Points Deduction Incoming!

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Stranded
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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Stranded » 08 Oct 2021 13:11

Nameless
paultheroyal
Hound Will be interesting to see.

there must be other clubs who have also broken FFP and will do so over the next couple of years. Too late to 'set an example of us' I imagine, and more likely to be a fairly acceptable penalty which will set a standard precedent



the feeling is 6 points - take that all day long.


DOn’t think we could complain at that.
We’d not drop into the relegation zone, and I really don’t think it would put as at risk of ending the season in the bottom 3. Probably make the playoffs out of reach but they were probably not going to be a target this year anyway.
If Pauno is clever he’d use this as a real motivator - challenge the players to go out and win those points back asap


If it is 6, it will depend on a) when the points finally come off and b) if we keep the form going. If you look at the next 6 games, you can make a decent argument that a run of W4 D1 L1 is more than possible from them - if we manage that we'll be on 29pts from 17 - lose 6 and then becomes 23 from 17, which will likely only be 4 or 5 points outside the top 6.

I would agree a PO run is unlikely but I would not rule it out if the team continues to improve as they are.

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Sutekh » 08 Oct 2021 13:52

Nameless
loyalroyal4life sorry if i missed this being discussed but IF hypothetically we were promoted this year would that mean any pending FFP penalties would be effectively written off?


Don’t think they would just be written off. They would be sat waiting there for when we returned to the Championship......


Weren’t QPR charged after they last returned to the FL though they argued about it and after a couple of years just got a monetary fine. Also were Bournemouth (and then Wolves) within the rules when they were promoted?

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by paultheroyal » 08 Oct 2021 14:37

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the feeling is 6 points - take that all day long.


DOn’t think we could complain at that.
We’d not drop into the relegation zone, and I really don’t think it would put as at risk of ending the season in the bottom 3. Probably make the playoffs out of reach but they were probably not going to be a target this year anyway.
If Pauno is clever he’d use this as a real motivator - challenge the players to go out and win those points back asap


If it is 6, it will depend on a) when the points finally come off and b) if we keep the form going. If you look at the next 6 games, you can make a decent argument that a run of W4 D1 L1 is more than possible from them - if we manage that we'll be on 29pts from 17 - lose 6 and then becomes 23 from 17, which will likely only be 4 or 5 points outside the top 6.

I would agree a PO run is unlikely but I would not rule it out if the team continues to improve as they are.


Improve and have key players back from injury. Either way, an exciting season ahead where they need our full support.

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Oct 2021 17:25

Chairman Mao
Snowflake Royal We could easily be paying:

Moore - £30k
Swift - £25k
Cabral - £20k
Ejaria - £20k
Joao - £18k
Meite - £18k
Puscas - £18k
Yiadom - £16k
£165k = £8.5m

Morrison - £12k
Rahman - £8.5k
Araruna - £10k
McIntyre - £10k
Holmes - £8k
Laurent - £12k
Rinomhota - £8k
Dele-Bashiru - £8.5k
Hoilett - £8k
Southwood - £6k
Tetek - £4k
Halilovic - £8k
Bristow - £2k
Drinkwater - £8.5k
Dann - £8k
Azeez - £4k
£125.5k = £6.5m

That's £15m for the first team squad. Add in Academy and coaches and we could reasonably be knocking in around £18m to £20m. Which means we'd still be making a loss. And that would have come down about £13m in two seasons.

Much better but we could do with a couple of years of profit.


15 million would be at the conservative end of estimates wouldnt it?

I'm actually fairly encouraged by doing that. But I think you could comfortably say a +/- range of £5m/£2m Mind you, I'm not sure I could have got close to £30m from doing the same thing 2 years ago. The amount we must have been paying some of those clowns. :shock:

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by tidus_mi2 » 11 Oct 2021 12:31

Derby appealing their 12pt deduction, will be interesting what happens with our own if it is happening. Surely we can't end up with a similar deduction to Derby or it will show there is no point in co-operating with the EFL


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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Nameless » 11 Oct 2021 12:42

As they are in administration won’t it be the administrators appealing ?
Presumably they have. Legal duty to explore every avenue regarding running the club and trying to get the points reduced would be. Huge financial benefit. There may only be a slim chance of succeeding but they have to raise the question.
If they did get it reduced it would impact our deduction potentially so you would think our announcement might get delayed ?

