Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by SCIAG » 27 Oct 2021 10:41

Millsy
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windermereROYAL You only have to look back at the 106 season, more or less an unchanged team or all 46 games. there were a few niggles but they were normally back within a few weeks.
They weren`t made of glass like this lot.

Completely wrong, as discussed recently, the iconic lineup of Hahnemann-Murty-Sonko-Ivar-Shorey-Little-Sidwell-Harper-Convey-Doyle-Kitson actually only started six games. We very rarely had an unchanged side.

Little, Sidwell, Kitson and Lita all missed significant periods of the season. We had to use Stephen Hunt as a striker and a left back at various times. We were very lucky that Sonko and Ivar were fit all season (as well as Harper and Convey). At one stage we had Murty, Shorey, Sidwell, Kitson, and Little all injured, plus Stack unavailable. Check out the famous win over Sheffield United - our bench was Federici, Osano, Baradji, Oster (on for injured Little at half time) and Obinna.

One major difference is that back then we had a core squad of 15 outfield players. Now we have a squad of 22 or 23 outfield players, 50% bigger. So having 50% more injuries makes sense even before we consider things like COVID.


So even with only 15 outfield players we were able to able to field a side that was pretty solid, noone majorly out of position and beat records.

We've been playing midfielders in defence and as full backs, midfielders up front. Despite a larger squad where we should have 50% more residual fit players going by your numbers.

To deny there's even an issue here is very surprising. Are you a professional club apologist perchance?

No, I’m just not an idiot.

In 2005, our squad had a proper pre-season for the second year running and we still had to use a winger at full back, a midfielder on the wing, and some bloke who last played for Stuttgart Kickers in the German regional leagues up front.

This season we have a squad that hasn’t had a normal pre-season for two years which has adversely affected their conditioning. We’ve had a freak number of knee ligament strains, impact injuries and broken bones which I find it hard to believe Jon Fearn could magically have prevented.

You’d know this if you’d read the article on the club site.

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Oct 2021 12:42

SCIAG
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SCIAG Completely wrong, as discussed recently, the iconic lineup of Hahnemann-Murty-Sonko-Ivar-Shorey-Little-Sidwell-Harper-Convey-Doyle-Kitson actually only started six games. We very rarely had an unchanged side.

Little, Sidwell, Kitson and Lita all missed significant periods of the season. We had to use Stephen Hunt as a striker and a left back at various times. We were very lucky that Sonko and Ivar were fit all season (as well as Harper and Convey). At one stage we had Murty, Shorey, Sidwell, Kitson, and Little all injured, plus Stack unavailable. Check out the famous win over Sheffield United - our bench was Federici, Osano, Baradji, Oster (on for injured Little at half time) and Obinna.

One major difference is that back then we had a core squad of 15 outfield players. Now we have a squad of 22 or 23 outfield players, 50% bigger. So having 50% more injuries makes sense even before we consider things like COVID.


So even with only 15 outfield players we were able to able to field a side that was pretty solid, noone majorly out of position and beat records.

We've been playing midfielders in defence and as full backs, midfielders up front. Despite a larger squad where we should have 50% more residual fit players going by your numbers.

To deny there's even an issue here is very surprising. Are you a professional club apologist perchance?

No, I’m just not an idiot.

In 2005, our squad had a proper pre-season for the second year running and we still had to use a winger at full back, a midfielder on the wing, and some bloke who last played for Stuttgart Kickers in the German regional leagues up front.

This season we have a squad that hasn’t had a normal pre-season for two years which has adversely affected their conditioning. We’ve had a freak number of knee ligament strains, impact injuries and broken bones which I find it hard to believe Jon Fearn could magically have prevented.

You’d know this if you’d read the article on the club site.

The one that was semi propaganda?

Only impact injuries my arse

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Hendo » 27 Oct 2021 12:47

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Millsy
So even with only 15 outfield players we were able to able to field a side that was pretty solid, noone majorly out of position and beat records.

We've been playing midfielders in defence and as full backs, midfielders up front. Despite a larger squad where we should have 50% more residual fit players going by your numbers.

To deny there's even an issue here is very surprising. Are you a professional club apologist perchance?

No, I’m just not an idiot.

In 2005, our squad had a proper pre-season for the second year running and we still had to use a winger at full back, a midfielder on the wing, and some bloke who last played for Stuttgart Kickers in the German regional leagues up front.

