BFTG - Sheffield

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Delboy
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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Delboy » 04 Aug 2019 06:38

After a good pre season this result could be a blessing in disguise, no one played well. But still time to recruit in transfer window, feel we need an experienced goalie, Al Habsburg for a season , no fee !

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CountryRoyal
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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by CountryRoyal » 04 Aug 2019 06:51

It’s not the result that’s most disappointing but that performance was a long way off something resembling a team capable of staying in this division. Absolutely hopeless with little to no creativity and quality going forward, lumbering and slow in the midfield and soft stupid mistakes defensively. I’m fed up of seeing away fans come come to the Madejski and celebrate easy wins without having to do anything special, we make it so unbelievably easy for them. Especially nothing middle order teams like Sheffield bloody Wednesday.

Now yes, I know it’s just one game, and not writing anyone off yet (except Virginia, he’s actually toilet and not ready for this level of football - who would have thought putting a child in goal was a bad idea :roll:, if we’re going to do that I’d rather use ours!) but watching that it’s difficult to see where the improvements are going to come from.

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by gazzer, loyal royal » 04 Aug 2019 07:43

Interestingly I got told yesterday that had McIntyre trained during the week he would have started ahead of Miazga, probably why Moore played on the right

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by The Enfield Royal71 » 04 Aug 2019 08:12

Seems we are all in agreement that Virginia is not ready for this league, is too young, inexperienced and short and we need a solution asap.

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Elm Park Kid » 04 Aug 2019 08:21

It just goes to show how luck we were being able to bring in Martinez in last season. And how much of a battle we have that we only just avoiding relegation with him performing at such a high level.

If we want to stay in the league we need a minimum of a left-back and striker.


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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Aug 2019 08:27

RoyalBlue
P!ssed Off
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I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion the keeper was shite. There is nothing Virginia could have done with the goals and he saved what he could.


Could have saved the 1st goal.

2nd goal appeared straight at him.
Looked like he was down slowly for the 3rd goal, and not his fault but he's too short to save anything heading towards the corners.


On what basis do you say he could have saved the 1st goal? Might as well throw that out at any keeper. Second goal straight at him? Might have been close to him but from close range and with great power. Only a lucky reflex save would've kept that out.

Too short to save anything heading towards corners - the biggest bollocks of the three claims you make. A) He is 6 foot 3 so by no means short. That sort of height (and indeed a lot shorter) does not prevent a good keeper diving to the extreme of their goal. Indeed, being 'shorter' can be an advantage for ground shots.

On the basis that the first goal was almost right at him and it hit his hand going in between arm and body.

Sorry, but that is a clear goalkeeping error.

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Hound » 04 Aug 2019 08:29

Again just watching the highlights, so can’t judge on his overall performance - nothing JV could have done about any of the goals - not a chance. How people can blame him for the second is beyond me - Alison Becker wouldn’t have laid a finger on that

All 3 were poor defending - but some sympathy in the third as MM looked knackered and it was a very good goal. The first and second really should not happen at this level

Fair to say despite an obviously disjointed performance we were a little unlucky? The handball non penalty was a ridiculously poor match changing decision. Barrow would likely have scored on the red card situation

Still sounds like Gomes made some poor tactical decisions (tbf tactics aren’t really his best point), and this week will be impt as to who we can bring in

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Hound » 04 Aug 2019 08:30

Snowflake Royal
RoyalBlue
P!ssed Off
Could have saved the 1st goal.

2nd goal appeared straight at him.
Looked like he was down slowly for the 3rd goal, and not his fault but he's too short to save anything heading towards the corners.


On what basis do you say he could have saved the 1st goal? Might as well throw that out at any keeper. Second goal straight at him? Might have been close to him but from close range and with great power. Only a lucky reflex save would've kept that out.

Too short to save anything heading towards corners - the biggest bollocks of the three claims you make. A) He is 6 foot 3 so by no means short. That sort of height (and indeed a lot shorter) does not prevent a good keeper diving to the extreme of their goal. Indeed, being 'shorter' can be an advantage for ground shots.

On the basis that the first goal was almost right at him and it hit his hand going in between arm and body.

Sorry, but that is a clear goalkeeping error.


Nah - did nothing wrong, was a good finish.

