Ince out!

1204 posts
User avatar
Vision
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5052
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 20:53

Re: Ince out!

by Vision » 08 Feb 2023 07:26

Crowbar6753 If he keeps us up then he deserves the chance to lead us into next season. I also like everything he has done behind the scenes, I'm sure he has picked up a lot from his experiences with Manchester, Milan and England and it looks like he's put this to good use.

My only concerns is his tactics, substitutions and horribly negative style of play. Saying that he has stated that 4-4-3 is his preferred formation and hoping that as soon as we meet that magic number we will see a more positive brand of football.

If come the start of the season and we're still persisting with this boring brand of football then its a strong "Out" from me.


That might be his preferred formation but I don't think he'll be allowed to implement it. Bloody EFL picking on Reading again.

Mr Optimist
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2132
Joined: 15 Dec 2004 13:31
Location: Colwyn Bay Royals - Membership no.000001,

Re: Ince out!

by Mr Optimist » 08 Feb 2023 08:18

Vision
Crowbar6753 If he keeps us up then he deserves the chance to lead us into next season. I also like everything he has done behind the scenes, I'm sure he has picked up a lot from his experiences with Manchester, Milan and England and it looks like he's put this to good use.

My only concerns is his tactics, substitutions and horribly negative style of play. Saying that he has stated that 4-4-3 is his preferred formation and hoping that as soon as we meet that magic number we will see a more positive brand of football.

If come the start of the season and we're still persisting with this boring brand of football then its a strong "Out" from me.


That might be his preferred formation but I don't think he'll be allowed to implement it. Bloody EFL picking on Reading again.


According to Sheffield United and Billy Sharp, Wrexham played a 4-4-3 formation last night, so it is possible!

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39386
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Ince out!

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Feb 2023 09:48

Am I the only one that doesn't think Ince's current brand of football is boring and negative?

I far prefer it to the slow tedious shit under Stam and Paunovic. It's more positive than Bowen. Its not exactly implemented particularly well given our circumstances, but with better players and experience that'll improve.

South Coast Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5640
Joined: 16 Jan 2020 17:29

Re: Ince out!

by South Coast Royal » 08 Feb 2023 09:58

Vision
Crowbar6753 If he keeps us up then he deserves the chance to lead us into next season. I also like everything he has done behind the scenes, I'm sure he has picked up a lot from his experiences with Manchester, Milan and England and it looks like he's put this to good use.

My only concerns is his tactics, substitutions and horribly negative style of play. Saying that he has stated that 4-4-3 is his preferred formation and hoping that as soon as we meet that magic number we will see a more positive brand of football.

If come the start of the season and we're still persisting with this boring brand of football then its a strong "Out" from me.


That might be his preferred formation but I don't think he'll be allowed to implement it. Bloody EFL picking on Reading again.


Your last sentence is a bit worrying.
Has something further happened?

User avatar
Hendo
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 21031
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 20:53
Location: Lambs to the cosmic slaughter

Re: Ince out!

by Hendo » 08 Feb 2023 09:59

Snowflake Royal Am I the only one that doesn't think Ince's current brand of football is boring and negative?

I far prefer it to the slow tedious shit under Stam and Paunovic. It's more positive than Bowen. Its not exactly implemented particularly well given our circumstances, but with better players and experience that'll improve.


I really don't mind it either. I'd rather we were a bit more expansive at home but it has been mostly fine.

Certainly better than some real turgid rubbish we've been served up in the past.

The only thing I have a real grumble about is starting to play well/going forward when we're 1-0/2-0 down, as shown on the weekend.


Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24934
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Ince out!

by Hound » 08 Feb 2023 10:01

Snowflake Royal Am I the only one that doesn't think Ince's current brand of football is boring and negative?

I far prefer it to the slow tedious shit under Stam and Paunovic. It's more positive than Bowen. Its not exactly implemented particularly well given our circumstances, but with better players and experience that'll improve.


I don’t think it’s particularly boring or negative. Just we lack the quality to make it work sometimes

When we get on a roll - ie last 30 mins on Saturday it’s good to watch

YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Ince out!

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 08 Feb 2023 10:03

I don't find it that boring, but then again I don't watch us every week so I can understand why others who have a season ticket might do.

It's not exactly the most positive we've ever played either, but I don't mind as long as we get results at the moment. Although we've tried various different styles that are at completely different ends of the scale, think of Stam where it was all possession, Pauno being wide open, Bowen being a bit more compact, Ince being more firm and rigid and Clement who was similar. You can't please everybody I suppose.

