Bowen out rumour

Is a new manger the right decision?

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morganb
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Re: Bowen out rumour

by morganb » 03 Sep 2020 11:35

https://mobile.twitter.com/jhwinstanley ... 4842456065

So, Jack Winstanley says Bowen was lined up to speak to player agents today (guess incoming players not linked to Kia). Assume that these meetings won't now be taking place with someone else at the club. Wonder who was lined up and who would be responsible for this task in the short-term.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Old Man Andrews » 03 Sep 2020 11:36

morganb https://mobile.twitter.com/jhwinstanley/status/1301445434842456065

So, Jack Winstanley says Bowen was lined up to speak to player agents today (guess incoming players not linked to Kia). Assume that these meetings won't now be taking place with someone else at the club. Wonder who was lined up and who would be responsible for this task in the short-term.

The manager. We have a football manager at the club who is capable of speaking to people.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Nameless » 03 Sep 2020 12:03

Old Man Andrews
morganb https://mobile.twitter.com/jhwinstanley/status/1301445434842456065

So, Jack Winstanley says Bowen was lined up to speak to player agents today (guess incoming players not linked to Kia). Assume that these meetings won't now be taking place with someone else at the club. Wonder who was lined up and who would be responsible for this task in the short-term.

The manager. We have a football manager at the club who is capable of speaking to people.


He’ll of an ask to expect the new guy to talk knowledgeably about incoming players, especially when in quarantine.
Obvious options to be involved would be Niedwizcki and O’Shea or Gilkes.

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Lower West
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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Lower West » 03 Sep 2020 12:59

Nameless
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Woodcote Royal I wouldn't call it shambolic, more an owner committed to taking the club where he wants it to be,


In the process losing the confidence of the very people he needs on board. Clubs that succeed have an internal structure that's built around football. The owner doesn't appear to understand the relationship between club and community. Remember when Liverpool had those two US idiots. Had no understanding of the club at all which resulted in a negative atmosphere around the club for some years. Reflected in their performances on the pitch.


I’d say there is loads of tangible evidence that the owner (or the people advising him) are very aware of the club/fan connection. They have probably done more fan friendly stuff than any owner we have ever had.


NH influence ?

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Nameless » 03 Sep 2020 15:06

Lower West
Nameless
Lower West
In the process losing the confidence of the very people he needs on board. Clubs that succeed have an internal structure that's built around football. The owner doesn't appear to understand the relationship between club and community. Remember when Liverpool had those two US idiots. Had no understanding of the club at all which resulted in a negative atmosphere around the club for some years. Reflected in their performances on the pitch.


I’d say there is loads of tangible evidence that the owner (or the people advising him) are very aware of the club/fan connection. They have probably done more fan friendly stuff than any owner we have ever had.


NH influence ?


Quite possibly. Which means it should continue given his ongoing involvement....


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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Westwood52 » 03 Sep 2020 16:07

I wonder how much MB received for walking away ?In the normal commercial world,you wait to be sacked or made redundant in order to gain some financial breathing space,while looking for another job.If most of us just got up from the table during a meeting,and said OK I have had enough I am going,we would be lucky to be paid up to the end of the month.Do you think MB just walked out with his cardboard box;or did he say;I’m going,how much will you pay me not to dish the dirt ?
TBF in my last but one job ,if I had just walked away without financial settlement;I could have walked out with about a hundred clients and maybe £300k of fees.Who knows;they gave me a less than generous settlement,but I had to agree not to approach any of my clients for six months.
Would love to have been a fly on the wall when MB negotiated his settlement.Everytime the Manager walks this is costing us big time.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Hendo » 03 Sep 2020 16:15

Seeing as he only had a year left on his contract, I doubt it was that much, tbh.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Westwood52 » 03 Sep 2020 16:26

Based on the Jap Stam audit trail ,that’s about £300k less tax.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Hendo » 03 Sep 2020 16:32

So, in the grand scheme of things, not a lot then.

About half of the reported sell on we got from the Dickie transfer...


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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Lower West » 03 Sep 2020 16:50

Westwood52 Would love to have been a fly on the wall when MB negotiated his settlement.Everytime the Manager walks this is costing us big time.