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by tidus_mi2 » 11 Oct 2021 12:44

Sorry, I didn't say in my comment but it was indeed the administrators who appealed it.

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Franchise FC » 11 Oct 2021 12:50

If that appeal is successful then I would expect a raft of legal claims from clubs who have previous deductions for entering administration
Last edited by Franchise FC on 11 Oct 2021 12:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Hendo » 11 Oct 2021 12:52

Franchise FC If that deduction is successful then I would expect a raft of legal claims from clubs who have previous deductions for entering administration


This. I thought the 12pt deduction for entering admin was pretty much cut and dry.


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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by NathStPaul » 11 Oct 2021 12:54

Strikes me as Derby just trying it on, can't blame them really. All clubs know what they signed up for and know the rules, their appeal just doesn't hold weight.

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by WestYorksRoyal » 11 Oct 2021 12:55

Hendo
Franchise FC If that deduction is successful then I would expect a raft of legal claims from clubs who have previous deductions for entering administration


This. I thought the 12pt deduction for entering admin was pretty much cut and dry.

Literally no sense in appealing it. The laws are as clear as they can be

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Franchise FC » 11 Oct 2021 12:58

NathStPaul Strikes me as Derby just trying it on, can't blame them really. All clubs know what they signed up for and know the rules, their appeal just doesn't hold weight.

I've not seen or heard anything from previous administrations, but do you think all administrators try this on ?

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Nameless » 11 Oct 2021 13:01

THe basis for their appeal is COVID. They are claiming that they only went into administration because of the exceptional circumstances of the pandemic. Did it hit Derby especially hard ?


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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Coppells Lost Coat » 11 Oct 2021 13:10

Could it be a delaying tactic? i am not sure if there is a cut off date when a points deductions are deferred to the following season. Drag it through courts and appeal everything to make it roll onto 22/23 season.
Just a thought.

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Wycombe Royal » 11 Oct 2021 13:11

They would have to be prove that if Covid hadn't happened and revenues were normal during the period then they would not have entered admin....however considering the size of the bill they owe HMRC I would find that hard to believe.....time for the accountants to do their work...

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Hendo » 11 Oct 2021 13:42

Coppells Lost Coat Could it be a delaying tactic? i am not sure if there is a cut off date when a points deductions are deferred to the following season. Drag it through courts and appeal everything to make it roll onto 22/23 season.
Just a thought.


They've already had the admin deduction applied though.

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Coppells Lost Coat » 11 Oct 2021 14:57

Hendo
Coppells Lost Coat Could it be a delaying tactic? i am not sure if there is a cut off date when a points deductions are deferred to the following season. Drag it through courts and appeal everything to make it roll onto 22/23 season.
Just a thought.


They've already had the admin deduction applied though.



:oops:
.........I definitely have been paying attention

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Mr Angry » 11 Oct 2021 14:58

If this appeal works, watch a whole raft of clubs doing the same thing; go into administration to screw your creditors (and staff) but without the hit on your league position. Then, get bought by a "consortium" that just happens to include relatives/friends of the previous owners.

Personally, I would like there to be an additional penalty for a frivilous appeal...........

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by Lower West » 11 Oct 2021 16:13

How many buyers are there for Derby? The Premier elite are moving away at a rapid speed. Gulf will soon be a chasm. Perhaps the new Newcastle owners will buy the club to play their reserves in.

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Re: Points Deduction Incoming!

by 6ft Kerplunk » 11 Oct 2021 16:16

Mike Ashley's got a bit of spare cash right now....

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