - May start well but will get found out quickly. The Champ is a big step up in class.


Sheff United came up with a settled team with no outstanding individuals.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by marcusopp » 07 Jun 2019 18:26

andrew1957 Assuming that there are few if any signings I think we have to be realistic that if the squad as it is now can finish 21st or better next season that would be a success. Then at the end of next season another whole load of high earners will leave - which might provide a bit more wriggle room for new signings.

On two positive notes many other clubs will equally be affected by FFP and I assume this is why there have been few Championship signings so far. Maybe the Championship standard will be a good deal lower in the coming season - which will enable us to finish a tad higher. Secondly we have a strong Academy with lots of promising youngsters and if 3-4 can establish them next season that could set us up well for 2020/21.

The worries for me are whether the likes of Moore will want to stick around for another season of struggle and will Mr Gomes also be up for another tough season? And will the fans be patient as the club sorts out the finances?

It is all a bit of an unknown right now.

Good points. FFP was meant to 'level the playing field', but the gap is increasing. You're right that the overall standard of the championship will fall as clubs struggle to attract decent players, while Chelsea and Man City will continue to find loop-holes. Bit like politics this! Chelsea and City are the rich tory voters while the other clubs are all working class labour voters. At least we've got the moral high ground, albeit with bad football and a crap squad. Feel like i should have a northern accent now!!

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Re: Are we screwed?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jun 2019 18:35

Was it really meant to level the playing field? Restricting spending above your income could never be argued to level the playing field between Utd and Saints even.

Or was it meant to stop clubs spending beyond their means and risking players not getting paid and the brand reputation being damaged?

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Re: Are we screwed?

by CountryRoyal » 07 Jun 2019 19:30

Snowflake Royal Was it really meant to level the playing field? Restricting spending above your income could never be argued to level the playing field between Utd and Saints even.

Or was it meant to stop clubs spending beyond their means and risking players not getting paid and the brand reputation being damaged?


Neither. It was meant to protect the traditional big clubs’ status and standings and to mitigate any threats to their position from new money clubs like City and PSG.


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Re: Are we screwed?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jun 2019 19:31

CountryRoyal
Snowflake Royal Was it really meant to level the playing field? Restricting spending above your income could never be argued to level the playing field between Utd and Saints even.

Or was it meant to stop clubs spending beyond their means and risking players not getting paid and the brand reputation being damaged?


Neither. It was meant to protect the traditional big clubs’ status and standings and to mitigate any threats to their position from new money clubs like City and PSG.

Worked well.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by SCIAG » 07 Jun 2019 19:37

marcusopp
andrew1957 Assuming that there are few if any signings I think we have to be realistic that if the squad as it is now can finish 21st or better next season that would be a success. Then at the end of next season another whole load of high earners will leave - which might provide a bit more wriggle room for new signings.

On two positive notes many other clubs will equally be affected by FFP and I assume this is why there have been few Championship signings so far. Maybe the Championship standard will be a good deal lower in the coming season - which will enable us to finish a tad higher. Secondly we have a strong Academy with lots of promising youngsters and if 3-4 can establish them next season that could set us up well for 2020/21.

The worries for me are whether the likes of Moore will want to stick around for another season of struggle and will Mr Gomes also be up for another tough season? And will the fans be patient as the club sorts out the finances?

It is all a bit of an unknown right now.

Good points. FFP was meant to 'level the playing field', but the gap is increasing. You're right that the overall standard of the championship will fall as clubs struggle to attract decent players, while Chelsea and Man City will continue to find loop-holes. Bit like politics this! Chelsea and City are the rich tory voters while the other clubs are all working class labour voters. At least we've got the moral high ground, albeit with bad football and a crap squad. Feel like i should have a northern accent now!!

It's pretty hard to judge but I'd argue that the overall standard of the Championship has gone up massively in recent years. It's a very rich league and clubs don't have much problem attracting players. Players like Pogrebnyak, Drenthe, and Ola John would never have considered playing for a second-tier club 15 years ago (you could question how much good signing them actually did us but that's besides the point). What about Ruben Neves or Pablo Hernandez or Jonjo Shelvey or Jack Grealish? The only way a player like that would have played in the Championship in the Pardew/Coppell days was if they were someone like Glen Little whose ability was balanced out by a big weakness, or a young player like Ashley Young who wasn't going to be at that level for long.

