MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

303 posts
User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Zip » 09 Jan 2021 20:40

Hendo
Crowbar6753 I'm sorry, but the FA Cup has turned into a bit of a "Joke" competition. Back in the 70s & 80s the first two rounds of the cup were always the most exciting games to play, and hoping to make it to the third round and draw one of the big teams was stuff of dreams.
Now just about all the Championship/Premier teams play reserve teams until the later rounds ruining and devaluing the competition.

Back to today, yes i know the squad is small and players are tired, but our next game is in a weeks time giving plenty of time to recover and these are professional athletes we're talking about.

Today should have seen us start with the first team and then depending on the game bring on the younger players. Lets face it, if two or three more of our first teamers were playing today we would be in the hat for the fourth and fifth rounds as it stands.

Two days ago the manager was talking up the competition, mentioning the history of the cup and how well its regarded around the world and saying how he was looking forward to the competition!! only to go and pick a team that gave us little hope of winning!!

It wasn't to long ago we were playing Arsenal in the Semi Final, what a day that was.

Not good enough....


What happens if Joao, Laurent, Richards or a couple of other first teamers get injured for the rest of the season and that’s basically season over for another 1 or 2 rounds in the FA Cup? Not worth it with the position that we’re in in the league.

Pauno also picks a team that gave us little chance of winning, yet they created more than enough chances to win the game?


Yep it’s not as if we were outclassed. We just didn’t have a striker to finish. We have Meite injured, Puscas who may be injured again and Joao who has just come back from injury.
We all expected Puscas to play today.He may have made the difference because we created more than enough to win but if he isn’t right to play then Pauno’s hands were tied.

User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Zip » 09 Jan 2021 20:42

We have some huge games coming up. Do well in them and we are in with a serious chance of going up. It’s all about the League.

TiagoIlori
Member
Posts: 969
Joined: 31 Jul 2017 18:34

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by TiagoIlori » 09 Jan 2021 20:53

SCIAG
TiagoIlori I’m really impressed with Melvin-Lambert’s movement for his last gasp chance. It was brilliant and caught the defenders off guard, with a bit more experience he’d finish that. I see the potential in him.

Yep, he doesn’t seem to be the most mobile but shows some of the instincts of an old-fashioned poacher. Bit of a throwback. Needs to add the composure or improve his link play.

Aye, that should both improve in experience. Our academy is really starting to pay off now, up to the gaffer to give them the chances to step up as well as themselves to keep up their current conduct, the potential for a fair few of them is clearly there.

User avatar
Lower West
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 4915
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:35
Location: Admiring Clem Morfuni at Work

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Lower West » 09 Jan 2021 21:57

Some of these young players are the future. Getting them drilled into becoming 1st teamers is all part of the master plan. 8)

Delboy
Member
Posts: 388
Joined: 27 Nov 2011 10:54

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Delboy » 10 Jan 2021 06:27

Even if we had drawn Man Utd at home no excitement as no crowd , with under strength teams pointless. Manager got it right give youngsters experience, we have Brentford and Bournemouth this month and can not afford any more injuries!


Barney
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1042
Joined: 06 May 2005 14:04

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Barney » 10 Jan 2021 09:37

Hendo
Barney I'm not picking a ruck here, but what the HELL is this about fixture congestion !!!

We have 23 games to play in SEVENTEEN weeks !!!!!

Sorry...but that ain't fixture congestion.


:|

Oh I don’t know, but off the top of my head:

26 games in the previous 17 weeks
After an extended season last year
With hardly any preseason
With the possibility of games being cancelled due to COVID or maybe weather
Further FA Cup ties

This season isn’t just about what’s coming up, but what has already happened and the toll on the players towards the end of the season.

It also wouldn’t take much for us to end up needing to play 2 games a week most weeks.


So basically the same for every other Championship team as well then ?? :o

User avatar
Hendo
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 21034
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 20:53
Location: Lambs to the cosmic slaughter

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Hendo » 10 Jan 2021 09:49

Barney
Hendo
Barney I'm not picking a ruck here, but what the HELL is this about fixture congestion !!!

We have 23 games to play in SEVENTEEN weeks !!!!!

Sorry...but that ain't fixture congestion.


