Bowen out rumour

Is a new manger the right decision?

Yes
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Total votes: 75
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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Stranded » 27 Aug 2020 08:30

elrey The getreading,co.uk has Veljko Paunovic coming in. He's got a 31% win ratio with Chicago Fire. He had one good season, finishing 3rd in the Eastern Conference (some silly thing where they split the league for seemingly no reason, when they all played each other anyway)

Seems after that he just got worse and worse.


You can look at his record in a couple of way - yep losing 44 of 100 games doesn't read well but in the 3 seasons prior to him joining Chicago had finished 12th, 16th and then last.

In his first year there, they finished last again but then the following year he took them to 3rd and their play-offs for the first time in 5 years before they reverted to type the following year - mainly due to draws (18 of 36 games drawn). In his final year they missed the playoffs by 1 win. So overall, he did improve the club quite markedly from where he joined them.
Last edited by Stranded on 27 Aug 2020 08:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Nameless » 27 Aug 2020 08:31

elrey
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elrey The getreading,co.uk has Veljko Paunovic coming in. He's got a 31% win ratio with Chicago Fire. He had one good season, finishing 3rd in the Eastern Conference (some silly thing where they split the league for seemingly no reason, when they all played each other anyway)

Seems after that he just got worse and worse.

It is so they can have playoffs at the end of it with East v West in the final. Quite simple really, even for you.


It's a shame this forum doesn't have a block function.


It does

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Hound » 27 Aug 2020 08:34

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elrey The getreading,co.uk has Veljko Paunovic coming in. He's got a 31% win ratio with Chicago Fire. He had one good season, finishing 3rd in the Eastern Conference (some silly thing where they split the league for seemingly no reason, when they all played each other anyway)

Seems after that he just got worse and worse.


You can look at his record in a couple of way - yep losing 44 of 100 games doesn't read well but in the 3 seasons prior to him joining Chicago had finished 12th, 16th and then last.

In his first year there, they finished last again but then the following year he took them to 3rd and their play-offs for the first time in 5 years before they reverted to type the following year - mainly due to draws (18 of 36 games drawn). In his final year they missed the playoffs by 1 win. So overall, he did improve the club quite markedly from where he joined them.


He was pretty well regarded there from what I can gather.

Obviously its a big ask coming from the MLS to the EFL. I'm convinced Bowen is going to be much more involved than a DoF would normally be, especially at first. It might work. If Bowen had gone then I'd be far more worried

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by From Despair To Where? » 27 Aug 2020 08:36

Just to put into a little bit of context, Eddie Howe had a 38% loss rate at Bournemouth.
Last edited by From Despair To Where? on 27 Aug 2020 08:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Nameless » 27 Aug 2020 08:38

From Despair To Where? Just to put into a little bit of context, Eddie Howe had a 39% loss rate at Bournemouth.


Not sure that is any context. Different measure in a different league with a different club in different circumstances !


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Re: Bowen out rumour

by From Despair To Where? » 27 Aug 2020 08:39

Nameless
From Despair To Where? Just to put into a little bit of context, Eddie Howe had a 39% loss rate at Bournemouth.


Not sure that is any context. Different measure in a different league with a different club in different circumstances !


To be frank, if you need it explaining, you'll never get it. By your reckoning it's pointless ever comparing anything.

Across the board, a 40% loss rate is nothing outside the very top echelon of clubs. Hence, Eddie Howe, a manager some on here think we should be after, a manager who has overseen 3 promotions, has an overall loss percentage of almost 40% and is a manager apparently in much demand. Any manager with significantly lower loss percentage wouldn't look twice at Reading and maybe we need to look more at managers who have dragged clubs up by their bootstraps.

His overall record in MLS if replicated in the Championship would equate to a 58-60 point season and that's with the MLS equivalent of Rotherham.

Im not saying he's an outstanding coach, just that in the circumstances, his record isn't actually that bad.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Stranded » 27 Aug 2020 09:00

From Despair To Where?
Nameless
From Despair To Where? Just to put into a little bit of context, Eddie Howe had a 39% loss rate at Bournemouth.


Not sure that is any context. Different measure in a different league with a different club in different circumstances !


To be frank, if you need it explaining, you'll never get it. By your reckoning it's pointless ever comparing anything.

Across the board, a 40% loss rate is nothing outside the very top echelon of clubs. Hence, Eddie Howe, a manager some on here think we should be after, a manager who has overseen 3 promotions, has an overall loss percentage of almost 40% and is a manager apparently in much demand. Any manager with significantly lower loss percentage wouldn't look twice at Reading and maybe we need to look more at managers who have dragged clubs up by their bootstraps.

His overall record in MLS if replicated in the Championship would equate to a 58-60 point season and that's with the MLS equivalent of Rotherham.

Im not saying he's an outstanding coach, just that in the circumstances, his record isn't actually that bad.


Yep this - Chicago aren't a big club in MLS terms and as I've mentioned above they were shit when he joined enjoyed some success and he left them a lot less shit - the most vocal fans seem to hate him though but that is always the way.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Stranded » 27 Aug 2020 09:05

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elrey The getreading,co.uk has Veljko Paunovic coming in. He's got a 31% win ratio with Chicago Fire. He had one good season, finishing 3rd in the Eastern Conference (some silly thing where they split the league for seemingly no reason, when they all played each other anyway)

Seems after that he just got worse and worse.


