Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by URZZZZ » 07 Jul 2019 16:06

The Enfield Royal71
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It wasn't a crazy claim. You know I am right and you can't admit it.

You said that players who have played in the championship before they were top players or after (Ashley Cole) are better then Shorey was just in the Championship.

You are therefore saying Daniel Carrico is in our best ever 11.

If I DD you are LL

Literally Laughable

:lol:


Jeez, you don’t half talk some rubbish


Thats 2 of you in the wrong camp then. I suppose this is another bashing session and if somebody else said it you would be sucking up to them.

I just can't believe you both think that Carrico would make our best ever 11 based on your LOLogic.


“Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience”

Thought that quote fitted perfectly with you

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by The Enfield Royal71 » 07 Jul 2019 16:38

URZZZZ
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URZZZZ
Jeez, you don’t half talk some rubbish


Thats 2 of you in the wrong camp then. I suppose this is another bashing session and if somebody else said it you would be sucking up to them.

I just can't believe you both think that Carrico would make our best ever 11 based on your LOLogic.


“Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience”

Thought that quote fitted perfectly with you


It's quite unbelievable that you are failing to see the terrible logic behind Ians "argument". I thought you were an academic person. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what I said and It is quite a normal thing to say yet mr literal comes along and has probably one of the most ridiculous statements on this website in a while

My statement = Shorey has been one of the top 5 left backs in the Championship.

ERGO

Of all the players who played left back in the championship and based on their form IN SAID league, and not based on how they played after or before their time in that the CHAMPIONSHIP, Shorey is one of the top 5 in my opinion.

Ians LOLogic = Shorey is not in the top 5 because Harte, Cole, Bridge, Bertrand etc who have played in the Championship for a small part of their careers but who played much better in other leagues or before or after they played in the Championship, so therefore were not that Great (Cole) were better then Shorey in the league called the CHAMPIONSHIP.

I honestly am utterly astonished how somebody that has a good knowledge of football like Ian has an opinion like this.

What he is saying is essentially that a player shouldn't be judged on their achievements in that league but based on completely unrelated achievements before or after.

He is saying Carrico should be in our best 11 even though at Reading he was terrible but he won multiple Europa Leagues at Sevilla.

This is honestly unbelievable.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by Hoop Blah » 07 Jul 2019 17:59

The Enfield Royal71 My statement = Shorey has been one of the top 5 left backs in the Championship.

ERGO

Of all the players who played left back in the championship and based on their form IN SAID league, and not based on how they played after or before their time in that the CHAMPIONSHIP, Shorey is one of the top 5 in my opinion.


That's not quite what you said to begin with, but granted it's possibly what you meant.

You do realise that Shorey only played two seasons in the Championship (both for us), plus a handful of games on loan at Forest. I can't say that puts him in the top 5 Championship left backs based on their form IN SAID league, and not based on how they played after or before their time in that the CHAMPIONSHIP.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jul 2019 17:59

SCIAG I understand what Enfield's saying.

If we go since the "formation" of the Championship in 2004 or whenever, then based on performances in the second tier I think Shorey would be up there with Fox, Baines, and young Gareth Bale. Probably a case for Bridge at Brighton.

Doubtless I've missed someone obvious.

Why on earth would football begin in 2004 though? It's not like Championship was anything but a name change.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by URZZZZ » 07 Jul 2019 18:17

The Enfield Royal71
URZZZZ
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It wasn't a crazy claim. You know I am right and you can't admit it.

You said that players who have played in the championship before they were top players or after (Ashley Cole) are better then Shorey was just in the Championship.

You are therefore saying Daniel Carrico is in our best ever 11.

If I DD you are LL

Literally Laughable

:lol:


Jeez, you don’t half talk some rubbish


Thats 2 of you in the wrong camp then. I suppose this is another bashing session and if somebody else said it you would be sucking up to them.

I just can't believe you both think that Carrico would make our best ever 11 based on your LOLogic.


