by Westwood52 » 30 May 2021 09:54
by Once upon a time . » 30 May 2021 13:47
by Franchise FC » 30 May 2021 14:22
Once upon a time . Well thanks Westwood52 , and there was me just thinking that Man City lost the game because the CB just didn’t do his job !
by Westwood52 » 30 May 2021 15:35
Once upon a time . Well thanks Westwood52 , and there was me just thinking that Man City lost the game because the CB just didn’t do his job !
by bloody Volvo driver » 31 May 2021 08:28
by BR0B0T » 31 May 2021 11:13
Westwood52 This week's two European finals, emphasized how vital the correct tactics and the right coaching are at the highest level.
In the United game, a vastly inferior Villarreal were able to drag down a star-studded United attack into a cul de sac. Fernandez was never in the game, Pogba disappeared after half time and Cavani cut an isolated, frustrated figure.
Last night saw Man City, dragged by Tuchel into a series of blind alleys where they had nowhere to go. Over the two games, both Manchester sides managed one meaningful shot on target each. At least Pep recognised the problem and changed his tactics, albeit to no avail. While OGS simply waited for penalties after throwing in the towel during extra time.
Southgate is not an experienced successful coach, and I fear the worst in the Euros.
Is Pauno a good coach? If Plan A doesn’t work, over the season he struggled to come up with an alternative. Hopefully next season with his personally recruited bench, he can flex alternatives.
TBF overcomplicating the game was Gomes’s downfall. He tried to apply a scientific, cerebral game plan: which the players he had available to him, had no hope of applying. On the other side of the spectrum, the traditional approaches of Allardyce, Redknapp, Pulis (and maybe even Ferguson) appear to be something out of the dark ages. Get the ball and play, would no longer work as such tactics will be sucked into being exploited. The ever-evolving appeal of this game.
by Snowflake Royal » 31 May 2021 13:22
by Sutekh » 31 May 2021 13:46
Snowflake Royal As for Southgate not being successful? Didn't he win a trophy at Boro? And whilst he might have had an easy ride, he's got further than any manager for England since Robson. And experienced? He's been managing for about 15 years!
by Elm Park Kid » 31 May 2021 17:25
by Linden Jones' Tash » 31 May 2021 18:24
by Elm Park Kid » 31 May 2021 21:25
Linden Jones' Tash Unless you are Chelsea?
by Franchise FC » 31 May 2021 21:52
Elm Park KidLinden Jones' Tash Unless you are Chelsea?
Well yeah, if Reading spent £200m every season it wouldn't be a big issue.
by SCIAG » 31 May 2021 22:36
Sutekh
As England manager he’s basically done what any manager of England should be able to do given the talent available.
by Westwood52 » 01 Jun 2021 08:49
SCIAGSutekh
As England manager he’s basically done what any manager of England should be able to do given the talent available.
Have you forgotten 2018? Our best World Cup performance since 1990 despite what was seen as a pretty weak squad? Nobody was expecting us to get to the semi-finals that year.
He followed that up with a third placed finish in the Nations League.
He's already proven a better England manager than Glenn Hoddle, Terry Venables, Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello, Roy Hodgson, and the rest of them. To write that off as "just doing what anyone should be able to do" ignores that multiple talented managers failed to do it!
I understand that some fans are upset that he doesn't pick Foden, Grealish, Mount and Maddison in the same team. To those people, I point to the Sven era... the last World Cup winners who didn't play two defensive midfielders were the West Germany team of 1990! In the same time period, five of the seven Euro winners did the same. Southgate isn't unusually conservative by the standards of major tournament winners.
by Royalwaster » 01 Jun 2021 09:32
SCIAGSutekh
As England manager he’s basically done what any manager of England should be able to do given the talent available.
Have you forgotten 2018? Our best World Cup performance since 1990 despite what was seen as a pretty weak squad? Nobody was expecting us to get to the semi-finals that year.
He followed that up with a third placed finish in the Nations League.
He's already proven a better England manager than Glenn Hoddle, Terry Venables, Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello, Roy Hodgson, and the rest of them. To write that off as "just doing what anyone should be able to do" ignores that multiple talented managers failed to do it!
I understand that some fans are upset that he doesn't pick Foden, Grealish, Mount and Maddison in the same team. To those people, I point to the Sven era... the last World Cup winners who didn't play two defensive midfielders were the West Germany team of 1990! In the same time period, five of the seven Euro winners did the same. Southgate isn't unusually conservative by the standards of major tournament winners.
by muirinho » 01 Jun 2021 10:19
RoyalwasterSCIAGSutekh
As England manager he’s basically done what any manager of England should be able to do given the talent available.
Have you forgotten 2018? Our best World Cup performance since 1990 despite what was seen as a pretty weak squad? Nobody was expecting us to get to the semi-finals that year.
He followed that up with a third placed finish in the Nations League.
He's already proven a better England manager than Glenn Hoddle, Terry Venables, Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello, Roy Hodgson, and the rest of them. To write that off as "just doing what anyone should be able to do" ignores that multiple talented managers failed to do it!
