Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

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Gomes in or out?

In
68
55%
Out
56
45%
 
Total votes: 124
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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Hound » 07 Oct 2019 12:20

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SCIAG If we can get someone with a proven track record like Hughton or Hughes then that's one thing. But I suspect we'd just get another journeyman off the merry-go-round and be in the same position in 12 months. Stam was our chance to break the cycle but look what happened there.

If you don't think Mark Hughes is 'another journeyman' and would be a totally incorrect appointment then your head is well and truly in the sand. Which, going off most of your posts, is likely to be the case.


Hughes built a decent Stoke team up including the likes of Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnautovic and also kept Southampton up a couple of seasons ago. Certainly wouldn’t be a bad appointment. I’d rather others, but I’d still be happy. You do spout some nonsense sometimes


Have to agree tbh. Don't like him a lot, but he has benefits. He is actually a manager, not a coach. A genuinely different approach might actually wake some of the players up a bit. Has plenty of experience. Would not make statements like ' I can't see us losing another game' or whatever it was.

He is a 'journeyman' but maybe thats what we need atm. After all there are other 'journeymen' around who are doing a decent job - Bruce at Sheff Weds and now Newcastle, Hodgson, Warburton at QPR, Mowbray at Blackburn for example

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by krapmle » 07 Oct 2019 12:20

Hughes would be a solid choice to stabilise the situation and avoid relegation

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by royalp-we » 07 Oct 2019 12:32

Sparky is a better option than Parky imo.

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by RoyalBlue » 07 Oct 2019 12:36

AthleticoSpizz
SCIAG I think sacking the manager is both ineffective and not the sort of club I want us to be.

If we can get someone with a proven track record like Hughton or Hughes then that's one thing. But I suspect we'd just get another journeyman off the merry-go-round and be in the same position in 12 months. Stam was our chance to break the cycle but look what happened there.

Let's give someone a chance for once. Imagine if we'd sacked Coppell after that dreadful run in his second season?
this, let’s give Gomes that chance.


Exactly. The second half performance against Bristol was really strong (just as against Cardiff we look so much better when we really take the game to the opposition) and shows we're not that far away from things clicking in our favour.

I'm sure that during the second half at Bristol I was by no means alone in thinking it was only a question of time before we got the equaliser and possibly went on to grab the winner. It was only our strikers missing a couple of sitters, poor officiating and a brilliant save from Bentley that prevented us from doing so. Lee Johnson and, I suspect most of the home support, were mightily relieved when the final whistle went. Johnson was very complimentary about us and, both before and after the game, stressed the benefit of continuity in management (he is now the longest serving manager in The Championship). Indeed he pointed out that earlier during his reign the fans were calling for his head (I can remember us joyously singing 'Sacked In The Morning' when Yann led that great comeback).

Perhaps those calling for Gomes' head would care to list those clubs that have attained success by repeatedly sacking their managers when they have had just a season or so (in Gomes' case just 3/4 of a season) in charge.

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Oct 2019 12:44

Maneki Neko I do get the end of the year/give him a chance as it allows someone else to come in and rescue the season.

however I'm a bit wary of that. if you brought the right man in now who was able to sort out the defence and make us solid, we could already be midtable by December and ready to actually push for playoffs in the new year
if we let it slide till December and nothing chnages, rescuing the season is the only option.

This is it isn't it. Yet another shit first half followed by reduced standards and just enough to survive to go into next season struggling again.

The earlier the change the bigger the turnaround, the better things can be next season rather than start from scratch and be shit again.

Bored of the cycle of:
This season will be different
We're shit
We're really shit
Sacking
We're still shit
We narrowly survive
Spend lots of money on lots of signings
This season will be different
We're shit...


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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Hound » 07 Oct 2019 12:49

RoyalBlue
AthleticoSpizz
SCIAG I think sacking the manager is both ineffective and not the sort of club I want us to be.

If we can get someone with a proven track record like Hughton or Hughes then that's one thing. But I suspect we'd just get another journeyman off the merry-go-round and be in the same position in 12 months. Stam was our chance to break the cycle but look what happened there.

Let's give someone a chance for once. Imagine if we'd sacked Coppell after that dreadful run in his second season?
this, let’s give Gomes that chance.


Exactly. The second half performance against Bristol was really strong (just as against Cardiff we look so much better when we really take the game to the opposition) and shows we're not that far away from things clicking in our favour.