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by URZZZZ » 04 Aug 2019 08:30

leon
URZZZZ
leon
Sorry Jack but that’s horseshit.

Losing 3-1 to that team is not OK.

He came on when we were struggling at home against a fairly mediocre side having created very little and spent most of the game passing the ball in our own half aimlessly. He tried to change things.

That he was one of our better players (name anyone who was better / don’t say Swift he was, as always ineffectual) speaks volumes.


Sorry but you're deluded if you think Adam was better than Swift. Swift was by far our best player and that's coming from someone who doesn't really rate him (funny how Swift has had very little credit for his pass to Yiadom for the handball shot btw). Richards and Virginia aside, the other 8 starters ranged from shocking to poor


What did Swift actually do? Ok he played one ball to Yiadom. And? He didn’t affect the midfield at all, we we were overrun and we didn’t create anything from the midfield.

Adam played some actual passes to players that meant we were in an attacking position.

What did Swift actually do?


The impetus is always on the midfield to create. But for a midfielder to create, you need the attackers to move. Of the four attackers, Meite was the only one to move. Loader and Barrett just stood still and I have no idea what Barrow was doing. Swift made the best of a bad situation

But him and Rino aren’t the solution to the two holding midfielders. That’s obvious. That and a striker is an absolute must before Thursday


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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Aug 2019 08:31

BR0B0T
RoyalBlue
Snowflake Royal Though he flapped at the second and I knew where the third was going several seconds before it went there, so he should have been able to get there, even to the corner.


'Flapped at the second' ? Yes, a powerful header from close range that would've left most, if not all, keepers flapping and would only have been kept out by a lucky reflex save. And someone else, criticises him and says he would've saved it had he not moved!! :roll:

As for you, Mystic Meg, knowing where the third was going several seconds before it went there........ :roll: :roll:



'greed! A real rocket of a header!

...and as for mystic- megging the third Ian, I'm guessing you saw it from the televised angle, where you get to see the striker's body movement. IIRC the defender blocks this from the keeper so he can't react fast enough.

Not at all. I saw it from the stand directly behind Virginia. And it was obvious his first touch would be to turn Miazga and then fire it into that corner.

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by URZZZZ » 04 Aug 2019 08:33

Hound Again just watching the highlights, so can’t judge on his overall performance - nothing JV could have done about any of the goals - not a chance. How people can blame him for the second is beyond me - Alison Becker wouldn’t have laid a finger on that

All 3 were poor defending - but some sympathy in the third as MM looked knackered and it was a very good goal. The first and second really should not happen at this level

Fair to say despite an obviously disjointed performance we were a little unlucky? The handball non penalty was a ridiculously poor match changing decision. Barrow would likely have scored on the red card situation

Still sounds like Gomes made some poor tactical decisions (tbf tactics aren’t really his best point), and this week will be impt as to who we can bring in


The third goal had been coming the whole of added time. It was an embarrassing effort to get back into the game once they had gone to ten men. It took us about three minutes to get the ball out the corner from them and then as soon as we got it, Adam would either kick it off the pitch (hence more time wasting) or we’d kick it straight into the goalies arms. Meite’s cross in added time was horrendous in a real promising situation as well. We seem to struggle to break teams down who sit back or have less numbers than us

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Hound » 04 Aug 2019 08:35

Fair enough. Just from the comms sounded like we were going nowhere in added time

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by BR0B0T » 04 Aug 2019 08:38

Snowflake Royal
BR0B0T
RoyalBlue
'Flapped at the second' ? Yes, a powerful header from close range that would've left most, if not all, keepers flapping and would only have been kept out by a lucky reflex save. And someone else, criticises him and says he would've saved it had he not moved!! :roll:

As for you, Mystic Meg, knowing where the third was going several seconds before it went there........ :roll: :roll:



'greed! A real rocket of a header!

...and as for mystic- megging the third Ian, I'm guessing you saw it from the televised angle, where you get to see the striker's body movement. IIRC the defender blocks this from the keeper so he can't react fast enough.

Not at all. I saw it from the stand directly behind Virginia. And it was obvious his first touch would be to turn Miazga and then fire it into that corner.


fair enough m8!

In. My. Face!


