Finance

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Finance

by Snowflake Royal » 09 May 2020 19:41

tmesis
Snowflake Royal Independent content creators would massively benefit on streaming and video services.

There's absolutely tons of copyright abuse stifling creativity there with big rights owners taking revenue from them.

Tom Scott has a pretty good video on why copyright law is horrendous given modern technology and industry.

It can be pretty draconian on youtube, but part of that is the inability to mediate. If a rights holder claims copyright infringement then that's it.

Get hit with three strikes and your channel is taken down.

There have even been videos where people have been talking about abuses of copyright law, and defending musicians who've been accused of copying, and been told their video is infringing the copyright of the band they were defending.



The principle of it though is that some people think they should be able to take somebody else's work without credit or payment, or even make money from it. And that's what it boils down to. Songs aren't just things that bands happen to own, that they can exploit. They created it. If you don't want to pay the price for an album, or even 99p for a digital download of a song, then don't pay it. Just don't whinge that it's your right to able to get it for free, because it isn't, nor should it be.


I bet if I started a channel on youtube, and just lifted the content of one of these independent creators, and monetised it, they'd be furious.

This isn't really the place so I'll leave it with this... you seem to be conflating pirating current or recent content with adapting it and with the copyright duration.

No one has suggested copyright shouldn't exist at all.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Finance

by Snowflake Royal » 09 May 2020 19:42

muirinho
Snowflake Royal Independent content creators would massively benefit on streaming and video services.

There's absolutely tons of copyright abuse stifling creativity there with big rights owners taking revenue from them.

Tom Scott has a pretty good video on why copyright law is horrendous given modern technology and industry.


I know a professional, award-winning, musician who has toured the world and played in huge arenas.

But she has another full-time job, because she can't live off her earnings from music.

When she makes a track, she pays for recording time, producers, backing musicians, promotion etc. It costs money. When people download her stuff for free, everybody gets paid except her. When her music is streamed on Spotify, she'd have to have more than a million listens to make £50 - and out of that £50, she has to pay a distributor to get the music onto Spotify. (spotify don't deal directly with artists). Think how many millions of listens would be required to pay for the recording equipment, the other musicians etc. Before she gets any money.
I don't know how the youtube figures add up, but trust me, it's not much.
When she tours (god knows when that will happen again), she pays for the backing band, for visas, for travel arrangements, for accomodation (if accomodation is arranged, it effectively comes out of the concert fee) and so on.

Independent content creators do not benefit from exposure. They die of exposure. Exposure costs money - and if no-one is willing to pay for that content, because they think they can should be able to get it for free, then you won't get professional musicians doing their own thing "independently". Because they'll decide that the need to eat trumps the need to do what they do best.

Obviously huge artists with massive worldwide followings will earn enough to make a very good living from what they do. But not everybody wants to listen to Coldplay, or Drake, or whatever the cool kids are at now.

I'll tell you what stifles creativity - it's being forced to appeal to the lowest possible denominator, in order to be popular enough to survive on your earnings.
And you know what else stifles creativity - it isn't "copyright abuse"- it's ACTUAL copyright abuse, as in, refusing to pay for stuff that has been created, because you think they should be glad you like it, and that's enough. It's difficult being creative if your creativity is being squeezed into the corners of your everyday life, because of the time you've got to give over to earning enough to live on.

I'm sure there are things that are wrong with current copyright law. But at least it is making some attempt to get the money made from content, to the people who made that content.

That's not a problem with copyright law, it's a problem with the imbalance in the music industry between labels, producers, distributors etc and artists

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Re: Finance

by grey_squirrel » 09 May 2020 20:31

tidus_mi2 With the finances I think we have to be realistic and if we get a good offer for any of our players we have to sell, it's the only reasonable way to get out of this mess in the short term while the long term will be a reduction in the level of wages offered, even if that mean we lose players for nothing. Then of course we need to reduce the squad size but many have already mentioned that.

Who do we get rid of?