At it's best, I personally preferred Pauno's style to everyone's we've had. Obviously at it's worst it was killing us.

Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24934
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Ince out!

by Hound » 08 Feb 2023 10:07

From Stam onwards in terms of entertainment only (not quality) I’d go

Gomes - Ince - Bowen - clement - Pauno - Stam

Not been exactly blessed with entertaining football tbh

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18383
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: Ince out!

by Sutekh » 08 Feb 2023 10:16

Hound From Stam onwards in terms of entertainment only (not quality) I’d go

Gomes - Ince - Bowen - clement - Pauno - Stam

Not been exactly blessed with entertaining football tbh


Wouldn’t class anything seen since “McDermott 1” as entertaining and Pauno’s time was the very worst football of anything seen at the club ever, though would agree that Stam’s effort has to be rated as the most tedious.


URZZZZ
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7279
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: Ince out!

by URZZZZ » 08 Feb 2023 10:29

As with last season, we don’t press high enough up the park. We let the opposition settle into every game as a result. Very few teams are able to successfully execute playing it out from the back so I’m not quite sure why we play so cautiously so often. I get we try and play with pressing “trigger points” but I don’t think it’s worked particularly well which goes with the amount of goals we concede

Similarly I’m not sure we have much of a plan attacking. We can’t string three passes together without it going back to Lumley. Must have one of the lowest possession stats in the league? We rarely create good chances for our strikers (four talented strikers on how many goals between them?). The movement in the team is too static. Said it many times before but this formation is so dependent on the wide players. Look how closely our form corresponds with Hoilett’s drop in form - almost from the exact same game (Norwich H game). Pace and directness hurts and to be fair to Ince, Azeez was a great choice as a sub at LWB on Saturday. The use of Rahman this season is baffling

Where we have improved tenfold this season is our ability to mix it up physically. Compare our performance at Luton this season to our home one last season back in January. Likewise winning at the Den is a fantastic result

16th is obviously a decent achievement given the pre-season predictions. But we’ve been on borderline relegation form since matchday 8 (that sounds familiar) and 4 wins in 18 is a concern. Calls for him to go are premature but the last thing we need is to be dragged down into a relegation fight with the fixtures we have coming up this month. And Ince has a history of starting well at jobs before dismantling

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7279
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: Ince out!

by URZZZZ » 08 Feb 2023 10:33

Sutekh
Hound From Stam onwards in terms of entertainment only (not quality) I’d go

Gomes - Ince - Bowen - clement - Pauno - Stam

Not been exactly blessed with entertaining football tbh


Wouldn’t class anything seen since “McDermott 1” as entertaining and Pauno’s time was the very worst football of anything seen at the club ever, though would agree that Stam’s effort has to be rated as the most tedious.


In fairness, we did seem to score a fair few under Stam (season 1 anyway). Do think to some extent Stam was a good coach who had clear ideas on what he wanted to do. Unfortunately he became more interested in trying to prove a point in his second season as a consequence of being unhappy with the transfer window. He was arrogant and his constant pot shots at the fans didn’t help his cause

Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24934
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Ince out!

by Hound » 08 Feb 2023 10:46

Stam season one we had a very clear plan, maybe forced onto us by lack of options, but also an excellent signing in Beerens

The front 3 of Kermogant, McCleary and Beerens were top quality, and supported well by Swift

We did grind out wins towards the end of that year but it was a struggle to watch us once Swift and GMC got injured and subsequently didn’t get back to their best

I’ve quite enjoyed Ince, Bowen and Clement football when it worked. Too often it’s been hampered by lack of quality and injuries

Pauno was incredibly reliant on the brilliance of Swift, Joao and Olise at their best.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39386
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Ince out!

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Feb 2023 10:47

Sutekh
Hound From Stam onwards in terms of entertainment only (not quality) I’d go

Gomes - Ince - Bowen - clement - Pauno - Stam

Not been exactly blessed with entertaining football tbh


Wouldn’t class anything seen since “McDermott 1” as entertaining and Pauno’s time was the very worst football of anything seen at the club ever, though would agree that Stam’s effort has to be rated as the most tedious.

Even McDermott 1, whilst exciting at times, wasn't high quality. It was spoil in midfield and hook it into the channels.