I'm sure that during the second half at Bristol I was by no means alone in thinking it was only a question of time before we got the equaliser and possibly went on to grab the winner. It was only our strikers missing a couple of sitters, poor officiating and a brilliant save from Bentley that prevented us from doing so. Lee Johnson and, I suspect most of the home support, were mightily relieved when the final whistle went. Johnson was very complimentary about us and, both before and after the game, stressed the benefit of continuity in management (he is now the longest serving manager in The Championship). Indeed he pointed out that earlier during his reign the fans were calling for his head (I can remember us joyously singing 'Sacked In The Morning' when Yann led that great comeback).

Perhaps those calling for Gomes' head would care to list those clubs that have attained success by repeatedly sacking their managers when they have had just a season or so (in Gomes' case just 3/4 of a season) in charge.


I'm not sure its a great argument though. How many teams have actually had success by sticking with underpar managers who are making things up as they go along?

Johnson has done pretty well, but they haven't actually achieved anything. They haven't even made the POs

There are other teams who have gone down after sticking with dodgy managers too long as well, whereas had they made the change sooner, they may have stayed up.

There isnt a hard one rule suits for everyone. Basically if you think Gomes is the man for the Job - then fine. He obviously has good qualities, is a likeable guy and did what was needed last year. I wouldn't criticise people for saying give him a chance, there is merit to that

Personally I just don't think he is, or ever will be, up to the job we need him to do now. Plenty of reasons, but I think tactically he is very poor, naive and idealistic, and the aura of optimism he brought in has died a death. I don't see it coming back, and he is just 'throwing darts' at the team selection, hoping one hits the bullseye. No real planning behind his decisions. He did do well last year, but realistically you look at our squad with the likes of Martinez, Baker, Miazga and Ejaria compared to an awful Ipswich, a Bolton club in bits, and a very low quality Rotherham side who bottled every game from Christmas on, and it'd be a travesty if we'd gone down,

Its not that I want us to keep sacking managers, or don't think we need stability. I'm sure that is true of everyone on here. Its just Gomes just isn't very good. Which is suggested in his career record. Sometimes you need to realise that and try to correct it before it is too late.

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by krapmle » 07 Oct 2019 12:57

second half we were strong, second half of the season will be better. Sorry, what nonsense.
We have been losing all our games this season by p*ss poor first half performances. Half time game over.

We need first half performances and some indication that things are positively changing, to date nothing zero zilch.
All indications are second half of the season will be no different from the first.

So maybe the question should be:

if you knew now that this will continue for the rest of the season, would you call for his sacking?

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Getthebeerens » 07 Oct 2019 12:58

Tricky one to answer at the moment.....

On one hand I believe continuously sacking managers is doing us no favours in moving forward as a team. We are not being well beaten (Apart from Fulham) by sides and seem to be losing by "narrow margins". You would like to think that if we continue to play as we are doing eventually the luck will change and we will start coming out with positive results.

On the other hand, we keep conceding early in every match and are playing far to open. I don't think Jose has actually changed much tactically to address this issue for me. And ultimately the other managers who failed had a lot less budget than he has had. We have a good side now and for me it's not down to a lack of quality anymore.

I think he has 5 games to get 10+ points and if that's not achieved he will be gone.

As an alternative fix , would love the club to get in a defensive coach or even someone to work with the players on the mental aspect of there game. We need to restore that fight we had at the end of last season.

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Oct 2019 13:00

Agree Hound.

Give reasons it might work. Other managers at other clubs at other times aren't reasons. It has to be about what Gomes is doing and has done. What our circumstances are now.

For example, if we were down to just one or two senior midfielders, centrebacks or forwards due to injury. If Gomes had addressed any of our problems.

Bristol packing up shop in nerves given a poor home record (from what the commos said) and letting us play slowly and ineffectually without really threatening doesn't count as an improvement IMO.

Our squad has needed a good sports psychologist since Coppell left, bar the McDermott good years.


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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Forbury Lion » 07 Oct 2019 13:20

royalp-we Sparky is a better option than Parky imo.
and worth 1 point extra at scrabble.

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Forbury Lion » 07 Oct 2019 13:28

Snowflake Royal Our squad has needed a good sports psychologist since Coppell left, bar the McDermott good years.
Interesting that you mention that.

On the recent BBC Berks Reading FC podcast interview with Coppell, He said at the start of the 106 season he said to Wally Downes "we need to do something different this season that nobody else is doing", WD having been on an FA course said they did this evaluation thing with some consultants, So SC got the board to fund this consultant who came in and did tests on all the staff (players too, I think) and his evaluation was the kit man Ron Grant was the most important member of SC's staff because he speaks to the players everyday.
SC didn't tell RG this, but he would from time to time ask RG his opinion on things.

I wonder if Gomes knows who his most important member of staff is and whose opinion he should listen to? - I doubt it's his Portugese number 2 as I imagine he thinks the same as Gomes and isn't going to offer a different opnion........might be John O'Shea as he was one of the team until this season?