Current First Team:

Goalkeepers
Rafael - Keep, 1st choice
Sam Walker - Try to move on, let go at end of contract next season otherwise, several young keepers coming through that can be backup

Defenders:
Chris Gunter - Out of contract, high wages, release
Michael Morrison - Keep
Matt Miazga - on loan, realistically unaffordable, back to Chelsea
Liam Moore - Keep unless we get a good offer
Jordan Obita - Out of contract but with all injury troubles probably won't command a large wage, keep if feasible
Tom McIntyre - Promising youngster, probably more first team opportunities with a slimmer squad, keep
Andy Yiadom - Could attract attention but keep unless a good offer comes in
Tyler Blackett - Out of contract and looks like he's leaving
Omar Richards - Probably first choice now, so keep

Midfielders:
Andy Rinomhota - Still young and on form is one of our best midfielders, keep
John Swift - When he plays well, the team does but could attract attention so sell if a good offer comes in.
Garath McCleary - Out of contract, best days behind him and probably a high wage, release
Ovie Ejaria - Sounds like we agreed a fee in the Summer and he probably will be worth more than the £3m rumoured.
Felipe Araruna - Not really had a chance to show what he can do, probably best to send him back.
Pele - He's come on a lot this season but I don't think he's affordable so send back.
Michael Olise - Probably the most exciting prospect at the club right now, need to keep
Charlie Adam - Out of contract but if wages aren't an issue could be worth keeping for another season
Ayub Masika - Shown promise but probably best to let him go back
Sone Aluko - Unfortunately still here for another year, try to move on or do a dodgy loan to the owner's club again.

Strikers:
Sam Baldock - I like him, still has another year and I don't know how much interest he would get so keep
Danny Loader - Looks like he's leaving in the Summer
Lucas Boye - Hasn't really happened for him, send back to Torino
Yakou Meite - Fans love him, he seems to love it here, bit of a no brainer.
George Puscas - Difficult one, we could try and recoup some of the money we paid for him but would certainly be at a loss but if he can become the player he has shown in glimpses, he would be much better keeping, I'd take the chance and keep him.
Lucas Joao - Some of our best stuff came with him up top, have to keep.

Interestingly looking at the first team squad is quite a lot of them have contracts expiring in 2021 so we might be able to address a lot of the wage issues by then, if the club is sensible of course.


I look at that whole, embarrassing, long list of mediocre, massively over paid mercenaries and not one of them would give a sh:t about the club, only what they are being (over) paid. That is the mess we are in.

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Re: Finance

by Emmer Green Royal » 15 May 2020 13:16

SCIAG On the other hand you need to pay full price for an ordinary copy of The Selfish Gene because Dawkins and his publishers have a monopoly.


Here you go:https://naturwissenschaftscafe.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/richard_dawkins_the_selfish_gene.pdf

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Re: Finance

by paultheroyal » 15 May 2020 14:53

grey_squirrel
tidus_mi2 With the finances I think we have to be realistic and if we get a good offer for any of our players we have to sell, it's the only reasonable way to get out of this mess in the short term while the long term will be a reduction in the level of wages offered, even if that mean we lose players for nothing. Then of course we need to reduce the squad size but many have already mentioned that.

Who do we get rid of?

Current First Team:

Goalkeepers
Rafael - Keep, 1st choice
Sam Walker - Try to move on, let go at end of contract next season otherwise, several young keepers coming through that can be backup

Defenders:
Chris Gunter - Out of contract, high wages, release
Michael Morrison - Keep
Matt Miazga - on loan, realistically unaffordable, back to Chelsea
Liam Moore - Keep unless we get a good offer
Jordan Obita - Out of contract but with all injury troubles probably won't command a large wage, keep if feasible
Tom McIntyre - Promising youngster, probably more first team opportunities with a slimmer squad, keep
Andy Yiadom - Could attract attention but keep unless a good offer comes in
Tyler Blackett - Out of contract and looks like he's leaving
Omar Richards - Probably first choice now, so keep

Midfielders:
Andy Rinomhota - Still young and on form is one of our best midfielders, keep
John Swift - When he plays well, the team does but could attract attention so sell if a good offer comes in.
Garath McCleary - Out of contract, best days behind him and probably a high wage, release
Ovie Ejaria - Sounds like we agreed a fee in the Summer and he probably will be worth more than the £3m rumoured.
Felipe Araruna - Not really had a chance to show what he can do, probably best to send him back.
Pele - He's come on a lot this season but I don't think he's affordable so send back.
Michael Olise - Probably the most exciting prospect at the club right now, need to keep
Charlie Adam - Out of contract but if wages aren't an issue could be worth keeping for another season
Ayub Masika - Shown promise but probably best to let him go back
Sone Aluko - Unfortunately still here for another year, try to move on or do a dodgy loan to the owner's club again.