The thing is I didn’t necessarily disagree with your original post. He’s certainly up there with one of the best championship left backs there’s been

Where I said you were talking rubbish is your ridiculous example of Carrico which had no relevance to the argument and a bizzare rant about working at drive thrus


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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by The Enfield Royal71 » 07 Jul 2019 18:23

URZZZZ
The Enfield Royal71
URZZZZ
Jeez, you don’t half talk some rubbish


Thats 2 of you in the wrong camp then. I suppose this is another bashing session and if somebody else said it you would be sucking up to them.

I just can't believe you both think that Carrico would make our best ever 11 based on your LOLogic.


The thing is I didn’t necessarily disagree with your original post. He’s certainly up there with one of the best championship left backs there’s been

Where I said you were talking rubbish is your ridiculous example of Carrico which had no relevance to the argument and a bizzare rant about working at drive thrus


The Carrico argument is definitely relevant since he is arguably one of the most successful players who has played for us in terms of what else he has achieved. Ian said that Ashley Cole is one of the best 5 left backs in the Championship based on everything he achieved before his 4 month stint this past season :lol:

I'm still waiting for Mr Literal to answer the question properly based on players form only in the Championship.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by Hoop Blah » 07 Jul 2019 19:31

The Enfield Royal71 The Carrico argument is definitely relevant since he is arguably one of the most successful players who has played for us in terms of what else he has achieved. Ian said that Ashley Cole is one of the best 5 left backs in the Championship based on everything he achieved before his 4 month stint this past season :lol:


Whereas you picked a player who only played two seasons in the Championship, during one of which his peers voted George McCartney as his superior.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by AthleticoSpizz » 07 Jul 2019 19:42

Ok, so given DDs point (which I also get) McCartney is just one

Shorey was most definitely up there, hence our promotion and hence his two England caps (which imho, weren’t totally based on his Premier appearances)

Those of that certain persuasion will argue otherwise

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by Hoop Blah » 07 Jul 2019 20:27

AthleticoSpizz Shorey was most definitely up there, hence our promotion and hence his two England caps (which imho, weren’t totally based on his Premier appearances)


Don't get me wrong I think Shorey was outstanding for us for about 3 seasons, but I don't think his performances in the Championship really contributed to his call up at the end of our first season in the Premier League as I don't think McLaren really would've paid much interest to them (they wouldn't have done his standing or chances any harm of course, because he was outstanding in 05-06, IF anyone really bothered to consider them).


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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by AthleticoSpizz » 07 Jul 2019 20:32

Seem to recall McClaren being (at least) at one of those championship games tbf....then of course, then came Capello

The mind gets jaded....14/15 years ago now :shock:

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by SCIAG » 07 Jul 2019 21:37

AthleticoSpizz Seem to recall McClaren being (at least) at one of those championship games tbf....then of course, then came Capello

The mind gets jaded....14/15 years ago now :shock:

Sven was England manager when we were in the Championship.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by SCIAG » 07 Jul 2019 21:57

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SCIAG I understand what Enfield's saying.

If we go since the "formation" of the Championship in 2004 or whenever, then based on performances in the second tier I think Shorey would be up there with Fox, Baines, and young Gareth Bale. Probably a case for Bridge at Brighton.

Doubtless I've missed someone obvious.

Why on earth would football begin in 2004 though? It's not like Championship was anything but a name change.

Oh yeah, it's arbitrary and meaningless. Don't think it's entirely without merit though - it covers a period which is approximately the length of a player's career, and there's probably an argument to be made that human memory (crap at the best of times) stops being worth a damn after much longer. Football also changed dramatically over time which makes comparisons difficult.

Probably the most relevant thing is that a large portion of our fan base started attending in the last 15 years, and certainly nobody could hope to compare the whole existence of the second tier. If you're going to stick an arbitrary marker down then make it one everyone can recognise at least.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by Hoop Blah » 07 Jul 2019 21:57

SCIAG
AthleticoSpizz Seem to recall McClaren being (at least) at one of those championship games tbf....then of course, then came Capello

The mind gets jaded....14/15 years ago now :shock:

Sven was England manager when we were in the Championship.


McLaren was his assistant though, and was the manager who called Shorey up for his couple of caps.