South Coast Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5640
Joined: 16 Jan 2020 17:29

Re: Ince out!

by South Coast Royal » 08 Feb 2023 10:52

URZZZZ
Sutekh
Hound From Stam onwards in terms of entertainment only (not quality) I’d go

Gomes - Ince - Bowen - clement - Pauno - Stam

Not been exactly blessed with entertaining football tbh


Wouldn’t class anything seen since “McDermott 1” as entertaining and Pauno’s time was the very worst football of anything seen at the club ever, though would agree that Stam’s effort has to be rated as the most tedious.


In fairness, we did seem to score a fair few under Stam (season 1 anyway). Do think to some extent Stam was a good coach who had clear ideas on what he wanted to do. Unfortunately he became more interested in trying to prove a point in his second season as a consequence of being unhappy with the transfer window. He was arrogant and his constant pot shots at the fans didn’t help his cause


Subsequent events show that he might not be cut out for management.

YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Ince out!

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 08 Feb 2023 11:52

URZZZZ As with last season, we don’t press high enough up the park. We let the opposition settle into every game as a result. Very few teams are able to successfully execute playing it out from the back so I’m not quite sure why we play so cautiously so often. I get we try and play with pressing “trigger points” but I don’t think it’s worked particularly well which goes with the amount of goals we concede

Similarly I’m not sure we have much of a plan attacking. We can’t string three passes together without it going back to Lumley. Must have one of the lowest possession stats in the league? We rarely create good chances for our strikers (four talented strikers on how many goals between them?). The movement in the team is too static. Said it many times before but this formation is so dependent on the wide players. Look how closely our form corresponds with Hoilett’s drop in form - almost from the exact same game (Norwich H game). Pace and directness hurts and to be fair to Ince, Azeez was a great choice as a sub at LWB on Saturday. The use of Rahman this season is baffling

Where we have improved tenfold this season is our ability to mix it up physically. Compare our performance at Luton this season to our home one last season back in January. Likewise winning at the Den is a fantastic result

16th is obviously a decent achievement given the pre-season predictions. But we’ve been on borderline relegation form since matchday 8 (that sounds familiar) and 4 wins in 18 is a concern. Calls for him to go are premature but the last thing we need is to be dragged down into a relegation fight with the fixtures we have coming up this month. And Ince has a history of starting well at jobs before dismantling


Agree in the main - I think we need to try and find some sort of balance. We do have a nice mix of powerful players, mixed with physical players, mixed with direct players. No reason as to why we can't go with wingers seen as we do have direct players such as Ince, Meite, Azeez and Hoilett who would probably thrive in those positions.

I think we've gone from one extreme to the other. Last season we had too many lightweight players in our squad in key areas (particularly midfield) whereas this season there is an obvious emphasis towards more physicality in the side (Sarr, Casadei, Hucthinson etc) although beggars can't be choosers this time with the restrictions. I like this physicality we've developed, it's made us a side much more suited to the division, but we definitely need some good wing backs/wingers that are forward-thinking and direct. Azeez fits this bill.

Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19576
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Ince out!

by Stranded » 09 Feb 2023 07:36

URZZZZ As with last season, we don’t press high enough up the park. We let the opposition settle into every game as a result. Very few teams are able to successfully execute playing it out from the back so I’m not quite sure why we play so cautiously so often. I get we try and play with pressing “trigger points” but I don’t think it’s worked particularly well which goes with the amount of goals we concede

Similarly I’m not sure we have much of a plan attacking. We can’t string three passes together without it going back to Lumley. Must have one of the lowest possession stats in the league? We rarely create good chances for our strikers (four talented strikers on how many goals between them?). The movement in the team is too static. Said it many times before but this formation is so dependent on the wide players. Look how closely our form corresponds with Hoilett’s drop in form - almost from the exact same game (Norwich H game). Pace and directness hurts and to be fair to Ince, Azeez was a great choice as a sub at LWB on Saturday. The use of Rahman this season is baffling

Where we have improved tenfold this season is our ability to mix it up physically. Compare our performance at Luton this season to our home one last season back in January. Likewise winning at the Den is a fantastic result

16th is obviously a decent achievement given the pre-season predictions. But we’ve been on borderline relegation form since matchday 8 (that sounds familiar) and 4 wins in 18 is a concern. Calls for him to go are premature but the last thing we need is to be dragged down into a relegation fight with the fixtures we have coming up this month. And Ince has a history of starting well at jobs before dismantling


Whilst I agree with a lot above I do just get annoyed by the parroting of the 4 in 18 stat without context. We had a run of 9 games, mainly away against teams, who st the time were largely in form or at the top of the table. We picked up about as many points as people expected in that run. It's why the good start was key.

