Squad for 2020/21

1016 posts
User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18389
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Sutekh » 07 Jul 2020 15:45

Nameless The wage issue clearly is a short term issue. Whether it has been going on for several years really isn’t the point.
It’s about players on contracts of 1 or 2 years duration.
Once their contract is up then the wages disappear.
Unless we chose to give them a new contract on better terms or sign players on the same terms.
It is utterly different to having huge debts racking up interest faster than they can be repaid or not paying HMRC or picking the wrong time to build an expensive new ground.
Of course we can actively chose to make it a longer term problem, which is what we have done. However that doesn’t alter the fact that the very nature of player contracts means there is a finite and pretty short term end date to the club”s wage commitments.
Replacing Moore with McIntyre, Gunter with Osho, Swift with Olise for example sees the wages drop dramatically without a huge drop.playing standards.


Re: right back, where is Tennai Watson? I presume that Osho got the nod for the Luton game as Tennai was on a season long loan at Coventry and therefore couldn’t be considered despite having returned to the club a few months ago?

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Nameless » 07 Jul 2020 16:10

Sutekh
Nameless The wage issue clearly is a short term issue. Whether it has been going on for several years really isn’t the point.
It’s about players on contracts of 1 or 2 years duration.
Once their contract is up then the wages disappear.
Unless we chose to give them a new contract on better terms or sign players on the same terms.
It is utterly different to having huge debts racking up interest faster than they can be repaid or not paying HMRC or picking the wrong time to build an expensive new ground.
Of course we can actively chose to make it a longer term problem, which is what we have done. However that doesn’t alter the fact that the very nature of player contracts means there is a finite and pretty short term end date to the club”s wage commitments.
Replacing Moore with McIntyre, Gunter with Osho, Swift with Olise for example sees the wages drop dramatically without a huge drop.playing standards.


Re: right back, where is Tennai Watson? I presume that Osho got the nod for the Luton game as Tennai was on a season long loan at Coventry and therefore couldn’t be considered despite having returned to the club a few months ago?


Hard to see Watson figuring given he’s not had great loan spells. Has he been injured ? He hardly played at Coventry.

User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Zip » 07 Jul 2020 16:15

Watson is very much the forgotten player. He has had his share of injuries. He is 23 now and played very little first team football. Can’t see him staying beyond his contract expiry next summer. Another loan to the lower divisions is very likely.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39406
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jul 2020 16:21

NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal
NewCorkSeth Let's count off who we are shifting: Mannone, Gunter, McCleary, Blackett, Popa, Obita and Adam.

Mannone was reportedly the top earner when we signed him (might not be true but we can assume he had a good contract), Gunter, McCleary and Obita must be on decent wages given how long they have been in the squad, unsure on Blackett and Adam but I recall someone saying Popa wouldn't leave because he was earning so much. Conservatively those few leaving is 100k a week off our wage bill. Thats a lot of skrilla.

Heard it every year for all those years. X is leaving, that will solve the problem. Never does, so forgive my cynicism.

We'll probably sign Shevchenko's third cousin twice removed and pay him £6m a week to replace Popa anyway.

Oh I agree its a problem, one we have had for far too long, but lets not pretend we have had this much wage budget clear up just by releasing players at the end of their contracts before.

I agree we tend to waste these opportunities. A side effect of our manager chop and change or that agent who appears to have far too much power. Anyway, all that to say I think we will find those few players plus Aluko, Moore and Swift are the majority of our wages. If we sell those 2 and pay Aluko to leave, promote from current first team (McIntyre for Moore/Olise for Swift) we should have enough in the kitty to sign a few cheaper punts without plunging us back to 200% of our income spent on wages..

I think you're forgetting the likes of Pog and Drenthe who would both be on at least the same as Moore or Mannone are now if not way more. Pog was reported to be on something like Gunter, GMac and Popa combined.

We should be aiming for wages to be 80-90% of turnover max not just being happy it's back to 150% instead of 210% or whatever it was.

User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Zip » 07 Jul 2020 16:23

Nameless
Sutekh
Nameless The wage issue clearly is a short term issue. Whether it has been going on for several years really isn’t the point.
It’s about players on contracts of 1 or 2 years duration.
Once their contract is up then the wages disappear.
Unless we chose to give them a new contract on better terms or sign players on the same terms.
It is utterly different to having huge debts racking up interest faster than they can be repaid or not paying HMRC or picking the wrong time to build an expensive new ground.
Of course we can actively chose to make it a longer term problem, which is what we have done. However that doesn’t alter the fact that the very nature of player contracts means there is a finite and pretty short term end date to the club”s wage commitments.
Replacing Moore with McIntyre, Gunter with Osho, Swift with Olise for example sees the wages drop dramatically without a huge drop.playing standards.