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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Jul 2019 08:37

Wait. Do people think Shorey wasnt one of the best LBs the championship has seen?

I get the argument of "players who have played at least once in the championship but are or were better than Shorey in their prime" might merit inclusion (like Cole who was clearly the best LB any league in England has ever seen) but DD isnt wrong is he? Shorey was a phenomenal player. Better than Bertrand and around the same level as Harte and Bridge.

This is based on ability right? Not silverware?

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by URZZZZ » 08 Jul 2019 09:06

NewCorkSeth Wait. Do people think Shorey wasnt one of the best LBs the championship has seen?

I get the argument of "players who have played at least once in the championship but are or were better than Shorey in their prime" might merit inclusion (like Cole who was clearly the best LB any league in England has ever seen) but DD isnt wrong is he? Shorey was a phenomenal player. Better than Bertrand and around the same level as Harte and Bridge.

This is based on ability right? Not silverware?


Shorey tampered his reputation by the situation in which he left us and then his half-arsed performances at the end of the Prem season. I think it leaves a bitter taste in people. For what it's worth, I disagree with DD that "anyone in his position would have his head turned". Because that's just not true is it

Not many people would argue he's one of the best Championship LB's. He had a lot of attributes in his locker and was a joy to watch with Convey in front. Where I said DD was talking rubbish was where he went off in a complete tangent (and ridiculous insults)

Out of interest, are you comparing Bertrand, Shorey, Harte and Bridge in their prime? Or at their time with us. Because I don't think Shorey touched Harte or Bridge in their prime whereas I thought Shorey was much better than Harte in his time here

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Jul 2019 09:09

URZZZZ
NewCorkSeth Wait. Do people think Shorey wasnt one of the best LBs the championship has seen?

I get the argument of "players who have played at least once in the championship but are or were better than Shorey in their prime" might merit inclusion (like Cole who was clearly the best LB any league in England has ever seen) but DD isnt wrong is he? Shorey was a phenomenal player. Better than Bertrand and around the same level as Harte and Bridge.

This is based on ability right? Not silverware?


Shorey tampered his reputation by the situation in which he left us and then his half-arsed performances at the end of the Prem season. I think it leaves a bitter taste in people. For what it's worth, I disagree with DD that "anyone in his position would have his head turned". Because that's just not true is it

Not many people would argue he's one of the best Championship LB's. He had a lot of attributes in his locker and was a joy to watch with Convey in front. Where I said DD was talking rubbish was where he went off in a complete tangent (and ridiculous insults)

Out of interest, are you comparing Bertrand, Shorey, Harte and Bridge in their prime? Or at their time with us. Because I don't think Shorey touched Harte or Bridge in their prime whereas I thought Shorey was much better than Harte in his time here

Prime! You really think Shorey and Harte were miles apart at their respective peaks? Harte obviously had his incredible dead ball ability which does make him seem a lot better than he was. (Not in a negative way he was a good footballer by any standard). Bridge was slightly better but not by much.

But Bertrand vs Shorey? That's Shorey surely.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by URZZZZ » 08 Jul 2019 09:14

NewCorkSeth
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NewCorkSeth Wait. Do people think Shorey wasnt one of the best LBs the championship has seen?

I get the argument of "players who have played at least once in the championship but are or were better than Shorey in their prime" might merit inclusion (like Cole who was clearly the best LB any league in England has ever seen) but DD isnt wrong is he? Shorey was a phenomenal player. Better than Bertrand and around the same level as Harte and Bridge.

This is based on ability right? Not silverware?


Shorey tampered his reputation by the situation in which he left us and then his half-arsed performances at the end of the Prem season. I think it leaves a bitter taste in people. For what it's worth, I disagree with DD that "anyone in his position would have his head turned". Because that's just not true is it

Not many people would argue he's one of the best Championship LB's. He had a lot of attributes in his locker and was a joy to watch with Convey in front. Where I said DD was talking rubbish was where he went off in a complete tangent (and ridiculous insults)

Out of interest, are you comparing Bertrand, Shorey, Harte and Bridge in their prime? Or at their time with us. Because I don't think Shorey touched Harte or Bridge in their prime whereas I thought Shorey was much better than Harte in his time here

Prime! You really think Shorey and Harte were miles apart at their respective peaks? Harte obviously had his incredible dead ball ability which does make him seem a lot better than he was. (Not in a negative way he was a good footballer by any standard). Bridge was slightly better but not by much.