Constructive dismissal possibly. Consulting employment law solicitors.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Nameless » 03 Sep 2020 17:16

Lower West
Westwood52 Would love to have been a fly on the wall when MB negotiated his settlement.Everytime the Manager walks this is costing us big time.


Constructive dismissal possibly. Consulting employment law solicitors.


Willbe interesting. If he was offered the DofF role (a promotion) on a higher salary then would that be constructive dismissal ? The fact that he had done the job previously suggests it is a role he would have been suitable for and able to do, presumably the role was still vacant so was a genuine job rather than a non job. Probably the apparant lack of consultation would be an issue but surely this will be settled by payment of something less than the remaining length of his contract.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Sep 2020 18:26

andrew1957 I am only speculating but the fact Bowen flew out to Portugal suggests that he was at least considering staying on as DOF. Perhaps he wanted to decide for himself whether he could work with Paunonvich. If so perhaps that did not go well........

In any case none of us can blame him for wanting out from this mess. Hope he gets a chance to prove himself elsewhere. Lets hope the owners don't end up regretting their decision in a few months.

Maybe he wanted to give a handover to support the players and coaching and have some sort of sensible transition.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Sep 2020 18:34

Nameless
WoodleyRoyal the average tenure of a championship manager? So, on average, at the start of the 2019-20 Championship, a manager lasted 374 days, which is the equivalent of 1 year, 1 week and 2 days

https://sqaf.club/average-premier-leagu ... me-in-job/

we are no worse than any other club with the chopping and changing.


How long were Burns, Bullivant and Rogers in post under the much lamented ‘Reading Way’ ?

Burns way longer, he did about 10 games, a full season and then about half a season.

Between ~91 and 2013 (22 years) we had 7 permanent management teams

Between 2013 and 2020 (7 years) we've had 8 permanent management teams

That means our manager tenure is slightly below the average and therefore we're one of the basket cases bringing it so low.


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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Nameless » 03 Sep 2020 21:05

Snowflake Royal
Nameless
WoodleyRoyal the average tenure of a championship manager? So, on average, at the start of the 2019-20 Championship, a manager lasted 374 days, which is the equivalent of 1 year, 1 week and 2 days

https://sqaf.club/average-premier-leagu ... me-in-job/

we are no worse than any other club with the chopping and changing.


How long were Burns, Bullivant and Rogers in post under the much lamented ‘Reading Way’ ?

Burns way longer, he did about 10 games, a full season and then about half a season.

Between ~91 and 2013 (22 years) we had 7 permanent management teams

Between 2013 and 2020 (7 years) we've had 8 permanent management teams

That means our manager tenure is slightly below the average and therefore we're one of the basket cases bringing it so low.

Your numbers bear no relation to the rather bizarre waybthe article looks at management tenure, they simply compare snapshots from two random dates.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Sep 2020 21:10

Nameless
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Nameless
How long were Burns, Bullivant and Rogers in post under the much lamented ‘Reading Way’ ?

Burns way longer, he did about 10 games, a full season and then about half a season.

Between ~91 and 2013 (22 years) we had 7 permanent management teams

Between 2013 and 2020 (7 years) we've had 8 permanent management teams

That means our manager tenure is slightly below the average and therefore we're one of the basket cases bringing it so low.

Your numbers bear no relation to the rather bizarre waybthe article looks at management tenure, they simply compare snapshots from two random dates.

Nothing random about those dates.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Nameless » 03 Sep 2020 21:40

Snowflake Royal
Nameless
Snowflake Royal Burns way longer, he did about 10 games, a full season and then about half a season.

Between ~91 and 2013 (22 years) we had 7 permanent management teams

Between 2013 and 2020 (7 years) we've had 8 permanent management teams

That means our manager tenure is slightly below the average and therefore we're one of the basket cases bringing it so low.

Your numbers bear no relation to the rather bizarre waybthe article looks at management tenure, they simply compare snapshots from two random dates.

Nothing random about those dates.