You can look at his record in a couple of way - yep losing 44 of 100 games doesn't read well but in the 3 seasons prior to him joining Chicago had finished 12th, 16th and then last.

In his first year there, they finished last again but then the following year he took them to 3rd and their play-offs for the first time in 5 years before they reverted to type the following year - mainly due to draws (18 of 36 games drawn). In his final year they missed the playoffs by 1 win. So overall, he did improve the club quite markedly from where he joined them.


He was pretty well regarded there from what I can gather.

Obviously its a big ask coming from the MLS to the EFL. I'm convinced Bowen is going to be much more involved than a DoF would normally be, especially at first. It might work. If Bowen had gone then I'd be far more worried


Bowen will be pretty hands on - not just with transfers but I imagine he will have a massive say in culture and playing style - I don't expect the team to suddenly shift from the way we set up against Gillingham and if it is Paunovic, he has been hired as a coach and coach only - he will likely be given an overview by Bowen of how we want to play - it seems to fit his style anyway - and Bowen will be responsible for giving him better players to execute the plans. Paunovic will have free reign to implement set piece routines, how we defend etc but imagine the formation etc will pretty much stay as we have seen.

Much more of a European way of doing things, that a manager like a Hughton or a manager like him would not be willing to walk into.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by elrey » 27 Aug 2020 09:25

Stranded
elrey The getreading,co.uk has Veljko Paunovic coming in. He's got a 31% win ratio with Chicago Fire. He had one good season, finishing 3rd in the Eastern Conference (some silly thing where they split the league for seemingly no reason, when they all played each other anyway)

Seems after that he just got worse and worse.


You can look at his record in a couple of way - yep losing 44 of 100 games doesn't read well but in the 3 seasons prior to him joining Chicago had finished 12th, 16th and then last.

In his first year there, they finished last again but then the following year he took them to 3rd and their play-offs for the first time in 5 years before they reverted to type the following year - mainly due to draws (18 of 36 games drawn). In his final year they missed the playoffs by 1 win. So overall, he did improve the club quite markedly from where he joined them.


Well, the record I've got is that he came in, they finished 20th overall, they finished 20th overall the season before, 15th, 12th, 6th in the preceding seasons.

He had one good season, finishing 3rd overall, then went to 21st and 17th the two seasons after. 21st being their worst season ever. They're 17th overall currently this season.

So, why would they go for this guy? His record is nothing special at all, and that's in America. He doesn't know the UK. He played mostly in Spain. Like Gomes before him, it seems like someone flicked a coin and it landed on this guy's name.


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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Aug 2020 09:28

It may not be as bleak as some say, but I hardly think what we need is a one season bounce which is what stranded mainly seems to be describing.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Hound » 27 Aug 2020 09:35

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You can look at his record in a couple of way - yep losing 44 of 100 games doesn't read well but in the 3 seasons prior to him joining Chicago had finished 12th, 16th and then last.

In his first year there, they finished last again but then the following year he took them to 3rd and their play-offs for the first time in 5 years before they reverted to type the following year - mainly due to draws (18 of 36 games drawn). In his final year they missed the playoffs by 1 win. So overall, he did improve the club quite markedly from where he joined them.


He was pretty well regarded there from what I can gather.

Obviously its a big ask coming from the MLS to the EFL. I'm convinced Bowen is going to be much more involved than a DoF would normally be, especially at first. It might work. If Bowen had gone then I'd be far more worried


Bowen will be pretty hands on - not just with transfers but I imagine he will have a massive say in culture and playing style - I don't expect the team to suddenly shift from the way we set up against Gillingham and if it is Paunovic, he has been hired as a coach and coach only - he will likely be given an overview by Bowen of how we want to play - it seems to fit his style anyway - and Bowen will be responsible for giving him better players to execute the plans. Paunovic will have free reign to implement set piece routines, how we defend etc but imagine the formation etc will pretty much stay as we have seen.

Much more of a European way of doing things, that a manager like a Hughton or a manager like him would not be willing to walk into.


yeah I'm guessing thats the plan. I'm ok with it.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by elrey » 27 Aug 2020 09:36

From Despair To Where? Just to put into a little bit of context, Eddie Howe had a 38% loss rate at Bournemouth.


Not what I've got.

He had a 50% win ratio the first time around, and a 40.17% the second time around, with a team like Bournemouth in the Premiership.

Chicago Fire were a top 5 team up until around 2009. They started their drop to a "top 20" team just before this dude showed up, and he had one good season and couldn't continue that. They signed Nemanja Nikolić that season and he scored loads, they had Sebastian Schweinsteiger too. João Meira had his second and last season at Chicago Fire that season. Maybe they just had a good set of players that year. Certainly they went from 3rd to 20th the next season, that doesn't show good management.