This season we have a squad that hasn’t had a normal pre-season for two years which has adversely affected their conditioning. We’ve had a freak number of knee ligament strains, impact injuries and broken bones which I find it hard to believe Jon Fearn could magically have prevented.

You’d know this if you’d read the article on the club site.

The one that was semi propaganda?

Only impact injuries my arse


Just because it doesn't fit your narrative, it is propaganda?

Which ones, in your mind, aren't impact injuries?

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Hound » 28 Oct 2021 09:39

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SCIAG No, I’m just not an idiot.

In 2005, our squad had a proper pre-season for the second year running and we still had to use a winger at full back, a midfielder on the wing, and some bloke who last played for Stuttgart Kickers in the German regional leagues up front.

This season we have a squad that hasn’t had a normal pre-season for two years which has adversely affected their conditioning. We’ve had a freak number of knee ligament strains, impact injuries and broken bones which I find it hard to believe Jon Fearn could magically have prevented.

You’d know this if you’d read the article on the club site.

The one that was semi propaganda?

Only impact injuries my arse


Just because it doesn't fit your narrative, it is propaganda?

Which ones, in your mind, aren't impact injuries?


racking my brains a bit - but

Meite - guessing that was some pre-season nastiness. Prob an impact injury of some sort
Joao - was after a nasty fall. Both the hip and shoulder
Morro - yes
Tetek - not sure
Rino - yes
McIntyre - yes
Moore- yes
Holmes - probably

The ones I'd question would be the hamstring ones - Azeez, AH and Hoilett

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Snowflake Royal » 28 Oct 2021 12:35

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Snowflake Royal The one that was semi propaganda?

Only impact injuries my arse


Just because it doesn't fit your narrative, it is propaganda?

Which ones, in your mind, aren't impact injuries?


racking my brains a bit - but

Meite - guessing that was some pre-season nastiness. Prob an impact injury of some sort
Joao - was after a nasty fall. Both the hip and shoulder
Morro - yes
Tetek - not sure
Rino - yes
McIntyre - yes
Moore- yes
Holmes - probably

The ones I'd question would be the hamstring ones - Azeez, AH and Hoilett

Not convinced Meite's would be impact. It was early in preseason when that should be unlikely. And I've definitely seen ACL go with no impact.

I'd question Rino's as well. There may have been an initial knock, but that doesn't explain him being out for a month after he could be back any day.

Quite a few of those impacts have been pretty innocuous looking.


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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Millsy » 29 Oct 2021 00:35

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So even with only 15 outfield players we were able to able to field a side that was pretty solid, noone majorly out of position and beat records.

We've been playing midfielders in defence and as full backs, midfielders up front. Despite a larger squad where we should have 50% more residual fit players going by your numbers.

To deny there's even an issue here is very surprising. Are you a professional club apologist perchance?

No, I’m just not an idiot.

In 2005, our squad had a proper pre-season for the second year running and we still had to use a winger at full back, a midfielder on the wing, and some bloke who last played for Stuttgart Kickers in the German regional leagues up front.

This season we have a squad that hasn’t had a normal pre-season for two years which has adversely affected their conditioning. We’ve had a freak number of knee ligament strains, impact injuries and broken bones which I find it hard to believe Jon Fearn could magically have prevented.

You’d know this if you’d read the article on the club site.

The one that was semi propaganda?

Only impact injuries my arse


Ian's spot on. They might think football fans are beer-swilling simpletons who will believe anything but they forget the demographic is very broad. Obviously, no club will admit they've got the wrong setup and will do everything in their power to suggest otherwise.

You're not an idiot SCIAG, that's my issue. If not a club apologist then a "useful idiot" perhaps if falling for the official line.

Wingers/full backs, Midfielders/wingers, vs central midfielders in CD and at FB, no strikers, functionally empty benches etc... Again, genuinely stunned you are seriously trying to equate the injury omnishambles of this year with that year.

As for preseason 1) the problems have predated covid and preseason, it's been several years of trouble 2) there is no reason a club with a decent medical system cannot make sure players that are costing the club hundreds of thousands of pounds per week are not kept fit ESPECIALLY when no preseason - pretty bread and butter stuff for medical/fitness pros... it's where they shine and pretty much the number one item on their risk register (if they even have one!) 3) which is it... no preseason or you actually believe the line of freak injuries... why do you need the preseason excuse if they're all totally understandable freak collisions etc

As for the line that these are "freak" injuries I can categorically tell you that's BS, have already touched on this in previous posts and won't dignify it with further comment. If that's the best the club can come up with or it's what they genuinely believe then I rest my case. They're incompetent either way.