In terms of the point under discussion there is.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Lower West » 03 Sep 2020 22:51

Snowflake Royal
andrew1957 I am only speculating but the fact Bowen flew out to Portugal suggests that he was at least considering staying on as DOF. Perhaps he wanted to decide for himself whether he could work with Paunonvich. If so perhaps that did not go well........

In any case none of us can blame him for wanting out from this mess. Hope he gets a chance to prove himself elsewhere. Lets hope the owners don't end up regretting their decision in a few months.

Maybe he wanted to give a handover to support the players and coaching and have some sort of sensible transition.


As a professional person thought it only right that he accompany the players out to Portugal. After all only a weekend away. The perfect riposte to his now ex-employers.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Sep 2020 08:13

Nameless
Snowflake Royal
Nameless Your numbers bear no relation to the rather bizarre waybthe article looks at management tenure, they simply compare snapshots from two random dates.

Nothing random about those dates.


In terms of the point under discussion there is.

The point under discussion is the effect on performance the frequent sacking of managers has.

The first to last perm management team appointed under Madejski's ownership which saw the most successful period in our history compared to the appointments since where we're gone into heavy decline is very relevant.

It's also relevant to point out that our average over that second period, and particularly our last three managers, have all fallen short of the average tenure Woodley describes and so we're part of what makes that tenure so short. The way averages work, that means there absolutely are multiple clubs that we are worse than in the Championship for managerial stability.

There's an argument that sometimes managers don't work out and you just have to pull the trigger early - Bullivant and Rodgers.

That realistically applies to Gomes, and though I was against it Clement. Stam got time and fell apart rather than starting poorly and not getting a chance. But it's clear as day there was no NEED to sack Bowen. And that what we've needed for a long time is stability

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Old Man Andrews » 04 Sep 2020 09:49

Snowflake Royal
Nameless
Snowflake Royal Nothing random about those dates.


In terms of the point under discussion there is.

The point under discussion is the effect on performance the frequent sacking of managers has.

The first to last perm management team appointed under Madejski's ownership which saw the most successful period in our history compared to the appointments since where we're gone into heavy decline is very relevant.

It's also relevant to point out that our average over that second period, and particularly our last three managers, have all fallen short of the average tenure Woodley describes and so we're part of what makes that tenure so short. The way averages work, that means there absolutely are multiple clubs that we are worse than in the Championship for managerial stability.

There's an argument that sometimes managers don't work out and you just have to pull the trigger early - Bullivant and Rodgers.

That realistically applies to Gomes, and though I was against it Clement. Stam got time and fell apart rather than starting poorly and not getting a chance. But it's clear as day there was no NEED to sack Bowen. And that what we've needed for a long time is stability

Why are you still talking about Reading FC. You went on record saying you were done with the club, you weren't interested. Everyone on the team board was excited by this and looking forward to not reading your bizarre ramblings.

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Re: Bowen out rumour

by Nameless » 04 Sep 2020 11:07

Snowflake Royal
Nameless
Snowflake Royal Nothing random about those dates.


In terms of the point under discussion there is.

The point under discussion is the effect on performance the frequent sacking of managers has.

The first to last perm management team appointed under Madejski's ownership which saw the most successful period in our history compared to the appointments since where we're gone into heavy decline is very relevant.

It's also relevant to point out that our average over that second period, and particularly our last three managers, have all fallen short of the average tenure Woodley describes and so we're part of what makes that tenure so short. The way averages work, that means there absolutely are multiple clubs that we are worse than in the Championship for managerial stability.

There's an argument that sometimes managers don't work out and you just have to pull the trigger early - Bullivant and Rodgers.

That realistically applies to Gomes, and though I was against it Clement. Stam got time and fell apart rather than starting poorly and not getting a chance. But it's clear as day there was no NEED to sack Bowen. And that what we've needed for a long time is stability


None of that is relevant.
The comments were about a specific study of management tenure comparing 2 random dates
You then said we were a basket case because for a totally different set of dates our managers had shorter tenure.
Whether changing managers is good or bad is a valid discussion but far from certain either way.
Whether you telling other people what they are to discuss or twisting stuff to suit your views is valid is also open to debate.

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