In the 9 games since then, we are a top 10 team.

If you take from the restart, we are 14th and taken more points than all the bottom 5 bar Huddersfield, who have taken the same from a much easier run.

Our form is fine.

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18383
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: Ince out!

by Sutekh » 09 Feb 2023 09:12

Stranded
URZZZZ As with last season, we don’t press high enough up the park. We let the opposition settle into every game as a result. Very few teams are able to successfully execute playing it out from the back so I’m not quite sure why we play so cautiously so often. I get we try and play with pressing “trigger points” but I don’t think it’s worked particularly well which goes with the amount of goals we concede

Similarly I’m not sure we have much of a plan attacking. We can’t string three passes together without it going back to Lumley. Must have one of the lowest possession stats in the league? We rarely create good chances for our strikers (four talented strikers on how many goals between them?). The movement in the team is too static. Said it many times before but this formation is so dependent on the wide players. Look how closely our form corresponds with Hoilett’s drop in form - almost from the exact same game (Norwich H game). Pace and directness hurts and to be fair to Ince, Azeez was a great choice as a sub at LWB on Saturday. The use of Rahman this season is baffling

Where we have improved tenfold this season is our ability to mix it up physically. Compare our performance at Luton this season to our home one last season back in January. Likewise winning at the Den is a fantastic result

16th is obviously a decent achievement given the pre-season predictions. But we’ve been on borderline relegation form since matchday 8 (that sounds familiar) and 4 wins in 18 is a concern. Calls for him to go are premature but the last thing we need is to be dragged down into a relegation fight with the fixtures we have coming up this month. And Ince has a history of starting well at jobs before dismantling


Whilst I agree with a lot above I do just get annoyed by the parroting of the 4 in 18 stat without context. We had a run of 9 games, mainly away against teams, who st the time were largely in form or at the top of the table. We picked up about as many points as people expected in that run. It's why the good start was key.

In the 9 games since then, we are a top 10 team.

If you take from the restart, we are 14th and taken more points than all the bottom 5 bar Huddersfield, who have taken the same from a much easier run.

Our form is fine.


Reading are 13th in the form table over the last 10 games.

Form over the last 5 games should be starting to give cause for concern though, esp. the last away game against a cr@p Stoke team and the second half "stink out" v the fakes.

YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Ince out!

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 09 Feb 2023 09:21

Sutekh
Stranded
URZZZZ As with last season, we don’t press high enough up the park. We let the opposition settle into every game as a result. Very few teams are able to successfully execute playing it out from the back so I’m not quite sure why we play so cautiously so often. I get we try and play with pressing “trigger points” but I don’t think it’s worked particularly well which goes with the amount of goals we concede

Similarly I’m not sure we have much of a plan attacking. We can’t string three passes together without it going back to Lumley. Must have one of the lowest possession stats in the league? We rarely create good chances for our strikers (four talented strikers on how many goals between them?). The movement in the team is too static. Said it many times before but this formation is so dependent on the wide players. Look how closely our form corresponds with Hoilett’s drop in form - almost from the exact same game (Norwich H game). Pace and directness hurts and to be fair to Ince, Azeez was a great choice as a sub at LWB on Saturday. The use of Rahman this season is baffling

Where we have improved tenfold this season is our ability to mix it up physically. Compare our performance at Luton this season to our home one last season back in January. Likewise winning at the Den is a fantastic result

16th is obviously a decent achievement given the pre-season predictions. But we’ve been on borderline relegation form since matchday 8 (that sounds familiar) and 4 wins in 18 is a concern. Calls for him to go are premature but the last thing we need is to be dragged down into a relegation fight with the fixtures we have coming up this month. And Ince has a history of starting well at jobs before dismantling


Whilst I agree with a lot above I do just get annoyed by the parroting of the 4 in 18 stat without context. We had a run of 9 games, mainly away against teams, who st the time were largely in form or at the top of the table. We picked up about as many points as people expected in that run. It's why the good start was key.

In the 9 games since then, we are a top 10 team.

If you take from the restart, we are 14th and taken more points than all the bottom 5 bar Huddersfield, who have taken the same from a much easier run.

Our form is fine.


Reading are 13th in the form table over the last 10 games.