Strikers:
Sam Baldock - I like him, still has another year and I don't know how much interest he would get so keep
Danny Loader - Looks like he's leaving in the Summer
Lucas Boye - Hasn't really happened for him, send back to Torino
Yakou Meite - Fans love him, he seems to love it here, bit of a no brainer.
George Puscas - Difficult one, we could try and recoup some of the money we paid for him but would certainly be at a loss but if he can become the player he has shown in glimpses, he would be much better keeping, I'd take the chance and keep him.
Lucas Joao - Some of our best stuff came with him up top, have to keep.

Interestingly looking at the first team squad is quite a lot of them have contracts expiring in 2021 so we might be able to address a lot of the wage issues by then, if the club is sensible of course.


I look at that whole, embarrassing, long list of mediocre, massively over paid mercenaries and not one of them would give a sh:t about the club, only what they are being (over) paid. That is the mess we are in.


And the one who probably does care the most, longest servant, never spoke out of turn ends up getting the most abuse. Reading fans at their very worst.


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Re: Finance

by Stranded » 15 May 2020 16:37

Apologies if mentioned in this thread but were wage deferrals agreed in the end or not?

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Re: Finance

by Nameless » 15 May 2020 17:23

Stranded Apologies if mentioned in this thread but were wage deferrals agreed in the end or not?


They have delayed making a decision I believe.

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Re: Finance

by karbota » 16 May 2020 20:48

grey_squirrel
tidus_mi2 With the finances I think we have to be realistic and if we get a good offer for any of our players we have to sell, it's the only reasonable way to get out of this mess in the short term while the long term will be a reduction in the level of wages offered, even if that mean we lose players for nothing. Then of course we need to reduce the squad size but many have already mentioned that.

Who do we get rid of?

"I look at that whole, embarrassing, long list of mediocre, massively over paid mercenaries and not one of them would give a sh:t about the club, only what they are being (over) paid. That is the mess we are in".


How long have I been saying that?.

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Re: Finance

by Notts Royal » 17 May 2020 17:00

karbota
grey_squirrel
tidus_mi2 With the finances I think we have to be realistic and if we get a good offer for any of our players we have to sell, it's the only reasonable way to get out of this mess in the short term while the long term will be a reduction in the level of wages offered, even if that mean we lose players for nothing. Then of course we need to reduce the squad size but many have already mentioned that.

Who do we get rid of?

"I look at that whole, embarrassing, long list of mediocre, massively over paid mercenaries and not one of them would give a sh:t about the club, only what they are being (over) paid. That is the mess we are in".


How long have I been saying that?.


I’d say Liam Moore shows a lot of passion for the club. Wouldn’t say our youngsters like Rino & Richards are overpaid. The squad and type of player we have now is an improvement on say 3 years ago. But our recruitment has on the whole been poor as we’ve focused on skill levels at the expense of character


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Re: Finance

by sandman » 17 May 2020 18:25

Notts Royal
karbota
grey_squirrel


How long have I been saying that?.


I’d say Liam Moore shows a lot of passion for the club. Wouldn’t say our youngsters like Rino & Richards are overpaid. The squad and type of player we have now is an improvement on say 3 years ago. But our recruitment has on the whole been poor as we’ve focused on skill levels at the expense of character


Those three along will be some of the most overpaid according to Karbota.

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Re: Finance

by Ascotexgunner » 17 May 2020 19:51

muirinho
Snowflake Royal Independent content creators would massively benefit on streaming and video services.

There's absolutely tons of copyright abuse stifling creativity there with big rights owners taking revenue from them.

Tom Scott has a pretty good video on why copyright law is horrendous given modern technology and industry.


I know a professional, award-winning, musician who has toured the world and played in huge arenas.

But she has another full-time job, because she can't live off her earnings from music.



Oh cmon.....you cannot make a statement and not tell us who it is. I'm tender hooks now I read that....common who is it?

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Re: Finance

by SCIAG » 18 May 2020 17:24

Ascotexgunner
muirinho
Snowflake Royal Independent content creators would massively benefit on streaming and video services.

There's absolutely tons of copyright abuse stifling creativity there with big rights owners taking revenue from them.

Tom Scott has a pretty good video on why copyright law is horrendous given modern technology and industry.


I know a professional, award-winning, musician who has toured the world and played in huge arenas.

But she has another full-time job, because she can't live off her earnings from music.



Oh cmon.....you cannot make a statement and not tell us who it is. I'm tender hooks now I read that....common who is it?

My first guess was Peej or Laura Mvula.

Given that this is a Reading forum, I’m revising my guess to Marling.