:|

Oh I don’t know, but off the top of my head:

26 games in the previous 17 weeks
After an extended season last year
With hardly any preseason
With the possibility of games being cancelled due to COVID or maybe weather
Further FA Cup ties

This season isn’t just about what’s coming up, but what has already happened and the toll on the players towards the end of the season.

It also wouldn’t take much for us to end up needing to play 2 games a week most weeks.


So basically the same for every other Championship team as well then ?? :o


Well no:

Some clubs may or may not be impacted by weather rearrangements or COVID rearrangements. For example - Rotherham are already 3 games behind most others.

Other clubs also have bigger squads than us.

Other clubs also don’t rely on a handful of players (some may argue just 1 player) being key to how we want to play and win games.

Finally, who gives a shit what other clubs do, if they want to put extra strain on their squad with everything that’s going on, that’s their lookout, potentially puts us in a much better position.

South Coast Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5642
Joined: 16 Jan 2020 17:29

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by South Coast Royal » 10 Jan 2021 11:28

I am split on this question of what level of side we should have put out yesterday.

I am with Barney and Crowbar in that I feel generally you should put out somewhere near your best side for all games as winning becomes a habit.
On this idea that you don't play certain individuals because they might get injured, do you also not let them train because they might get injured?
More injuries occur in training than in matches so there is an argument for them to play more and train less.

Having said that, with no crowds, therefore no Revenue , I can understand why we might opt out of Cup competitions (we already did in the Carabao Cup) as there is no financial incentive but the FA Cup was once even more prestigious than winning the first division title so I hate it that it has now become of such little consequence.

Just one more point on the number of games these lads play.
In theory a first-teamer will play 46 League games with the potential of 5 more if we reach the play-off final making a maximum of 51 games.
How many will play the full 90 minutes of all of those games?
None.

By comparison Liverpool in one season played 62 games travelling across Europe, playing on different quality pitches and used 15 players, most of whom played most games.
Now we have deiticians, sports scientists, analysts, advanced medical equipment and greater speed of travel between matches etc so is it such a big deal to think that players might have to perform in 40 odd games in a season, with or without a couple of weeks lost in pre--season.?

It will be seen over the coming weeks whether teams like Bournemouth ,who fielded almost a full first team yesterday (including the fragile David Brooks and Josh King) are affected by playing an extra game or two and BTW they have 2 games next week when we have just the one.

Jinx
Member
Posts: 762
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 19:41

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Jinx » 10 Jan 2021 11:44

Bournemouth made 10 changes - if you say that's their first team, then it just shows what a squad advantage they have


South Coast Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5642
Joined: 16 Jan 2020 17:29

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by South Coast Royal » 10 Jan 2021 11:59

Jinx Bournemouth made 10 changes - if you say that's their first team, then it just shows what a squad advantage they have


Not a true reflection of "changes"
Brooks and King are back from injury, Carter-Vickers made his much awaited return from injury as did Billing and Stacey who are normally regular first-teamers.
Riquelme has been coming on as sub as does Gosling and Adam Smith came on as sub this time.

They don't really have a first 11, rather they have about a first 16 as we would have if Moore, Yiadom, Aruna, Puscas and Meite were fit.

I have to admit to being initially surprised that Brooks and King started and Olise for us but then realised that even if these players were transferred to clubs still in the competition those clubs would continue to play weakened teams so no longer is it important not to be cup-tied.,

Incidentally at the other end of the table, did Wycombe and Sheff Wed play weakened teams-they surely don't want extra games or do they respect the FA Cup more than some others?

User avatar
RoyalBlue
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 11676
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 22:39
Location: Developed a pathological hatred of snakes on 14/10/19

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by RoyalBlue » 10 Jan 2021 12:07

Barney Wow...how times change. We are knocked out of the FA Cup by Luton and some folks are pretty OK about it ??

Puskas and Swfit have played something like just ELEVEN league games this season BETWEEN THEM !!! Surely, one or both could
have played some part today ? Resting them for what ?? They are professional footballers aren't they ??

I won't apologise for upsetting those that think today was acceptable. And for those that believe today was unacceptable...I totally agree.

Poor managment. Poor choice of team. Poor finishing.


