Will we get found out again?

The Royal Forester
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by The Royal Forester » 21 Aug 2019 15:29

Snowball
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Hendo
Tbf, Swift scored right after GP went off/missed, so it is realistic to say the penalty would've been the 4th :wink:

Who's to say there would have been a penalty, had Pucas scored? When he missed, the game restarted with a goal kick by a Cardiff player, had he scored the game would have restarted with a kick off by a Reading player. Therefore, from THAT POINT ONWARDS THE ENTIRE PATTERN OF PLAY for the rest of the match would have been different. This is something fans (me included) don't think about when they say "If we had scored that penalty we would have won." "If their offside goal wasn't allowed, we would have got a point" etc.



You miss the point. We dominated and could have had 4 or 5 goals

The question was simply, "If we'd scored five, what would went be thinking?"

Sorry, Snowball, but I was replying to Hendo's remark. It would not be realistic to say the penalty would have been the forth, because it would never have happened. I get the point that we dominated and could have had 4 or 5 goals, but there again, with the change in the pattern of play they could have scored a lucky goal, against the run of play. Not likely with how we dominated, I know, but as was said, by one of footballs greats "Football's a funny old game".

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Hendo
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by Hendo » 21 Aug 2019 15:39

Yeah my comment was just a bit of a throwaway comment...

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Ascotexgunner
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by Ascotexgunner » 21 Aug 2019 15:43

Lets just see. Certainly this is almost a new beginning/new team etc and its bloody exciting.
Its clear there are plan b's but how some players adapt to that we will have to wait and see. The likes of Swift clearly thrive in Saturdays formation and counter attacking football but can he do the same if we change it back and play as we did in the opening two games. The past suggests not, but then again we have "new player options" which may help him out so its all positive.
If we do get a run on injuries I think that will be the big test. Lose Ejaria or Puscas or Miazga/Morrison and then we have to see how we whether the storm and fill those holes.
I really think we are on the up, even if we lose tonight, because theres just an air that things are changing for the better.

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Re: Will we get found out again?

by Danny Nedelko » 21 Aug 2019 15:50

Snowball The question was simply, "If we'd scored five, what would went be thinking?"


Simple question :lol:

It's one game, if we can replicate it again then who knows where we will finish, but optimism will quite rightly be rife!

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Re: Will we get found out again?

by Millsy » 22 Sep 2019 13:27

2 world wars, 1 world cup 5-3-2/3-5-2 demolished Cardiff, and we clearly have the players to do it justice.

Stam had only one plan, worked for a time until we were found out, with no plan B.

I'm worried this may work for a short while but at some point it will be effectively neutralised and we'll struggle without another plan.

1) Do we
a) have a second plan and
b) have the players for that plan (eg where are our wingers)?

2) Of course, a team with a plan good enough and players good enough can ideally carry on doing their own thing regardless and force teams to have to react eg Colin is no fool and he tried to respond, but failed. Are we potentially too good anyway to have to worry?

Discuss.



Perfect time to revisit this. Have we been found out?


windermereROYAL
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by windermereROYAL » 22 Sep 2019 13:31

Shut down Swift and Ejaria which Blackburn did in numbers yesterday and there is not much else.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Sep 2019 14:06

So here's where I think our problem is, and what was the key to our improvement, slight though it was, last season.

Baker.

Last season, Baker came in and was just an all round good midfielder. He was strong, he could tackle and he could pass. But his passing wasn't extravagant or flash, he didn't beat lots of players with fancy footwork or intricate skill. He played it simple and direct. And when I say direct, I don't mean long, I mean with a purpose and forward.

For most of our improved period he was paired with Rinomhota. He also keeps his passing simple yet positive. He shields the ball well. He tracks and tackles.

This IMO was our best midfield in some time. Two decent all rounders who play it simple and with intent, but also work hard defensively.

By contrast, we now have a midfield consisting of Pele, who is anchored to the defence and not good at tracking. We have Swift and Ejaria who are over intricate, love to take three players on and try to thread the ball through the eye of the needle and aren't very strong or good at tracking back.

Gomes is trying to run before he can walk and has too much flair in his side. Between excessively attacking wing backs, two strikers and two attacking midfielders we have six attackers and no defensive shape beyond the centre backs.

We need more cover at full back, Moore simply can't cover that space. And we need more presence in midfield.

When it clicks and they're given space Ejaria and Swift will destroy teams. But there are far too few Championship sides who will let them play.

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krapmle
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by krapmle » 22 Sep 2019 15:02

Snowflake Royal So here's where I think our problem is, and what was the key to our improvement, slight though it was, last season.

Baker.

Last season, Baker came in and was just an all round good midfielder. He was strong, he could tackle and he could pass. But his passing wasn't extravagant or flash, he didn't beat lots of players with fancy footwork or intricate skill. He played it simple and direct. And when I say direct, I don't mean long, I mean with a purpose and forward.

For most of our improved period he was paired with Rinomhota. He also keeps his passing simple yet positive. He shields the ball well. He tracks and tackles.

This IMO was our best midfield in some time. Two decent all rounders who play it simple and with intent, but also work hard defensively.