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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Hound » 04 Aug 2019 08:45

Courtney seems to have dug something up suggesting we are interested in signing the Sampdoria reserve keeper interestingly

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Aug 2019 08:46

After sleeping on it, I think the things that frustrate me the most are just how disorganised we looked.

Barrett struggled IMO because we had no shape up front. Multiple times Barrow came out to the left and essentially got in his way. Meite wandered between right and upfront, Loader between No. 10 and wide right.

Unless you have world class players you can't afford two three or five players floating around without a disciplined position. It's why Weds picked us off so comfortably. Because no one knew where half our players would be at any given time. Too often we had gaping holes in our shape that Weds could exploit. Particularly down our right defensive channel.

Too often we marked space and left players free.

This all comes about from not having an actual striker. On that showing Barrow isn't up to leading the line. He couldn't hold up the ball. He spent too long running over to play on the left.

If we want to do well we need to be disciplined and organised. We were very far from that.

The players are mostly good enough. On another day Yiadom scores or we get a penalty, or Barrow puts away the rebound. Confidence grows and we get at least a draw.

But keep playing that way and we will get very few points from any experienced teams.

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Aug 2019 08:47

Hound Courtney seems to have dug something up suggesting we are interested in signing the Sampdoria reserve keeper interestingly

Because Virginia looks like a child in goal no doubt.

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by SCIAG » 04 Aug 2019 08:49

The benefits of being a pessimist are that you can lose 3-1 and not be disappointed.

The uncontrollable out the way first: Wednesday handled the ball on the line without the referee seeing it. Should really have been a goal if they hadn't cheated, as they did cheat then it should have been a red and a penalty. Also thought the referee let the tactical fouling go unpunished a bit too long.

In terms of structure, I don't think the 4-2-2-2 really worked. Would prefer a 4-3-3... but then, we don't have enough midfielders. Barrett had a reasonable game but we didn't offer enough of an attacking threat, we didn't get behind them very often and we didn't put dangerous balls into the box. We had "fluidity" in the sense that nobody knew where they were playing, but not in the sense of being difficult to mark or using space intelligently. Yiadom and Richards pushed very high in order to give us some width, which left us exposed a few times and contributed to the second goal. Thought Richards had a good game though. We look very reliant on Meite, nobody else was going to put the ball in the net.

Player ratings:

Virginia 5.5 - impressed by how commanding he was in the box, but could have dealt better with some of the shots. Definitely not ruling him out but he'll be disappointed by that debut.
Yiadom 5 - ineffective going forward and a defensive liability which Wednesday exploited.
Miazga 6 - one really good block
Moore 5 - probably his worst game for us, some really significant errors.
Richards 6 - not great going forward but didn't get exposed defensively, which was a real possibility given he had Barrett and Swift in front of him. One excellent tackle harshly given as a foul.
Rinomhota 6.5 - drew a lot of fouls through his good ball carrying, but misplaced a pass before the first goal.
Swift 6.5 - adapted quite well to the new role. Protected the ball very well in a couple of tight spaces and put in one very good tackle. Played some clever passes but nothing particularly significant.
Loader 4.5 - not at all comfortable on the right wing. Slowed down our counter attacks and didn't offer any attacking threat.
Barrett 6 - really good pass for the goal and tracked back quite well. Needs to offer a little bit more of a threat.
Barrow 5 - did well for the red card but otherwise didn't offer enough. Down the left please.
Meite 6.5 - took his goal well and should have had another but for the cheating. Also missed a few headed chances.

Olise 6 - clearly has vision and class. More please.
Adam 6 - could have been much worse. Some good passes although needs to calibrate a bit better.
Nova - no time

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by yuomi » 04 Aug 2019 09:05

We couldn't have wished for a better opening opponent than SW at home. Same financial issues, soft transfer embargoes, league scrutiny, and even worse in that they've no manager and, according to one forum, are 'a club in disarray'. How painfully unsurprising then to get Royally (because it's what we do) turned over by them.

A few random thoughts:

What Virginia lacks more than anything is command of his area and awareness. I'm sure he's a fine shot stopper (when his arms don't cross), but he's painfully, obviously lacking in game time at any level. Emi was always talking, encouraging, rallying. Virginia can throw up his arms as well as anyone, but that's not the same thing. Everyone's annoyed when we concede, the gk needs to be on his defenders to stop vulnerabilities repeating. These things can only come from experience, and given the way our defence looks we cannot afford to have a keeper who's learning as he goes.