This season it's a Mickey Mouse Tournament that should've been cancelled. Fans can't attend the big games and it's still quite likely the final will have to be played in an empty or near empty Wembley Stadium. Even if we played our strongest team in each round, the chances of winning the cup are less than making the playoffs. The rewards from making playoffs (assuming we don't make top two) and managing to pull off a win are significantly higher and more important to the future of the club than winning this season's FA Cup.

Puscas and Swift are only just returning from injury (the reason they have played so few games) and it would've been crazy to risk them in the game yesterday. That's why they were not selected (not 'rested'). They may be professional footballers but that doesn't make them supermen who can cope with playing competitive games every few days. There is a very good reason why top athletes don't compete twice a week on a regular basis!

The team selected today was not a bad team and had every chance of progressing. Indeed, with slightly more clinical finishing they would have done exactly that.

Mid Sussex Royal
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3249
Joined: 02 Nov 2008 17:56

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Mid Sussex Royal » 10 Jan 2021 13:01

Barney
Hendo
Barney I'm not picking a ruck here, but what the HELL is this about fixture congestion !!!

We have 23 games to play in SEVENTEEN weeks !!!!!

Sorry...but that ain't fixture congestion.


:|

Oh I don’t know, but off the top of my head:

26 games in the previous 17 weeks
After an extended season last year
With hardly any preseason
With the possibility of games being cancelled due to COVID or maybe weather
Further FA Cup ties

This season isn’t just about what’s coming up, but what has already happened and the toll on the players towards the end of the season.

It also wouldn’t take much for us to end up needing to play 2 games a week most weeks.


So basically the same for every other Championship team as well then ?? :o


yep indeed - and look at the sides most championship clubs put out yesterday

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39402
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Snowflake Royal » 10 Jan 2021 14:05

South Coast Royal On this idea that you don't play certain individuals because they might get injured, do you also not let them train because they might get injured?
More injuries occur in training than in matches so there is an argument for them to play more and train less.

This, but also, what if they get injured in the next league game... perhaps we shouldn't play them in that either? It's not like Luton are a rough side prone to nasty challenges.

It's not like we're in an immediately congested run of fixtures right now. The previous game was 7 days earlier, the one after 7 is days later.

I'm all behind giving young players a chance in the cup, but that means playing them alongside good experienced players IMO.


SCIAG
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6362
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 17:43
Location: Liburd for England

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by SCIAG » 10 Jan 2021 15:16

TiagoIlori
SCIAG
TiagoIlori I’m really impressed with Melvin-Lambert’s movement for his last gasp chance. It was brilliant and caught the defenders off guard, with a bit more experience he’d finish that. I see the potential in him.

Yep, he doesn’t seem to be the most mobile but shows some of the instincts of an old-fashioned poacher. Bit of a throwback. Needs to add the composure or improve his link play.

Aye, that should both improve in experience. Our academy is really starting to pay off now, up to the gaffer to give them the chances to step up as well as themselves to keep up their current conduct, the potential for a fair few of them is clearly there.

I’d quibble over “starting” - it has been paying off ever since Pearce and Karacan - but yes, it is really supporting our squad at the moment.

Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24934
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Hound » 10 Jan 2021 15:19

Again to those questioning the team - who would you have played?

Rino, Morrison, Laurent have played virtually every minute. Ovie looks like he needs a rest. Anyone who says Joao I’m not going to respond to you

Richards? Maybe but good opportunity to see his understudy

Swift - maybe but again just coming back from injury and potentially a key player if Olise goes

Puscas - yes but presuming unavailable

Rafael - southwood is fine and needed a game

Everyone else is either injured or did play. Basically left with Holmes who would have made little difference and Dorsett did very well

Think as Hendo mentioned it’s about what has gone before not what we’ve got coming up. Fully support resting as many as possible

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Nameless » 10 Jan 2021 16:10

Snowflake Royal
South Coast Royal On this idea that you don't play certain individuals because they might get injured, do you also not let them train because they might get injured?
More injuries occur in training than in matches so there is an argument for them to play more and train less.

This, but also, what if they get injured in the next league game... perhaps we shouldn't play them in that either? It's not like Luton are a rough side prone to nasty challenges.

It's not like we're in an immediately congested run of fixtures right now. The previous game was 7 days earlier, the one after 7 is days later.

I'm all behind giving young players a chance in the cup, but that means playing them alongside good experienced players IMO.