Re: right back, where is Tennai Watson? I presume that Osho got the nod for the Luton game as Tennai was on a season long loan at Coventry and therefore couldn’t be considered despite having returned to the club a few months ago?


Hard to see Watson figuring given he’s not had great loan spells. Has he been injured ? He hardly played at Coventry.


Watson’s loan wasn’t extended in January.
Last edited by Zip on 07 Jul 2020 17:28, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by NewCorkSeth » 07 Jul 2020 17:27

Snowflake Royal
NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal Heard it every year for all those years. X is leaving, that will solve the problem. Never does, so forgive my cynicism.

We'll probably sign Shevchenko's third cousin twice removed and pay him £6m a week to replace Popa anyway.

Oh I agree its a problem, one we have had for far too long, but lets not pretend we have had this much wage budget clear up just by releasing players at the end of their contracts before.

I agree we tend to waste these opportunities. A side effect of our manager chop and change or that agent who appears to have far too much power. Anyway, all that to say I think we will find those few players plus Aluko, Moore and Swift are the majority of our wages. If we sell those 2 and pay Aluko to leave, promote from current first team (McIntyre for Moore/Olise for Swift) we should have enough in the kitty to sign a few cheaper punts without plunging us back to 200% of our income spent on wages..

I think you're forgetting the likes of Pog and Drenthe who would both be on at least the same as Moore or Mannone are now if not way more. Pog was reported to be on something like Gunter, GMac and Popa combined.

We should be aiming for wages to be 80-90% of turnover max not just being happy it's back to 150% instead of 210% or whatever it was.

I think you're forgetting to read my posts. Drenthe left in 2015 and Pog left in 2016. Neither left at the end of their contracts.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39406
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jul 2020 17:44

NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal
NewCorkSeth Oh I agree its a problem, one we have had for far too long, but lets not pretend we have had this much wage budget clear up just by releasing players at the end of their contracts before.

I agree we tend to waste these opportunities. A side effect of our manager chop and change or that agent who appears to have far too much power. Anyway, all that to say I think we will find those few players plus Aluko, Moore and Swift are the majority of our wages. If we sell those 2 and pay Aluko to leave, promote from current first team (McIntyre for Moore/Olise for Swift) we should have enough in the kitty to sign a few cheaper punts without plunging us back to 200% of our income spent on wages..

I think you're forgetting the likes of Pog and Drenthe who would both be on at least the same as Moore or Mannone are now if not way more. Pog was reported to be on something like Gunter, GMac and Popa combined.

We should be aiming for wages to be 80-90% of turnover max not just being happy it's back to 150% instead of 210% or whatever it was.

I think you're forgetting to read my posts. Drenthe left in 2015 and Pog left in 2016. Neither left at the end of their contracts.

I wasn't suggesting they left at the same time. And surely how a player leaves isn't that important really, their wage is still off the budget.

Tbh, I had to read that first paragraph about four times because I thought it could be interpreted in multiple ways, so I may have ended on the wrong one, or missed one entirely.

I'm assuming you meant that on no previous occasion have the outgoing (released) players added up to as much in wages, or possibly as big a proportion of our overall wage budget. I think that would be a bold and unsubstantiated claim - maybe fair purely on released, but then as I said, who they go surely doesn't really matter. At first I thought you meant that I'd suggested we'd previously cleared up the wage deficit by releasing players, which was basically the reverse of what I said.

Maybe you meant something completely different, if you did, I'm at a loss.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by NewCorkSeth » 07 Jul 2020 17:48

Snowflake Royal
NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal I think you're forgetting the likes of Pog and Drenthe who would both be on at least the same as Moore or Mannone are now if not way more. Pog was reported to be on something like Gunter, GMac and Popa combined.

We should be aiming for wages to be 80-90% of turnover max not just being happy it's back to 150% instead of 210% or whatever it was.

I think you're forgetting to read my posts. Drenthe left in 2015 and Pog left in 2016. Neither left at the end of their contracts.

I wasn't suggesting they left at the same time. And surely how a player leaves isn't that important really, their wage is still off the budget.

Tbh, I had to read that first paragraph about four times because I thought it could be interpreted in multiple ways, so I may have ended on the wrong one, or missed one entirely.

I'm assuming you meant that on no previous occasion have the outgoing players added up to as much in wages, or possibly as big a proportion of our overall wage budget. I think that would be a bold and unsubstantiated claim. At first I thought you meant that I'd suggested we'd previously cleared up the wage deficit by releasing players, which was basically the reverse of what I said.