There is something wrong at the club for us to be hit with so much 'freakery' for so long. I'm not going to speculate if it's medicals when they join, the coaching, the sport science, the nutrition, the training schedules, the medical advice, the physios, pressure from above to play players etc etc or a mixture. Just that things have happened in some areas that seem to have 'freakishly' coincided with 'freak' injuries.

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by SCIAG » 30 Oct 2021 23:55

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SCIAG No, I’m just not an idiot.

In 2005, our squad had a proper pre-season for the second year running and we still had to use a winger at full back, a midfielder on the wing, and some bloke who last played for Stuttgart Kickers in the German regional leagues up front.

This season we have a squad that hasn’t had a normal pre-season for two years which has adversely affected their conditioning. We’ve had a freak number of knee ligament strains, impact injuries and broken bones which I find it hard to believe Jon Fearn could magically have prevented.

You’d know this if you’d read the article on the club site.

The one that was semi propaganda?

Only impact injuries my arse


Ian's spot on. They might think football fans are beer-swilling simpletons who will believe anything but they forget the demographic is very broad. Obviously, no club will admit they've got the wrong setup and will do everything in their power to suggest otherwise.

You're not an idiot SCIAG, that's my issue. If not a club apologist then a "useful idiot" perhaps if falling for the official line.

Wingers/full backs, Midfielders/wingers, vs central midfielders in CD and at FB, no strikers, functionally empty benches etc... Again, genuinely stunned you are seriously trying to equate the injury omnishambles of this year with that year.

As for preseason 1) the problems have predated covid and preseason, it's been several years of trouble 2) there is no reason a club with a decent medical system cannot make sure players that are costing the club hundreds of thousands of pounds per week are not kept fit ESPECIALLY when no preseason - pretty bread and butter stuff for medical/fitness pros... it's where they shine and pretty much the number one item on their risk register (if they even have one!) 3) which is it... no preseason or you actually believe the line of freak injuries... why do you need the preseason excuse if they're all totally understandable freak collisions etc

As for the line that these are "freak" injuries I can categorically tell you that's BS, have already touched on this in previous posts and won't dignify it with further comment. If that's the best the club can come up with or it's what they genuinely believe then I rest my case. They're incompetent either way.

There is something wrong at the club for us to be hit with so much 'freakery' for so long. I'm not going to speculate if it's medicals when they join, the coaching, the sport science, the nutrition, the training schedules, the medical advice, the physios, pressure from above to play players etc etc or a mixture. Just that things have happened in some areas that seem to have 'freakishly' coincided with 'freak' injuries.

Shouldn’t have implied that you’re an idiot (soz) but I’ll trust medical professionals who are actually working with the players ahead of blokes on the internet, even if said professionals are obviously biased in their favour.

Four centre backs injured at once is unlucky, but not exactly unheard of. Happened to Liverpool last season, happened to Man United a couple of separate times at the end of the Fergie years and once under Van Gaal, Wenger having to play Igors Stepanovs - I’m sure there are more examples that aren’t as prominent.

Hard to exaggerate what a shit bench Federici-Osano-Baradji-Oster-Obinna was. Feds has obviously gone up in estimations since but Osano and Obinna simply weren’t professional standard and Baradji spent his whole career getting relegated from obscure leagues. Six of tonight’s bench have played more for us than Feds or Obinna had up to that point, or Osano and Baradji ever managed combined.

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Millsy » 31 Oct 2021 00:20

SCIAG
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Snowflake Royal The one that was semi propaganda?

Only impact injuries my arse


Ian's spot on. They might think football fans are beer-swilling simpletons who will believe anything but they forget the demographic is very broad. Obviously, no club will admit they've got the wrong setup and will do everything in their power to suggest otherwise.

You're not an idiot SCIAG, that's my issue. If not a club apologist then a "useful idiot" perhaps if falling for the official line.

Wingers/full backs, Midfielders/wingers, vs central midfielders in CD and at FB, no strikers, functionally empty benches etc... Again, genuinely stunned you are seriously trying to equate the injury omnishambles of this year with that year.