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Re: Finance

by URZZZZ » 19 May 2020 00:18

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 4944908288

Apologies if missed, but some financial data here on this thread
Not a great set of accounts there


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Re: Finance

by Emmer Green Royal » 19 May 2020 11:17

URZZZZ https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1262273604944908288

Apologies if missed, but some financial data here on this thread
Not a great set of accounts there


Interesting - thanks for the link.

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Re: Finance

by Hound » 19 May 2020 11:46

yes read through that. Very noticeable how little we've made on player sales compared to some like Bristol City who have played the market very well

What we did have prior to the lockdown is some sellable assets. Could have quite likely been able to sell of Swift, Moore, Ricahrds, Puscas and one or two others. Howe was suggesting something similar, and actually if we could have got some decent money in, wed be able to balance the books up a bit

not sure where things stand now. Very much doubt we'll be able to ask what we could have done

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Re: Finance

by The Royal Forester » 26 May 2020 14:00

Put on the Club Website, just now. The first team players have agreed to defer a "substantial" part of their wages for three months. See the club website for more info, as I don't know how to link the article with this forum.

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Re: Finance

by Hendo » 26 May 2020 14:02

The Royal Forester Put on the Club Website, just now. The first team players have agreed to defer a "substantial" part of their wages for three months. See the club website for more info, as I don't know how to link the article with this forum.


https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2020/may/first-team-players-reach-wage-deferral-agreement-to-aid-clubs-cause-during-covid-19-pandemic/

FAO TRF - just click the URL button, between IMG and font size above where you type your post, and paste the URL between [url][/url] :)

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Re: Finance

by The Royal Forester » 26 May 2020 15:22

Hendo
The Royal Forester Put on the Club Website, just now. The first team players have agreed to defer a "substantial" part of their wages for three months. See the club website for more info, as I don't know how to link the article with this forum.


https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2020/may/first-team-players-reach-wage-deferral-agreement-to-aid-clubs-cause-during-covid-19-pandemic/

FAO TRF - just click the URL button, between IMG and font size above where you type your post, and paste the URL between [url][/url] :)

Thanks Hendo, I'll give a try next time.

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Re: Finance

by STAR Liaison » 01 Jun 2020 15:43

From the STAR website:

An important news story for football fans broke Friday 22nd May – and was immediately buried by the Dominic Cummings controversy. It was another political DC, Damian Collins MP and until recently the Chair of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee, doing the talking.

He sees a massive financial crisis hitting EFL clubs within a couple of months. No revenue coming in from games, 2020-21 season ticket sales hit by Covid-19 uncertainties and the knock-on effects of the Football Creditors rule. He’s not alone in predicting the demise of several, unspecified, clubs.

Collins is proposing a deal. The government is already supporting Rugby League in this crisis to the tune of £16 million. Collins’ six-point plan for football goes further.

- He proposes setting up a Football Finance Authority (FFA), under the auspices of the Football Association (FA).
- The FFA would assist financially troubled EFL clubs with public money. In exchange for those funds such clubs would surrender a minority shareholding.
- Independent directors would be nominated to represent that shareholding. These directors could be nominated by supporters’ trusts or local councils.
-These directors would have access to real time financial records and be duty-bound to raise any concerns they have about the club’s financial sustainability to the FFA.
- At some future point when the financial crisis has abated these minority shareholdings could be offered for sale to supporters’ trusts or local councils at a discounted rate with the funds raised going to back to the government to repay the public money invested.
- The EFL’s financial regulations would be enforced by the FFA (rather than the EFL club owners as at present) and the FFA would include representation of EFL clubs, PFA and the Football Supporters Association (FSA).
- The Covid-19 crisis comes on top of examples of creative accounting and unsustainable wages in the Championship where wages exceed revenue. In 2018-19 wages at Reading were double the revenue. Collins argues that Championship clubs should conform to the same Salary Cap Management Protocol that apply in Leagues One and Two (wages not to exceed 60% of revenue).

It might seem to many fans that STAR and the like have been talking about these issues for years and nothing happens. But we’d say, as with safe standing, there is slow and cautious (too cautious) progress being made. This present government has a manifesto commitment to ‘a fan-led review of football governance’ and the FSA has recently, and for the first time, presented strategic proposals to the FA Board. As the old, and questionable, British Rail slogan had it, ‘we’re getting there’.

What does this mean for Reading fans?

Firstly, STAR is backing Damian Collins’ proposals as is the FSA. We believe they will be good for professional football as a whole.