I don't think any of this is due to FFP mind, I just don't think it's been as devastating to the quality of play as you might suggest.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by CountryRoyal » 07 Jun 2019 19:42

Snowflake Royal
CountryRoyal
Snowflake Royal Was it really meant to level the playing field? Restricting spending above your income could never be argued to level the playing field between Utd and Saints even.

Or was it meant to stop clubs spending beyond their means and risking players not getting paid and the brand reputation being damaged?


Neither. It was meant to protect the traditional big clubs’ status and standings and to mitigate any threats to their position from new money clubs like City and PSG.

Worked well.


It has in that regard. FFP came in after their investment. Whilst FFP exists we won’t see another club being bankrolled to that level of success (obviously), not under the current rules anyway.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by Wallsy » 07 Jun 2019 21:41

A fee is supposedly agreed for Oliveira, and now Norwich are in the Prem I can see us trying to spread the payments further as they won’t be crying out for the money up front. But as we’re hearing, we need to sell first in order to buy.

I’m fully expecting us to rely on youth next season, certainly 4-5 of the young lads playing a significant part. Perhaps a couple of loans to support them as well. I’m not expecting to see much in the way of money spent this summer.


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Re: Are we screwed?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jun 2019 22:36

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Neither. It was meant to protect the traditional big clubs’ status and standings and to mitigate any threats to their position from new money clubs like City and PSG.

Worked well.


It has in that regard. FFP came in after their investment. Whilst FFP exists we won’t see another club being bankrolled to that level of success (obviously), not under the current rules anyway.

We have seen the most extraordinary PL winner in decades and a more competitive fight for the top 4 though. And it hasn't prevented smaller clubs getting promoted.

I don't think you should be able to just buy your way to success with a rich sugar daddy. And the rich clubs being the best is nothing new, they're rich for the most part because they are the best.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by URZZZZ » 08 Jun 2019 01:03

Lower West
Crowbar6753 Luton - May start well but will get found out quickly. The Champ is a big step up in class.


Sheff United came up with a settled team with no outstanding individuals.


Agreed. Don't have the stats to back it up but IIRC the majority of teams that get promoted from League one into the championship end up surviving the next season

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Re: Are we screwed?

by seahawk10 » 08 Jun 2019 07:30

The youngsters need to come through. I wouldn't mind a season or two of surviving while clearing bloated contracts off the books but it seems like there is no end in sight to the financial woes.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by Hound » 08 Jun 2019 08:03

There should be an end to the financial woes. We were in an ok position before Gourlay and co ballsed up.

Just need to get into the next 3 year cycle of FFP. Couple of good player sales along the way will help


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Re: Are we screwed?

by Nameless » 08 Jun 2019 08:05

seahawk10 The youngsters need to come through. I wouldn't mind a season or two of surviving while clearing bloated contracts off the books but it seems like there is no end in sight to the financial woes.


Actually I think the opposite is the case. We’ve got a short term issue with the restrictions of FFP. This will go in a couple of seasons as the excessive contracts run out. We’re making the right moves. We’re not facing a fundamental collapse of the clubs finances like Bolton have and we’ve got rich owners who appear to be committed long term (as far as it is possible to know). We’ve got a good stream of young players ready to move into first team action.
We need to improve the commercial performance of the club to boost income and adding a few thousand to the gate by playing attractive football and winning more would be useful.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by maffff » 09 Jun 2019 15:26

Nameless
seahawk10 The youngsters need to come through. I wouldn't mind a season or two of surviving while clearing bloated contracts off the books but it seems like there is no end in sight to the financial woes.


Actually I think the opposite is the case. We’ve got a short term issue with the restrictions of FFP. This will go in a couple of seasons as the excessive contracts run out.


The worst of it, the £20m loss, disappears from the accounts after this coming season. Should be in a much more settled position then depending on the groundwork set up last season and this coming one. Won't allow extravagant expenditures, but we should have enough leeway to be competitive and build. Just need to get through this year.