By contrast, we now have a midfield consisting of Pele, who is anchored to the defence and not good at tracking. We have Swift and Ejaria who are over intricate, love to take three players on and try to thread the ball through the eye of the needle and aren't very strong or good at tracking back.

Gomes is trying to run before he can walk and has too much flair in his side. Between excessively attacking wing backs, two strikers and two attacking midfielders we have six attackers and no defensive shape beyond the centre backs.

We need more cover at full back, Moore simply can't cover that space. And we need more presence in midfield.

When it clicks and they're given space Ejaria and Swift will destroy teams. But there are far too few Championship sides who will let them play.


but snowflake aka hypocrite, last week you were rude and obnoxious and told me we have massively improved each game. You cannot be taken seriously. you seem to move the goalposts quite a bit.

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krapmle
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by krapmle » 22 Sep 2019 15:08

2 world wars, 1 world cup
2 world wars, 1 world cup 5-3-2/3-5-2 demolished Cardiff, and we clearly have the players to do it justice.

Stam had only one plan, worked for a time until we were found out, with no plan B.

I'm worried this may work for a short while but at some point it will be effectively neutralised and we'll struggle without another plan.

1) Do we
a) have a second plan and
b) have the players for that plan (eg where are our wingers)?

2) Of course, a team with a plan good enough and players good enough can ideally carry on doing their own thing regardless and force teams to have to react eg Colin is no fool and he tried to respond, but failed. Are we potentially too good anyway to have to worry?

Discuss.



Perfect time to revisit this. Have we been found out?


and the next hypocrite. Comment last week from mr childish name after I suggested Reading were poor

Worst trolling ever.


Millsy
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by Millsy » 22 Sep 2019 17:45

krapmle
2 world wars, 1 world cup
2 world wars, 1 world cup 5-3-2/3-5-2 demolished Cardiff, and we clearly have the players to do it justice.

Stam had only one plan, worked for a time until we were found out, with no plan B.

I'm worried this may work for a short while but at some point it will be effectively neutralised and we'll struggle without another plan.

1) Do we
a) have a second plan and
b) have the players for that plan (eg where are our wingers)?

2) Of course, a team with a plan good enough and players good enough can ideally carry on doing their own thing regardless and force teams to have to react eg Colin is no fool and he tried to respond, but failed. Are we potentially too good anyway to have to worry?

Discuss.



Perfect time to revisit this. Have we been found out?


and the next hypocrite. Comment last week from mr childish name after I suggested Reading were poor

Worst trolling ever.


The trolling is getting worse mate and I’ve no time for it.

Time for another addition to the ignore list. Sorry old boy, nice knowing you.

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krapmle
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by krapmle » 22 Sep 2019 19:41

you don't need to apologise, I feel sorry for you. You are pathetic and childish.

URZZZZ
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by URZZZZ » 22 Sep 2019 19:46

krapmle You are pathetic and childish.


How ironic coming from you

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by NewCorkSeth » 23 Sep 2019 07:55

Do we all agree the answer to this was yes?


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John Smith
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by John Smith » 23 Sep 2019 10:47

NewCorkSeth Do we all agree the answer to this was yes?

I would agree with your agreement, Seth.

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by NewCorkSeth » 23 Sep 2019 10:58

John Smith
NewCorkSeth Do we all agree the answer to this was yes?

I would agree with your agreement, Seth.

If only there was a poster on HNA? who agreed with things as a speciality.

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John Smith
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by John Smith » 23 Sep 2019 11:03

NewCorkSeth
John Smith
NewCorkSeth Do we all agree the answer to this was yes?

I would agree with your agreement, Seth.

If only there was a poster on HNA? who agreed with things as a speciality.

I disagree. I like the variety of a healthy debate.

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Re: Will we get found out again?

by URZZZZ » 09 Oct 2019 00:31

NewCorkSeth Do we all agree the answer to this was yes?


Now Gomes has gone, wonder what people's opinions on this are

Was Cardiff a fluke?
Was it simply the element of surprise?
Or have we been unlucky since Huddersfield?
Was it all about scoring the first goal?
Is it the mentality of the players?
Or was Gomes simply not suited to Championship football?

Old Man Andrews

Re: Will we get found out again?

by Old Man Andrews » 09 Oct 2019 09:27

URZZZZ
NewCorkSeth Do we all agree the answer to this was yes?


Now Gomes has gone, wonder what people's opinions on this are

Was Cardiff a fluke?
Was it simply the element of surprise?
Or have we been unlucky since Huddersfield?
Was it all about scoring the first goal?
Is it the mentality of the players?
Or was Gomes simply not suited to Championship football?

Fairly obviously it was all of the above............

Hound
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Re: Will we get found out again?

by Hound » 09 Oct 2019 09:31

I don't think Cardiff was a fluke as such. I think we did surprise them with our set up and played well. We did again against WBA.

The problem is, teams then watched us and picked up the weaknesses of the system. Ie do whatever to stop the ball getting to Swift and Ejaria in space, and attack behind our FBs. Gomes then didn't react to this.

You could see how Charlton picked this up during the game, and by the end they were all over us. Blackburn from the start, and it was actually embarrassing at times in that game.

But yeah otherwise yes to everything

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