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Hound » 07 Oct 2019 13:32

on other small thing. He has won 25 of his last 105 games across 4 clubs. Thats awful.

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Victor Meldrew » 07 Oct 2019 13:38

Listening to the radio just now there was discussion about the underachieving Portuguese manager.
The club is in the relegation zone
The team doesn't score enough goals
The manager/ club has spent a lot recently on players
The team sits back early on in games.

For Everton read Reading-will they sack their manager/will we sack our manager.??


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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by URZZZZ » 07 Oct 2019 13:40

Snowflake Royal Agree Hound.

Give reasons it might work. Other managers at other clubs at other times aren't reasons. It has to be about what Gomes is doing and has done. What our circumstances are now.

For example, if we were down to just one or two senior midfielders, centrebacks or forwards due to injury. If Gomes had addressed any of our problems.

Bristol packing up shop in nerves given a poor home record (from what the commos said) and letting us play slowly and ineffectually without really threatening doesn't count as an improvement IMO.

Our squad has needed a good sports psychologist since Coppell left, bar the McDermott good years.


Well, Bristol had only won 1 home game all season, including a draw to lowly Middlesbrough. So all in all, it was a poor result

All a team has to do currently is pressure us at the start, pamper our box with crosses, get an early goal and then sit back because we’ll pass it around slowly for the rest of the game. We may create one or two chances a game as a result of our passing but don’t worry, Puscas will miss anyway. Notice how most of our key chances on Saturday came from just getting it in the box btw. A long throw, Ejaria chance from the corner, Meites chance from the corner. But we’ll just keep passing it around the back four, because that’ll help

Gomes deserves credit for what he’s done but the hypocrisy of people and the lengths people will go to to not concede an argument is staggering

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Old Man Andrews » 07 Oct 2019 13:51

URZZZZ
Snowflake Royal Agree Hound.

Give reasons it might work. Other managers at other clubs at other times aren't reasons. It has to be about what Gomes is doing and has done. What our circumstances are now.

For example, if we were down to just one or two senior midfielders, centrebacks or forwards due to injury. If Gomes had addressed any of our problems.

Bristol packing up shop in nerves given a poor home record (from what the commos said) and letting us play slowly and ineffectually without really threatening doesn't count as an improvement IMO.

Our squad has needed a good sports psychologist since Coppell left, bar the McDermott good years.


Well, Bristol had only won 1 home game all season, including a draw to lowly Middlesbrough. So all in all, it was a poor result

All a team has to do currently is pressure us at the start, pamper our box with crosses, get an early goal and then sit back because we’ll pass it around slowly for the rest of the game. We may create one or two chances a game as a result of our passing but don’t worry, Puscas will miss anyway. Notice how most of our key chances on Saturday came from just getting it in the box btw. A long throw, Ejaria chance from the corner, Meites chance from the corner. But we’ll just keep passing it around the back four, because that’ll help

Gomes deserves credit for what he’s done but the hypocrisy of people and the lengths people will go to to not concede an argument is staggering


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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Hound » 07 Oct 2019 13:54

URZZZZ
Snowflake Royal Agree Hound.

Give reasons it might work. Other managers at other clubs at other times aren't reasons. It has to be about what Gomes is doing and has done. What our circumstances are now.

For example, if we were down to just one or two senior midfielders, centrebacks or forwards due to injury. If Gomes had addressed any of our problems.

Bristol packing up shop in nerves given a poor home record (from what the commos said) and letting us play slowly and ineffectually without really threatening doesn't count as an improvement IMO.

Our squad has needed a good sports psychologist since Coppell left, bar the McDermott good years.


Well, Bristol had only won 1 home game all season, including a draw to lowly Middlesbrough. So all in all, it was a poor result

All a team has to do currently is pressure us at the start, pamper our box with crosses, get an early goal and then sit back because we’ll pass it around slowly for the rest of the game. We may create one or two chances a game as a result of our passing but don’t worry, Puscas will miss anyway. Notice how most of our key chances on Saturday came from just getting it in the box btw. A long throw, Ejaria chance from the corner, Meites chance from the corner. But we’ll just keep passing it around the back four, because that’ll help

Gomes deserves credit for what he’s done but the hypocrisy of people and the lengths people will go to to not concede an argument is staggering


yep. Without trying to come over all Mr Reasonable, I do understand why people would want to keep him and look for positives in how we'r playing. We all wanted him to do well after the end of last season. I don't want to go down the Denver route of criticising others for having a viewpoint

I do fall a bit into the camp (and its been hinted at by opposition managers as well) that we do have quality players and we should have periods where we dominate games. But we don't create a lot of chances regardless of what Gomes said. Think the highlights I saw was Puscas bungle, some scramble thing and a Boye shot from 25 yards, which whilst a good effort, was comfortably saved and solely as a result of a decent bit of skill a long way out

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by URZZZZ » 07 Oct 2019 14:10

Hound
URZZZZ
Snowflake Royal Agree Hound.