Secondly, STAR encourages individual STAR members and Reading fans to back these proposals by writing / emailing their MP (help on doing this can be found at How to contact your MP). Or by circulating Collins’ proposals or this message via social media.

Thirdly, wearing our Reading hats, we simply don’t know how the financial crisis will affect our club. As far as we know the owner is willing and able to continue funding the club even though we are in a period of considerable financial losses and strains. If the club does take public money to help through the short-term crisis then yes STAR would be willing to step up as the steward of any reciprocal minority shareholding. However, it has to be said that the history of independent, or supporter-, directors is not always a happy and glorious one.

Fourthly, we’ve had ten or so weeks of no football and not much news about football. We fear this might be the calm before the storm. This could be a pivotal moment in the game’s survival – or re-birth – on a more sustainable level. At STAR we will try and keep on the case, for the good of our club and the game at large. Please continue to join us at http://www.star-reading.org

- As you might have noticed on the STAR board STAR is offering to roll-over membership for the 2020-21 season for free to 2019-20 members, instead of the usual £10, but you have to opt in to take advantage. Full details on the STAR website.

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Re: Finance

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Jun 2020 23:26

STAR Liaison From the STAR website:

An important news story for football fans broke Friday 22nd May – and was immediately buried by the Dominic Cummings controversy. It was another political DC, Damian Collins MP and until recently the Chair of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee, doing the talking.

He sees a massive financial crisis hitting EFL clubs within a couple of months. No revenue coming in from games, 2020-21 season ticket sales hit by Covid-19 uncertainties and the knock-on effects of the Football Creditors rule. He’s not alone in predicting the demise of several, unspecified, clubs.

Collins is proposing a deal. The government is already supporting Rugby League in this crisis to the tune of £16 million. Collins’ six-point plan for football goes further.

- He proposes setting up a Football Finance Authority (FFA), under the auspices of the Football Association (FA).
- The FFA would assist financially troubled EFL clubs with public money. In exchange for those funds such clubs would surrender a minority shareholding.
- Independent directors would be nominated to represent that shareholding. These directors could be nominated by supporters’ trusts or local councils.
-These directors would have access to real time financial records and be duty-bound to raise any concerns they have about the club’s financial sustainability to the FFA.
- At some future point when the financial crisis has abated these minority shareholdings could be offered for sale to supporters’ trusts or local councils at a discounted rate with the funds raised going to back to the government to repay the public money invested.
- The EFL’s financial regulations would be enforced by the FFA (rather than the EFL club owners as at present) and the FFA would include representation of EFL clubs, PFA and the Football Supporters Association (FSA).
- The Covid-19 crisis comes on top of examples of creative accounting and unsustainable wages in the Championship where wages exceed revenue. In 2018-19 wages at Reading were double the revenue. Collins argues that Championship clubs should conform to the same Salary Cap Management Protocol that apply in Leagues One and Two (wages not to exceed 60% of revenue).

It might seem to many fans that STAR and the like have been talking about these issues for years and nothing happens. But we’d say, as with safe standing, there is slow and cautious (too cautious) progress being made. This present government has a manifesto commitment to ‘a fan-led review of football governance’ and the FSA has recently, and for the first time, presented strategic proposals to the FA Board. As the old, and questionable, British Rail slogan had it, ‘we’re getting there’.

What does this mean for Reading fans?

Firstly, STAR is backing Damian Collins’ proposals as is the FSA. We believe they will be good for professional football as a whole.

Secondly, STAR encourages individual STAR members and Reading fans to back these proposals by writing / emailing their MP (help on doing this can be found at How to contact your MP). Or by circulating Collins’ proposals or this message via social media.

Thirdly, wearing our Reading hats, we simply don’t know how the financial crisis will affect our club. As far as we know the owner is willing and able to continue funding the club even though we are in a period of considerable financial losses and strains. If the club does take public money to help through the short-term crisis then yes STAR would be willing to step up as the steward of any reciprocal minority shareholding. However, it has to be said that the history of independent, or supporter-, directors is not always a happy and glorious one.

Fourthly, we’ve had ten or so weeks of no football and not much news about football. We fear this might be the calm before the storm. This could be a pivotal moment in the game’s survival – or re-birth – on a more sustainable level. At STAR we will try and keep on the case, for the good of our club and the game at large. Please continue to join us at http://www.star-reading.org

- As you might have noticed on the STAR board STAR is offering to roll-over membership for the 2020-21 season for free to 2019-20 members, instead of the usual £10, but you have to opt in to take advantage. Full details on the STAR website.

Interesting, thanks SL

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