CONFIMRED - Mark Bowen

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Vision
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Re: CONFIMRED - Mark Bowen

by Vision » 07 Sep 2020 14:52

Snowflake Royal That's an assertion you really can't back up Vision.

Gomes had us in the relegation zone iirc and Clement wasn't far off. With a change of the nature made having virtually no chance of obtaining the promotion.


Lol. Well since you issued the challenge I'll give it a go ;-)

The point isn't that the person coming in will deliver playoffs that season more that the incumbent manager definitely won't. Or that's the M.O Dai has operated under.

Even Bowen's harshest critics wouldn't think we'd be in a relegation fight this season. He was given a contract extention at the point where his stock was highest and we'd moved to within a few points of the playoffs at New Year. Clearly post extention then Dai has decided that isn't the case. Bowen gets binned.

Likewise neither Gomes nor Clement were expected to deliver promotion the season they were appointed. Both fulfilled the remit of taking teams that a lot of the fanbase thought were relegation doomed and saved them. In fact the one thing both men did manage to achieve was to show they could turnaround teams and scramble to safety.

The following season Clement got sacked less than halfway through the season (after a big summer outlay ) despite us not being in the relegation zone. And Gomes had only 11 games of the following season (2 of which were before the big summer outlay ) before he was gone.

Who knows maybe this new guy is the one who finally gets a full season to build a team without the added pressure of the Owner's Promotion expectations but I said those very same would just a few weeks ago in relation to Bowen and we all know whats just happened.

I'd say that's the assertion that at this moment in time has nothing to back it up.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: CONFIMRED - Mark Bowen

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Sep 2020 17:43

Vision
Snowflake Royal That's an assertion you really can't back up Vision.

Gomes had us in the relegation zone iirc and Clement wasn't far off. With a change of the nature made having virtually no chance of obtaining the promotion.


Lol. Well since you issued the challenge I'll give it a go ;-)

The point isn't that the person coming in will deliver playoffs that season more that the incumbent manager definitely won't. Or that's the M.O Dai has operated under.

Even Bowen's harshest critics wouldn't think we'd be in a relegation fight this season. He was given a contract extention at the point where his stock was highest and we'd moved to within a few points of the playoffs at New Year. Clearly post extention then Dai has decided that isn't the case. Bowen gets binned.

Likewise neither Gomes nor Clement were expected to deliver promotion the season they were appointed. Both fulfilled the remit of taking teams that a lot of the fanbase thought were relegation doomed and saved them. In fact the one thing both men did manage to achieve was to show they could turnaround teams and scramble to safety.

The following season Clement got sacked less than halfway through the season (after a big summer outlay ) despite us not being in the relegation zone. And Gomes had only 11 games of the following season (2 of which were before the big summer outlay ) before he was gone.

Who knows maybe this new guy is the one who finally gets a full season to build a team without the added pressure of the Owner's Promotion expectations but I said those very same would just a few weeks ago in relation to Bowen and we all know whats just happened.

I'd say that's the assertion that at this moment in time has nothing to back it up.

Bowen certainly doesn't fit the pattern, but I'd say that's just because it's madness.

I'm afraid I remain firmly unconvinced unless you have some sort of insider knowledge rather than just extrapolating from what's happened. If you do have insider knowledge I'd defer to you for sure though.

All the talk and pressure at the time of Gomes and Clement went was about us being in danger of relegation and needing to do something to avoid it. Certainly from the fan perspective. And historically, Bowen is arguably the second manager we've sacked where there was no real signs of a risk of relegation alongside McDermott 2 since I've been around. Maybe Adkins and Burns too, though there did seem a risk at the time, if a less clear one iirc.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Mark Bowen

by Vision » 08 Sep 2020 10:01

Snowflake Royal
Vision
Snowflake Royal That's an assertion you really can't back up Vision.

Gomes had us in the relegation zone iirc and Clement wasn't far off. With a change of the nature made having virtually no chance of obtaining the promotion.


Lol. Well since you issued the challenge I'll give it a go ;-)

The point isn't that the person coming in will deliver playoffs that season more that the incumbent manager definitely won't. Or that's the M.O Dai has operated under.

Even Bowen's harshest critics wouldn't think we'd be in a relegation fight this season. He was given a contract extention at the point where his stock was highest and we'd moved to within a few points of the playoffs at New Year. Clearly post extention then Dai has decided that isn't the case. Bowen gets binned.

Likewise neither Gomes nor Clement were expected to deliver promotion the season they were appointed. Both fulfilled the remit of taking teams that a lot of the fanbase thought were relegation doomed and saved them. In fact the one thing both men did manage to achieve was to show they could turnaround teams and scramble to safety.

The following season Clement got sacked less than halfway through the season (after a big summer outlay ) despite us not being in the relegation zone. And Gomes had only 11 games of the following season (2 of which were before the big summer outlay ) before he was gone.

Who knows maybe this new guy is the one who finally gets a full season to build a team without the added pressure of the Owner's Promotion expectations but I said those very same would just a few weeks ago in relation to Bowen and we all know whats just happened.

I'd say that's the assertion that at this moment in time has nothing to back it up.

Bowen certainly doesn't fit the pattern, but I'd say that's just because it's madness.

I'm afraid I remain firmly unconvinced unless you have some sort of insider knowledge rather than just extrapolating from what's happened. If you do have insider knowledge I'd defer to you for sure though.

All the talk and pressure at the time of Gomes and Clement went was about us being in danger of relegation and needing to do something to avoid it. Certainly from the fan perspective. And historically, Bowen is arguably the second manager we've sacked where there was no real signs of a risk of relegation alongside McDermott 2 since I've been around. Maybe Adkins and Burns too, though there did seem a risk at the time, if a less clear one iirc.


The fact the managers are getting removed earlier and earlier in the season suggests it's not the threat of relegation that's foremost in the decision making process. FWIW I don't think you're under any "Real Risk of relegation" just 11 games into a season anyway unless you're completely cut off already which we weren't .

Just lost another long post probably for the best ;-) but in short:-

After Jan1st , Bowen's last 21 games have yielded 20 points.

For reference.

Stam's last 21 also yielded 20 points
Gomes' and Clement's last 21 games both yielded 19 points.


What makes Bowen's sacking and replacement with someone with no quantifiable evidence they can do any better, more or less mad than the previous ones ?

Bowen didn't have a transfer window I guess (though as DOF you'd think he had some input into the summer '19 recruitment) but this new guy gets to start the season with a fresh slate.

Other than that and going back to the point I was originally replying to, IF we do have another large summer outlay like the previous one then the new guy ( like his predecessors) will be under pressure to deliver promotion.

If that doesn't look like happening at around the halfway mark then his position will be in danger. Mid table safety or not.

To be clear , I personally don't subscribe to the current owners M.O but I'm a little surprised that so many people think what's just happened is somehow a bolt out of the blue when the it's merely just a progression of what's gone before. Owners don't invest the vast sums ours have to not at least be challenging for promotion.

We may not agree with it but it certainly shouldn't surprise us.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: CONFIMRED - Mark Bowen

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Sep 2020 12:04

Restart games should be given less weight. And Bowen had a much better record than Gomes or Clement prior to those.

It was pretty clear we were heading one way only under Gomes.

I think it's clear neither of us are convincing the other. Makes a refreshing change not just agreeing with everything you say Vision. :lol:
Last edited by Snowflake Royal on 08 Sep 2020 12:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Mark Bowen

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Sep 2020 12:05

LOL.


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