Give reasons it might work. Other managers at other clubs at other times aren't reasons. It has to be about what Gomes is doing and has done. What our circumstances are now.

For example, if we were down to just one or two senior midfielders, centrebacks or forwards due to injury. If Gomes had addressed any of our problems.

Bristol packing up shop in nerves given a poor home record (from what the commos said) and letting us play slowly and ineffectually without really threatening doesn't count as an improvement IMO.

Our squad has needed a good sports psychologist since Coppell left, bar the McDermott good years.


Well, Bristol had only won 1 home game all season, including a draw to lowly Middlesbrough. So all in all, it was a poor result

All a team has to do currently is pressure us at the start, pamper our box with crosses, get an early goal and then sit back because we’ll pass it around slowly for the rest of the game. We may create one or two chances a game as a result of our passing but don’t worry, Puscas will miss anyway. Notice how most of our key chances on Saturday came from just getting it in the box btw. A long throw, Ejaria chance from the corner, Meites chance from the corner. But we’ll just keep passing it around the back four, because that’ll help

Gomes deserves credit for what he’s done but the hypocrisy of people and the lengths people will go to to not concede an argument is staggering


yep. Without trying to come over all Mr Reasonable, I do understand why people would want to keep him and look for positives in how we'r playing. We all wanted him to do well after the end of last season. I don't want to go down the Denver route of criticising others for having a viewpoint

I do fall a bit into the camp (and its been hinted at by opposition managers as well) that we do have quality players and we should have periods where we dominate games. But we don't create a lot of chances regardless of what Gomes said. Think the highlights I saw was Puscas bungle, some scramble thing and a Boye shot from 25 yards, which whilst a good effort, was comfortably saved and solely as a result of a decent bit of skill a long way out


It depends how people infer “dominate”. Some people think having ball possession constitutes domination, others don’t. Even against Cardiff, two of our goals came from their set pieces. It shows you don’t need to pass the ball fifty times before creating a chance. Just move the ball forward

But I do tend to ignore managers comments because most are just soundbites, you wouldn’t expect a manager to come out and say “Saturday should be an easy win” no matter if they think it

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Denver Royal » 07 Oct 2019 15:19

Ascotexgunner Give me an argument why he should stay. The "we keep sacking managers" arguement is not a positive reason. That won't change our position.

.
hughsies no.1 Would be a bad decision to get rid of Gomes now IMHO despite an awful start to the season - which obviously cannot be ignored.

Reasons why i think he should get until the end of the year to turn it around -

- 8 new signings: that is wholesale change again and doesn't all click in to place overnight, this is now Gomes' squad and we have seen glimpses of the team working together. Gomes does need to nail down a team though, as clearly still doesn't know his best XI

- Creating chances: it's not like we are coming away from these defeats waving a white flag when we go behind. If it wasn't for the poor finishing (sadly Puscas) we would have gone in at HT 1up vs Charlton, got a point at Charlton, arguably won at Swansea, drawn at Bristol. Ok, all if buts and maybes but it is not like we are not creating these chances and surely is only a matter of time

- Time: if it doesn't work out by the end of December there is still time for someone to come in and keep us up (as proven last season) and also allows for replacement to make a few signings in January if needed

- Togetherness: despite the results, Mad Stad atmosphere has changed dramatically under Gomes (C1871 clearly played a huge part but without the results on the pitch last season it wouldn't be as prominent as it is now)

- Replacement: who would we get, for me - Parky/ Ainsworth or Hughes wouldn't be the answer and there are no Dean Smith types that Villa astutely appointed last season to come in. So I don't see anyone out there at present. Suggestions welcome...

I get results are not how we want them, but if we were losing every week 3-0 / 4-0 with no shots on target etc and lack of fight I would be first to want him gone.

Give him until the end of December.

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by Maneki Neko » 07 Oct 2019 15:56

krapmle Hughes would be a solid choice to stabilise the situation and avoid relegation
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:|

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Re: Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

by royalsroyalsroyals92 » 07 Oct 2019 16:26

This has been written about Gomes so far and what to do next.

I personally think he sould given time - but not enough time that we could be sunk into league one.

https://viewtvnews.com/the-story-so-far-jose-gomes/

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