As for preseason 1) the problems have predated covid and preseason, it's been several years of trouble 2) there is no reason a club with a decent medical system cannot make sure players that are costing the club hundreds of thousands of pounds per week are not kept fit ESPECIALLY when no preseason - pretty bread and butter stuff for medical/fitness pros... it's where they shine and pretty much the number one item on their risk register (if they even have one!) 3) which is it... no preseason or you actually believe the line of freak injuries... why do you need the preseason excuse if they're all totally understandable freak collisions etc

As for the line that these are "freak" injuries I can categorically tell you that's BS, have already touched on this in previous posts and won't dignify it with further comment. If that's the best the club can come up with or it's what they genuinely believe then I rest my case. They're incompetent either way.

There is something wrong at the club for us to be hit with so much 'freakery' for so long. I'm not going to speculate if it's medicals when they join, the coaching, the sport science, the nutrition, the training schedules, the medical advice, the physios, pressure from above to play players etc etc or a mixture. Just that things have happened in some areas that seem to have 'freakishly' coincided with 'freak' injuries.

Shouldn’t have implied that you’re an idiot (soz) but I’ll trust medical professionals who are actually working with the players ahead of blokes on the internet, even if said professionals are obviously biased in their favour.

Four centre backs injured at once is unlucky, but not exactly unheard of. Happened to Liverpool last season, happened to Man United a couple of separate times at the end of the Fergie years and once under Van Gaal, Wenger having to play Igors Stepanovs - I’m sure there are more examples that aren’t as prominent.

Hard to exaggerate what a shit bench Federici-Osano-Baradji-Oster-Obinna was. Feds has obviously gone up in estimations since but Osano and Obinna simply weren’t professional standard and Baradji spent his whole career getting relegated from obscure leagues. Six of tonight’s bench have played more for us than Feds or Obinna had up to that point, or Osano and Baradji ever managed combined.


Thank you for your contribution to this thread SCIAG. Head, brick wall, so I don't believe we have much more to say to each other in this thread, but I will always continue to respect you outside of this topic. Peace.

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Forbury Lion » 01 Nov 2021 11:01

A texter to BBC Berks raised a valid point..... Do we not have any strikers in the pipeline? With the injuries we have up front, this is where you could take a chance and give the next Danny Loader, Darius Henderson or whoever a few minutes of gameplay.
The examples they quoted were Wayne Rooney and Micheal Owen who first got picked due to injuries, although I personally can't recall them ever playing for Reading :lol:


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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Hound » 01 Nov 2021 11:25

Forbury Lion A texter to BBC Berks raised a valid point..... Do we not have any strikers in the pipeline? With the injuries we have up front, this is where you could take a chance and give the next Danny Loader, Darius Henderson or whoever a few minutes of gameplay.
The examples they quoted were Wayne Rooney and Micheal Owen who first got picked due to injuries, although I personally can't recall them ever playing for Reading :lol:


has the texter to BBC Berks not been noticing that chap called Clarke coming on as sub every game for us?

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by URZZZZ » 01 Nov 2021 11:32

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Forbury Lion A texter to BBC Berks raised a valid point..... Do we not have any strikers in the pipeline? With the injuries we have up front, this is where you could take a chance and give the next Danny Loader, Darius Henderson or whoever a few minutes of gameplay.
The examples they quoted were Wayne Rooney and Micheal Owen who first got picked due to injuries, although I personally can't recall them ever playing for Reading :lol:


has the texter to BBC Berks not been noticing that chap called Clarke coming on as sub every game for us?


In the 84th minute each game. What’s the point?

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Hound » 01 Nov 2021 11:36

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Forbury Lion A texter to BBC Berks raised a valid point..... Do we not have any strikers in the pipeline? With the injuries we have up front, this is where you could take a chance and give the next Danny Loader, Darius Henderson or whoever a few minutes of gameplay.
The examples they quoted were Wayne Rooney and Micheal Owen who first got picked due to injuries, although I personally can't recall them ever playing for Reading :lol:


has the texter to BBC Berks not been noticing that chap called Clarke coming on as sub every game for us?


In the 84th minute each game. What’s the point?


well he came on for 30 mins against Derby.

And the original question was ' a few minutes of gameplay'. So yes fits the description pretty well.

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Coppells Lost Coat » 01 Nov 2021 11:45

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has the texter to BBC Berks not been noticing that chap called Clarke coming on as sub every game for us?


In the 84th minute each game. What’s the point?


well he came on for 30 mins against Derby.