Many managers get lucky. Jaap Stam for example. They have the right players in place for their style, they get it working, but a slight change and everything falls apart. What happened to Stam? His management career is heading to Accrington Stanley.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by elrey » 27 Aug 2020 09:38

From Despair To Where?
Nameless
From Despair To Where? Just to put into a little bit of context, Eddie Howe had a 39% loss rate at Bournemouth.


Not sure that is any context. Different measure in a different league with a different club in different circumstances !


To be frank, if you need it explaining, you'll never get it. By your reckoning it's pointless ever comparing anything.

Across the board, a 40% loss rate is nothing outside the very top echelon of clubs. Hence, Eddie Howe, a manager some on here think we should be after, a manager who has overseen 3 promotions, has an overall loss percentage of almost 40% and is a manager apparently in much demand. Any manager with significantly lower loss percentage wouldn't look twice at Reading and maybe we need to look more at managers who have dragged clubs up by their bootstraps.

His overall record in MLS if replicated in the Championship would equate to a 58-60 point season and that's with the MLS equivalent of Rotherham.

Im not saying he's an outstanding coach, just that in the circumstances, his record isn't actually that bad.


the question is, why would a club like Reading be attracted to this guy? He's got a CV that says "mehhh" at best. Same with Gomes. What a pointless appointment that was


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Re: Bowen out rumour

by elrey » 27 Aug 2020 09:39

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Nameless
Not sure that is any context. Different measure in a different league with a different club in different circumstances !


To be frank, if you need it explaining, you'll never get it. By your reckoning it's pointless ever comparing anything.

Across the board, a 40% loss rate is nothing outside the very top echelon of clubs. Hence, Eddie Howe, a manager some on here think we should be after, a manager who has overseen 3 promotions, has an overall loss percentage of almost 40% and is a manager apparently in much demand. Any manager with significantly lower loss percentage wouldn't look twice at Reading and maybe we need to look more at managers who have dragged clubs up by their bootstraps.

His overall record in MLS if replicated in the Championship would equate to a 58-60 point season and that's with the MLS equivalent of Rotherham.

Im not saying he's an outstanding coach, just that in the circumstances, his record isn't actually that bad.


Yep this - Chicago aren't a big club in MLS terms and as I've mentioned above they were shit when he joined enjoyed some success and he left them a lot less shit - the most vocal fans seem to hate him though but that is always the way.


They seem to be just as shit now as they were when he arrived.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Stranded » 27 Aug 2020 10:04

Snowflake Royal It may not be as bleak as some say, but I hardly think what we need is a one season bounce which is what stranded mainly seems to be describing.


Depends how big that bounce is. A bounce up to 2nd, happy days. A bounce to 8th, not so much.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Aug 2020 10:24

Stranded
Snowflake Royal It may not be as bleak as some say, but I hardly think what we need is a one season bounce which is what stranded mainly seems to be describing.


Depends how big that bounce is. A bounce up to 2nd, happy days. A bounce to 8th, not so much.

Bounce to 2nd, then 24th, 20th, 20th does very little for us though.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Stranded » 27 Aug 2020 10:29

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal It may not be as bleak as some say, but I hardly think what we need is a one season bounce which is what stranded mainly seems to be describing.


Depends how big that bounce is. A bounce up to 2nd, happy days. A bounce to 8th, not so much.

Bounce to 2nd, then 24th, 20th, 20th does very little for us though.


2nd would get us promoted. Different ball game then.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Aug 2020 12:34

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Depends how big that bounce is. A bounce up to 2nd, happy days. A bounce to 8th, not so much.

Bounce to 2nd, then 24th, 20th, 20th does very little for us though.


2nd would get us promoted. Different ball game then.

Yeah I know. But many of our current problems stem from oxf*rd up promotion last time.

I could only see us coming back down with even bigger financial problems.

And the promotion is exceptionally unlikely isn't it.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by From Despair To Where? » 27 Aug 2020 13:05

elrey
From Despair To Where? Just to put into a little bit of context, Eddie Howe had a 38% loss rate at Bournemouth.


Not what I've got.

He had a 50% win ratio the first time around, and a 40.17% the second time around, with a team like Bournemouth in the Premiership.

Chicago Fire were a top 5 team up until around 2009. They started their drop to a "top 20" team just before this dude showed up, and he had one good season and couldn't continue that. They signed Nemanja Nikolić that season and he scored loads, they had Sebastian Schweinsteiger too. João Meira had his second and last season at Chicago Fire that season. Maybe they just had a good set of players that year. Certainly they went from 3rd to 20th the next season, that doesn't show good management.

Many managers get lucky. Jaap Stam for example. They have the right players in place for their style, they get it working, but a slight change and everything falls apart. What happened to Stam? His management career is heading to Accrington Stanley.


Howe had a 38% loss rate at Bournemouth. Im talking about losses because someone bigged up the fact he lost 40% of his games at Chicago. Half the Premier League lost 40% or more of their games last season.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Lower West » 27 Aug 2020 13:10

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Depends how big that bounce is. A bounce up to 2nd, happy days. A bounce to 8th, not so much.

Bounce to 2nd, then 24th, 20th, 20th does very little for us though.


2nd would get us promoted. Different ball game then.


22nd would see us relegated. Rolling the dice too many times is asking for trouble.

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