Seems we can afford to keep Bowen, so that a positive start.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by maffff » 09 Jun 2019 15:28

Hound There should be an end to the financial woes. We were in an ok position before Gourlay and co ballsed up.


Yep, boom or bust after the playoff final, which was the first season diminished income given parachute payments ended then. Hilarious really when we see what we signed. At least that loss comes off the accounts after this coming year.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by 3points » 09 Jun 2019 16:19

Crowbar6753
Snowflake Royal We're in the same dangerous territory we've been in for years.

But a lot of the repairs have started. A tight, well motivated, drilled and dedicated squad can take you a long way in the Championship and there's plenty of promise in our Academy.

With the work we're doing, even if the worst happens and we go down we'll be much better placed to recover than we would have been this season.


My thoughts exactly, if we can keep Jose and trim the squad even more then i would be reasonably happy. With a smaller and more hungry squad with a full pre-season under their belts i really think we could push for a mid table finish. It would also be nice to see a few more youngsters having breakout seasons from the U-23s.
I would expect Loader and Oliese to featue more and to continue their improvement, and Rinhomota should get even better which is a huge plus, and anything else will be a bonus.
A fellow Nobber asked the question regarding three teams worse than us? Well its tough to pick three teams worse than us but i do believe theirs a group of maybe 6 teams in the same boat as us.

Wigan - Almost identical to us i believe.
QPR - Fell away badly at the end of last season which often spells danger.
Barnsley - Perennial YO-YO team.
Blackburn - Over achieved last season and may struggle.
Millwall - Same old Millwall lol. Lots of guts but not much class.
Luton - May start well but will get found out quickly. The Champ is a big step up in class.

I reckon you can add Charlton to that list, and possibly Birmingham and Sheff Weds. Birmingham will presumably be selling lots of players to keep FFP balanced this summer, including Che Adams. Sheff Weds have also started a big clear out thought you’d expect Bruce to keep them mid table regardless of players.

Overall FFP may have the benefit of teams reducing squad sizes which will create opportunities for academy players. This can only be good for English football in the long run.

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Re: Are we screwed?

by Denver Royal » 09 Jun 2019 16:31

3points
Crowbar6753
Snowflake Royal We're in the same dangerous territory we've been in for years.

But a lot of the repairs have started. A tight, well motivated, drilled and dedicated squad can take you a long way in the Championship and there's plenty of promise in our Academy.

With the work we're doing, even if the worst happens and we go down we'll be much better placed to recover than we would have been this season.


My thoughts exactly, if we can keep Jose and trim the squad even more then i would be reasonably happy. With a smaller and more hungry squad with a full pre-season under their belts i really think we could push for a mid table finish. It would also be nice to see a few more youngsters having breakout seasons from the U-23s.
I would expect Loader and Oliese to featue more and to continue their improvement, and Rinhomota should get even better which is a huge plus, and anything else will be a bonus.
A fellow Nobber asked the question regarding three teams worse than us? Well its tough to pick three teams worse than us but i do believe theirs a group of maybe 6 teams in the same boat as us.

Wigan - Almost identical to us i believe.
QPR - Fell away badly at the end of last season which often spells danger.
Barnsley - Perennial YO-YO team.
Blackburn - Over achieved last season and may struggle.
Millwall - Same old Millwall lol. Lots of guts but not much class.
Luton - May start well but will get found out quickly. The Champ is a big step up in class.

I reckon you can add Charlton to that list, and possibly Birmingham and Sheff Weds. Birmingham will presumably be selling lots of players to keep FFP balanced this summer, including Che Adams. Sheff Weds have also started a big clear out thought you’d expect Bruce to keep them mid table regardless of players.

Overall FFP may have the benefit of teams reducing squad sizes which will create opportunities for academy players. This can only be good for English football in the long run.

...and hopefully better for us, since we have an academy while other clubs don't.

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maffff
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Re: Are we screwed?

by maffff » 09 Jun 2019 18:13

Embargo ends tomorrow

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Re: Are we screwed?

by Snowflake Royal » 09 Jun 2019 19:30

maffff Embargo ends tomorrow

Give us a clue. Money in? Deadweight out?
Hired some FFP loophole lawyers?

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