And the original question was ' a few minutes of gameplay'. So yes fits the description pretty well.



And to add - Clarke has done naff all in his cameo appearances to suggest he is the answer to our injury crisis.


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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by URZZZZ » 01 Nov 2021 12:04

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has the texter to BBC Berks not been noticing that chap called Clarke coming on as sub every game for us?


In the 84th minute each game. What’s the point?


well he came on for 30 mins against Derby.

And the original question was ' a few minutes of gameplay'. So yes fits the description pretty well.


Fair point but he only came on because of Halilovic’s injury. Sure he would have got his usual 5/10 minutes otherwise

Didn’t read the whole post so hold my hands up but just think it’s a waste of time throwing him on like for like the same time each game. From the snippets shown, he looks incredibly raw but perhaps worth a little bit more of a go, paired with Puscas?

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Nov 2021 12:22

Hound
Forbury Lion A texter to BBC Berks raised a valid point..... Do we not have any strikers in the pipeline? With the injuries we have up front, this is where you could take a chance and give the next Danny Loader, Darius Henderson or whoever a few minutes of gameplay.
The examples they quoted were Wayne Rooney and Micheal Owen who first got picked due to injuries, although I personally can't recall them ever playing for Reading :lol:


has the texter to BBC Berks not been noticing that chap called Clarke coming on as sub every game for us?

Or the other chap on the bench called Ehibhatiomhan

Or the lad Melvin-Lambert out on loan. Or Smith who was released in the summer as not good enough.

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Hound » 01 Nov 2021 12:50

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In the 84th minute each game. What’s the point?


well he came on for 30 mins against Derby.

And the original question was ' a few minutes of gameplay'. So yes fits the description pretty well.


Fair point but he only came on because of Halilovic’s injury. Sure he would have got his usual 5/10 minutes otherwise

Didn’t read the whole post so hold my hands up but just think it’s a waste of time throwing him on like for like the same time each game. From the snippets shown, he looks incredibly raw but perhaps worth a little bit more of a go, paired with Puscas?


I wouldn't be against it as a plan B to be honest. Clarke looks far from ready, but even if he won a couple of flick ons it might be worth a go. Would certainly prefer it to him replacing Puscas

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Sutekh » 01 Nov 2021 13:46

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Hound
Forbury Lion A texter to BBC Berks raised a valid point..... Do we not have any strikers in the pipeline? With the injuries we have up front, this is where you could take a chance and give the next Danny Loader, Darius Henderson or whoever a few minutes of gameplay.
The examples they quoted were Wayne Rooney and Micheal Owen who first got picked due to injuries, although I personally can't recall them ever playing for Reading :lol:


has the texter to BBC Berks not been noticing that chap called Clarke coming on as sub every game for us?

Or the other chap on the bench called Ehibhatiomhan

Or the lad Melvin-Lambert out on loan. Or Smith who was released in the summer as not good enough.


Azeez? Seems to be playing up front or out wide. He wasn’t really on the radar until this season - can he be classed as a striker?

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Nov 2021 14:11

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has the texter to BBC Berks not been noticing that chap called Clarke coming on as sub every game for us?

Or the other chap on the bench called Ehibhatiomhan

Or the lad Melvin-Lambert out on loan. Or Smith who was released in the summer as not good enough.


Azeez? Seems to be playing up front or out wide. He wasn’t really on the radar until this season - can he be classed as a striker?

Not for me. Maybe in a year or two of development. Much more a RF.

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Millsy » 11 Jan 2022 22:07

Not a gloat but now are we happy to talk about this seriously?

How many injuries since the start of this thread?

Pauno can fvck off but this situation is much more than just him.

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Re: Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jan 2022 22:17

Millsy Not a gloat but now are we happy to talk about this seriously?

How many injuries since the start of this thread?

Pauno can fvck off but this situation is much more than just him.

I'm starting to look at squad discipline.

Jem (who better to know about injuries) was saying it was really hard as a player doing your recovery routines to maintain what you could and make it back. Your body would be screaming and it's so easy to just not do the work, or quit early. It took really good one to one sessions with the physios being hardarses to get you there and a really strong desire and personality.

If the coaches aren't working to back that up, and the players aren't motivated to return to the shitshow, and the physios aren't great, you can see how recovery times spiral, set backs galore, and then sub par physios are having to monitor and support half a dozen players each, when they couldn't do it well with 2 each.

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