I understand that some fans are upset that he doesn't pick Foden, Grealish, Mount and Maddison in the same team. To those people, I point to the Sven era... the last World Cup winners who didn't play two defensive midfielders were the West Germany team of 1990! In the same time period, five of the seven Euro winners did the same. Southgate isn't unusually conservative by the standards of major tournament winners.
I wish I'm wrong but I also don't rate Gareth Southgate .. 2018 was a bit lucky as we got a very easy draw. As soon as we met someone good, we lost. Seriously, do you think if GS became Chelsea or ManCity manager, do you think they'd win the Prem or CL?
by muirinho » 01 Jun 2021 10:26
muirinhoRoyalwasterSCIAG Have you forgotten 2018? Our best World Cup performance since 1990 despite what was seen as a pretty weak squad? Nobody was expecting us to get to the semi-finals that year.
He followed that up with a third placed finish in the Nations League.
He's already proven a better England manager than Glenn Hoddle, Terry Venables, Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello, Roy Hodgson, and the rest of them. To write that off as "just doing what anyone should be able to do" ignores that multiple talented managers failed to do it!
I understand that some fans are upset that he doesn't pick Foden, Grealish, Mount and Maddison in the same team. To those people, I point to the Sven era... the last World Cup winners who didn't play two defensive midfielders were the West Germany team of 1990! In the same time period, five of the seven Euro winners did the same. Southgate isn't unusually conservative by the standards of major tournament winners.
I wish I'm wrong but I also don't rate Gareth Southgate .. 2018 was a bit lucky as we got a very easy draw. As soon as we met someone good, we lost. Seriously, do you think if GS became Chelsea or ManCity manager, do you think they'd win the Prem or CL?
I've no dog in this fight, but just wanted to comment on that last line.
Managing a club is entirely different to managing a country. When you manage a club you're trying to get the players you want and are suited to the style of play you want. You're looking at how players develop long-term, and bringing through players from the academy, or going shopping for players if you don't like what's available. There's a lot more long-term strategic planning going on (you'd hope).
Managing a country, on the other hand, is about analysing the resources you've got, and coming up with the best game-plans and formations, with those players. You've got to meld players who are used to entirely different formations and styles of play to a coherent whole - generally speaking within a very short timescale. There isn't any long-term strategic planning as part of your role - it's all about the next set of games.
Being good at one does not mean being good at the other.
Oddly enough, I'd think that managers who've spent their careers in smaller clubs, where there isn't an unlimited pool of excellent players, and you're trying to make silk purses of a random collection of loanees and free transfers - those skills are probably a lot more transferable to managing a country then managers of clubs like Man City.
by SCIAG » 01 Jun 2021 13:06
Westwood52SCIAGSutekh
As England manager he’s basically done what any manager of England should be able to do given the talent available.
Have you forgotten 2018? Our best World Cup performance since 1990 despite what was seen as a pretty weak squad? Nobody was expecting us to get to the semi-finals that year.
He followed that up with a third placed finish in the Nations League.
He's already proven a better England manager than Glenn Hoddle, Terry Venables, Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello, Roy Hodgson, and the rest of them. To write that off as "just doing what anyone should be able to do" ignores that multiple talented managers failed to do it!
I understand that some fans are upset that he doesn't pick Foden, Grealish, Mount and Maddison in the same team. To those people, I point to the Sven era... the last World Cup winners who didn't play two defensive midfielders were the West Germany team of 1990! In the same time period, five of the seven Euro winners did the same. Southgate isn't unusually conservative by the standards of major tournament winners.
Didn’t El Tel get us to a semi ?
by Franchise FC » 01 Jun 2021 14:00
SCIAGWestwood52SCIAG Have you forgotten 2018? Our best World Cup performance since 1990 despite what was seen as a pretty weak squad? Nobody was expecting us to get to the semi-finals that year.
He followed that up with a third placed finish in the Nations League.
He's already proven a better England manager than Glenn Hoddle, Terry Venables, Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello, Roy Hodgson, and the rest of them. To write that off as "just doing what anyone should be able to do" ignores that multiple talented managers failed to do it!
I understand that some fans are upset that he doesn't pick Foden, Grealish, Mount and Maddison in the same team. To those people, I point to the Sven era... the last World Cup winners who didn't play two defensive midfielders were the West Germany team of 1990! In the same time period, five of the seven Euro winners did the same. Southgate isn't unusually conservative by the standards of major tournament winners.
Didn’t El Tel get us to a semi ?
No. Hoddle did (96) but that was at home, and in a 16-team Euros. Only won one knockout match.
I don’t really buy the “easy draw” argument either - we’ve performed worse with weaker draws. Colombia were a very good side.
by SCIAG » 02 Jun 2021 09:38
Franchise FCSCIAGWestwood52
Didn’t El Tel get us to a semi ?
No. Hoddle did (96) but that was at home, and in a 16-team Euros. Only won one knockout match.
I don’t really buy the “easy draw” argument either - we’ve performed worse with weaker draws. Colombia were a very good side.
You might want to check before definitively making a statement.
It was need Terry Vegetable that managed England to that semi
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