We picked the fit, experienced pros who it made sense to use. Half the team were experienced pros.
You can’t keep,argueing that we should have picked a different side when that arguement boils down to whether Holmes should have played instead of Dorsett

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Nameless » 10 Jan 2021 16:16

Snowflake Royal
South Coast Royal On this idea that you don't play certain individuals because they might get injured, do you also not let them train because they might get injured?
More injuries occur in training than in matches so there is an argument for them to play more and train less.

This, but also, what if they get injured in the next league game... perhaps we shouldn't play them in that either? It's not like Luton are a rough side prone to nasty challenges.

It's not like we're in an immediately congested run of fixtures right now. The previous game was 7 days earlier, the one after 7 is days later.

I'm all behind giving young players a chance in the cup, but that means playing them alongside good experienced players IMO.


Training is under your control. Intensity, duration, contact levels. Currently train8ng will be about recovery and match preparation not fitness . Suggesting players aren’t risked in training is non
Likewise not picking players for a league game is a non arguement, we obviously already do it. We’re rested Olise and we’ve brought Swift and Joao back gradually via the bench. It’s really not got any relevance to whether you play them in a cup game.

User avatar
bcubed
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11440
Joined: 30 Oct 2004 18:16
Location: Would do better with a stick of rhubarb

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by bcubed » 10 Jan 2021 18:07

Hound Again to those questioning the team - who would you have played?

Rino, Morrison, Laurent have played virtually every minute. Ovie looks like he needs a rest. Anyone who says Joao I’m not going to respond to you

Richards? Maybe but good opportunity to see his understudy

Swift - maybe but again just coming back from injury and potentially a key player if Olise goes

Puscas - yes but presuming unavailable

Rafael - southwood is fine and needed a game

Everyone else is either injured or did play. Basically left with Holmes who would have made little difference and Dorsett did very well

Think as Hendo mentioned it’s about what has gone before not what we’ve got coming up. Fully support resting as many as possible


Holmes Swift and Puscas

If not Puscas, Joao :wink:

I actually think Holmes would have made a significant difference to the defence and we would have had just one totally inexperienced player in there. So we would at least have had a solid defence, who pretty much knew how each other played. Swift in midfield would obviously have helped too but as someone said the pitch was shit which might not have suited him. Puscas was presumably not fit. Perhaps he could have been on the bench?

Just a shame to be out of the Cup and to lose future opportunities to play anyone outside the first team.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39402
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Snowflake Royal » 10 Jan 2021 20:12

One of Rino, Laurent or Swift probably should have started and certainly should have been on the bench.

You're all assuming Puscas was unavailable without anything to suggest it other than his lack of involvement.

Ejaria would benefit from bullying a team.

Baldock should not have started upfront on his own. If you're going to play a completely second string side, there's no need to stick to a system that doesn't work for the focal point of your attack.

It's as much about the bench as XI

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (a)

by Nameless » 10 Jan 2021 20:25

Snowflake Royal One of Rino, Laurent or Swift probably should have started and certainly should have been on the bench.

You're all assuming Puscas was unavailable without anything to suggest it other than his lack of involvement.

Ejaria would benefit from bullying a team.

Baldock should not have started upfront on his own. If you're going to play a completely second string side, there's no need to stick to a system that doesn't work for the focal point of your attack.

It's as much about the bench as XI


There’s no logic there !
Rino and Laurent clearly need a rest, making them start means they get no rest, putting them on the bench means they get suboptimal rest.
Swift has had 3 games after a long injury break. It’s not uncommon to get a reaction a few games after you come back from injury. Making him play a pivotal role in cold weather on a heavy pitch is taking risks with little or no reward.
Assuming Puscas didn’t play because he wasn’t fit is a much more reasonable assumption than the one you seem happy to make.
Why would Ejaria benefit from bullying a team ? Again, I suspect he’d benefit more from a week off.
I agree Baldock on his own is not a good option, but with our 3 other strikers unavailable the options ran out ( Although surprised you haven’t suggested Sam Smith )
So we’re still in the situation where the genuine options are extremely limited and the logic for not using players is much stronger than forcing them to turn out.

303 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Vicky Pollard, WestYorksRoyal and 344 guests

It is currently 28 Mar 2024 22:25