But Bertrand vs Shorey? That's Shorey surely.


Harte > Bridge > Shorey+Bertrand is how I'd put it

Shorey and Bertrand both played for similar sized clubs, both got similar levels of international caps (I think) and are both good footballers but just not enough to take them to the top

Not miles apart but I'd say Harte was quite a bit better

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Jul 2019 09:25

URZZZZ
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Shorey tampered his reputation by the situation in which he left us and then his half-arsed performances at the end of the Prem season. I think it leaves a bitter taste in people. For what it's worth, I disagree with DD that "anyone in his position would have his head turned". Because that's just not true is it

Not many people would argue he's one of the best Championship LB's. He had a lot of attributes in his locker and was a joy to watch with Convey in front. Where I said DD was talking rubbish was where he went off in a complete tangent (and ridiculous insults)

Out of interest, are you comparing Bertrand, Shorey, Harte and Bridge in their prime? Or at their time with us. Because I don't think Shorey touched Harte or Bridge in their prime whereas I thought Shorey was much better than Harte in his time here

Prime! You really think Shorey and Harte were miles apart at their respective peaks? Harte obviously had his incredible dead ball ability which does make him seem a lot better than he was. (Not in a negative way he was a good footballer by any standard). Bridge was slightly better but not by much.

But Bertrand vs Shorey? That's Shorey surely.


Harte > Bridge > Shorey+Bertrand is how I'd put it

Shorey and Bertrand both played for similar sized clubs, both got similar levels of international caps (I think) and are both good footballers but just not enough to take them to the top

Not miles apart but I'd say Harte was quite a bit better

Fair enough! I think Shorey played at a time when England had a world class player in Cole so was never going to get enough attention to elevate himself.

I reckon England are going to have a similar problem now with RB. TAA and AWB are going to see off most competition for that position for the foreseeable.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Jul 2019 13:06

NewCorkSeth Wait. Do people think Shorey wasnt one of the best LBs the championship has seen?

I get the argument of "players who have played at least once in the championship but are or were better than Shorey in their prime" might merit inclusion (like Cole who was clearly the best LB any league in England has ever seen) but DD isnt wrong is he? Shorey was a phenomenal player. Better than Bertrand and around the same level as Harte and Bridge.

This is based on ability right? Not silverware?

He's undoubtedly one of the best players I've seen at Reading. And a very good LB in general. But tier 2 has been running 70 years just post war. Football didn't begin in 2004 or the 90s. There have been a helluva of a lot of quality LBs in that time. Many who have been more successful than Shorey.

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Re: Nick Shorey joins Accademy as Scout

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Jul 2019 13:12

Snowflake Royal
NewCorkSeth Wait. Do people think Shorey wasnt one of the best LBs the championship has seen?

I get the argument of "players who have played at least once in the championship but are or were better than Shorey in their prime" might merit inclusion (like Cole who was clearly the best LB any league in England has ever seen) but DD isnt wrong is he? Shorey was a phenomenal player. Better than Bertrand and around the same level as Harte and Bridge.

This is based on ability right? Not silverware?

He's undoubtedly one of the best players I've seen at Reading. And a very good LB in general. But tier 2 has been running 70 years just post war. Football didn't begin in 2004 or the 90s. There have been a helluva of a lot of quality LBs in that time. Many who have been more successful than Shorey.

Right but take successful out. We are talking ability. Pure ability. I'm sure there are tens of LBS in that time who, in their day, were better than those around them to a comparable degree with modern football, but they were all on the pints half the time. Its impossible to compare them.

Its like Lev Yashin. Revolutionised the way GKS are seen and probably was a phenomenal, natural athlete but if you "magically transported" him to the modern game would he stack up against the best in the world? Probably not.

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