Maybe you meant something completely different, if you did, I'm at a loss.

"lets not pretend we have had this much wage budget clear up just by releasing players at the end of their contracts before"
This part is confusing for you?

Can someone else weigh in here please? I dont want to be a dick but that seems crystal clear to me. Its so specific. I obviously don't mean all players whether sold or released. I said released at end of their contract. Thats it.

Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24935
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Hound » 07 Jul 2020 20:13

No. You two deserve each other and this absymal argument


Old Man Andrews

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Old Man Andrews » 07 Jul 2020 20:29

Did someone say abysmal argument? Hold my beer!

Old Man Andrews

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Old Man Andrews » 07 Jul 2020 20:35

Really like McIntyre, hope he gets to start next season as first choice. Great to see a local boy in the team and he seems to be a nice lad too. He's going to make mistakes and he might cost us a game or two but he deserves a chance and hopefully when the mistakes come he is given a free pass by our supporters, at least initially.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by NewCorkSeth » 07 Jul 2020 20:59

Hound No. You two deserve each other and this absymal argument

x

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Nameless » 07 Jul 2020 21:12

Zip
Nameless
Sutekh
Re: right back, where is Tennai Watson? I presume that Osho got the nod for the Luton game as Tennai was on a season long loan at Coventry and therefore couldn’t be considered despite having returned to the club a few months ago?


Hard to see Watson figuring given he’s not had great loan spells. Has he been injured ? He hardly played at Coventry.


Watson’s loan wasn’t extended in January.


And he had hardly played , which probably is why they opted to not keep him on.


User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39406
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jul 2020 21:16

NewCorkSeth
Hound No. You two deserve each other and this absymal argument

x

Mwah.

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7279
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by URZZZZ » 07 Jul 2020 23:49

Was OK with Obita as backup LB for next season but Bowen seems fixated on the idea he’s a LM. If that’s where Bowen sees his position, shouldn’t be renewing his contract, been a passenger there both today and against Stoke

WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5393
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by WestYorksRoyal » 08 Jul 2020 11:38

Replacing Gunter, Moore and Swift with Osho, McIntyre and Olise makes big sense financially, but any squad needs the balance between youth and experience. I'm not sure we'd get the same output from Ejaria/Olise over a season as we've had from Swift. I'd also want a more experienced CB in the ranks if we lose Moore and Miazga. I'm sure we can find a way of making it all work with cheap signings, loans etc. but let's find a way of easing younger players in instead of throwing them in at the deep end.

User avatar
Lower West
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 4915
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:35
Location: Admiring Clem Morfuni at Work

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Lower West » 08 Jul 2020 16:38

URZZZZ Was OK with Obita as backup LB for next season but Bowen seems fixated on the idea he’s a LM. If that’s where Bowen sees his position, shouldn’t be renewing his contract, been a passenger there both today and against Stoke


Other option was Boye and he's not match fit.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Jul 2020 16:42

Lower West
URZZZZ Was OK with Obita as backup LB for next season but Bowen seems fixated on the idea he’s a LM. If that’s where Bowen sees his position, shouldn’t be renewing his contract, been a passenger there both today and against Stoke


Other option was Boye and he's not match fit.

Olise? Masika? Baldock?

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39406
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Jul 2020 17:11

NewCorkSeth
Lower West
URZZZZ Was OK with Obita as backup LB for next season but Bowen seems fixated on the idea he’s a LM. If that’s where Bowen sees his position, shouldn’t be renewing his contract, been a passenger there both today and against Stoke


Other option was Boye and he's not match fit.

Olise? Masika? Baldock?

Richards, McCleary. Don't think it would be the first left wing appearance for any of them.

I was a big supporter of Obita before last night, he had produced some goals and assists from LW. I know a lot of people have said he looks unfit for a while now, but that and Brentford was the first time I'd agree.

User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9519
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: Squad for 2020/21

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Jul 2020 17:20

Snowflake Royal
NewCorkSeth
Lower West
Other option was Boye and he's not match fit.

Olise? Masika? Baldock?

Richards, McCleary. Don't think it would be the first left wing appearance for any of them.

I was a big supporter of Obita before last night, he had produced some goals and assists from LW. I know a lot of people have said he looks unfit for a while now, but that and Brentford was the first time I'd agree.

I'm with you there. He was certainly error prone in possession when we needed him to be intelligent on the ball. Maybe I was looking at him through rose tinted glasses. Still. On a reduced wage he would be great squad cover.

1016 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Four Of Clubs and 467 guests

It is currently 29 Mar 2024 13:36