There's still no plan b against a high press. We're kidding ourselves if we think this isn't the way every single team is going to set up against us. Getting caught dithering sideways and backwards at the back is going to be good for 15+ goals against this season.

We look exhausted. Yids I can understand given his African commitments, but Moore was puffing from minute 10 or so and no-one looked that comfortable after the half hour mark. Fine, it was a warm(ish) day, but I still wonder about our conditioning.

It's only one game, and on a number of occasions breaks could have gone our way that completely transformed it in our favour and we'd be sitting here with quite a different perspective. But it's difficult to see where the changes are going to come from that right the many obvious wrongs with this squad's imbalance and lack of quality...

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Aug 2019 09:06

SCIAG The benefits of being a pessimist are that you can lose 3-1 and not be disappointed.

The uncontrollable out the way first: Wednesday handled the ball on the line without the referee seeing it. Should really have been a goal if they hadn't cheated, as they did cheat then it should have been a red and a penalty. Also thought the referee let the tactical fouling go unpunished a bit too long.

In terms of structure, I don't think the 4-2-2-2 really worked. Would prefer a 4-3-3... but then, we don't have enough midfielders. Barrett had a reasonable game but we didn't offer enough of an attacking threat, we didn't get behind them very often and we didn't put dangerous balls into the box. We had "fluidity" in the sense that nobody knew where they were playing, but not in the sense of being difficult to mark or using space intelligently. Yiadom and Richards pushed very high in order to give us some width, which left us exposed a few times and contributed to the second goal. Thought Richards had a good game though. We look very reliant on Meite, nobody else was going to put the ball in the net.

Player ratings:

Virginia 5.5 - impressed by how commanding he was in the box, but could have dealt better with some of the shots. Definitely not ruling him out but he'll be disappointed by that debut.
Yiadom 5 - ineffective going forward and a defensive liability which Wednesday exploited.
Miazga 6 - one really good block
Moore 5 - probably his worst game for us, some really significant errors.
Richards 6 - not great going forward but didn't get exposed defensively, which was a real possibility given he had Barrett and Swift in front of him. One excellent tackle harshly given as a foul.
Rinomhota 6.5 - drew a lot of fouls through his good ball carrying, but misplaced a pass before the first goal.
Swift 6.5 - adapted quite well to the new role. Protected the ball very well in a couple of tight spaces and put in one very good tackle. Played some clever passes but nothing particularly significant.
Loader 4.5 - not at all comfortable on the right wing. Slowed down our counter attacks and didn't offer any attacking threat.
Barrett 6 - really good pass for the goal and tracked back quite well. Needs to offer a little bit more of a threat.
Barrow 5 - did well for the red card but otherwise didn't offer enough. Down the left please.
Meite 6.5 - took his goal well and should have had another but for the cheating. Also missed a few headed chances.

Olise 6 - clearly has vision and class. More please.
Adam 6 - could have been much worse. Some good passes although needs to calibrate a bit better.
Nova - no time



This here highlights the exact problem we have. Two people went to the game and watched the match. SCIAG thinks Loader was supposed to be playing right wing. I think he was supposed to be playing No. 10. Three of our front four were actually playing 'oxf*rd knows' where.

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Re: BFTG - Sheffield

by Zip » 04 Aug 2019 09:18

Youmi’s comments concern me. Surely our players are match fit? Why are they looking knackered well before full time? The one thing we know about the Championship is that teams need to be fit.

Part of the problem seems to be we do not know the best position for certain players. Is Meite best playing on the wing? What is Loader’s best position? I have no idea. Was Swift really playing in a CDM role for the first half? Surely not.

We had a very young side playing yesterday. It must have been one of the youngest sides we have played at this level. I’m not sure that’s wise. I don’t see how we can leave someone capable of captaining a team that finished higher up the table on the bench? It seems odd we bought Morrison when we were clearly looking to bring in Miazga too and have McIntyre playing really well.

Early days but this lot must be as fit as other teams otherwise we will see a repeat of Stam’s second season and lots of late goals conceded.

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