Form over the last 5 games should be starting to give cause for concern though, esp. the last away game against a cr@p Stoke team and the second half "stink out" v the fakes.


If we can build on the positives against Watford in the second half, then no reason why we can't go on a decent run, especially given the teams we are playing against in our next few games.

It's no secret that we do better against the sides that we tend to be better than and when you consider in our last 5 league games we've played three promotion chasing sides in Watford, West Brom and Norwich and got beat once and we've drawn with QPR who are in and around us, then you can say the only real "bad" result was Stoke away, although it was disappointing against QPR no doubt.

I don't think there is any reason to panic. If we don't win in our next 4 leagues games however, then there might be a bigger worry.

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7279
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: Ince out!

by URZZZZ » 09 Feb 2023 09:40

Hound Stam season one we had a very clear plan, maybe forced onto us by lack of options, but also an excellent signing in Beerens

The front 3 of Kermogant, McCleary and Beerens were top quality, and supported well by Swift

We did grind out wins towards the end of that year but it was a struggle to watch us once Swift and GMC got injured and subsequently didn’t get back to their best

I’ve quite enjoyed Ince, Bowen and Clement football when it worked. Too often it’s been hampered by lack of quality and injuries

Pauno was incredibly reliant on the brilliance of Swift, Joao and Olise at their best.


Quite. The defence got a fair portion of the blame in Stam’s second season but we only conceded a few more than we did in his first season. The real drop off was in the attack. But that’s what you get when you replace the aforementioned front four with Edwards and Bodvarsson (quite liked both but they were workmanlike and certainly not suited to Stam’s way), Aluko (who completely killed the balance of the team) and Barrow (another one who disrupted the balance of the team although at least posed a threat). It’s no wonder we dropped off so badly

Bowen is the stint that was the most frustrating. He found some really good partnerships around the pitch but inexplicably dropped them after one game. A consequence IMO, of having too large a squad and trying to keep players happy

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7279
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: Ince out!

by URZZZZ » 09 Feb 2023 09:52

Stranded
URZZZZ As with last season, we don’t press high enough up the park. We let the opposition settle into every game as a result. Very few teams are able to successfully execute playing it out from the back so I’m not quite sure why we play so cautiously so often. I get we try and play with pressing “trigger points” but I don’t think it’s worked particularly well which goes with the amount of goals we concede

Similarly I’m not sure we have much of a plan attacking. We can’t string three passes together without it going back to Lumley. Must have one of the lowest possession stats in the league? We rarely create good chances for our strikers (four talented strikers on how many goals between them?). The movement in the team is too static. Said it many times before but this formation is so dependent on the wide players. Look how closely our form corresponds with Hoilett’s drop in form - almost from the exact same game (Norwich H game). Pace and directness hurts and to be fair to Ince, Azeez was a great choice as a sub at LWB on Saturday. The use of Rahman this season is baffling

Where we have improved tenfold this season is our ability to mix it up physically. Compare our performance at Luton this season to our home one last season back in January. Likewise winning at the Den is a fantastic result

16th is obviously a decent achievement given the pre-season predictions. But we’ve been on borderline relegation form since matchday 8 (that sounds familiar) and 4 wins in 18 is a concern. Calls for him to go are premature but the last thing we need is to be dragged down into a relegation fight with the fixtures we have coming up this month. And Ince has a history of starting well at jobs before dismantling


Whilst I agree with a lot above I do just get annoyed by the parroting of the 4 in 18 stat without context. We had a run of 9 games, mainly away against teams, who st the time were largely in form or at the top of the table. We picked up about as many points as people expected in that run. It's why the good start was key.

In the 9 games since then, we are a top 10 team.

If you take from the restart, we are 14th and taken more points than all the bottom 5 bar Huddersfield, who have taken the same from a much easier run.

Our form is fine.


Context? We lost 2-0 to a team that had been winless for 8 games. Twice we’ve thrown away 2 goal leads. Also threw away two more leads against QPR and Burnley (although of course Burnley was desperately unlucky). Gave away a three goal lead against Birmingham (their only home win in 8), and lost 4-0 to a pretty woeful Stoke side

Course you can mitigate that with the 2-0 recovery on Saturday, winning from behind at Hull, and a decent point at Norwich but the bottom line is we should have more wins in that period. And that’s why we’ve dropped to being 1st in October (even if it was only for four minutes!) to being 16th

Sure, do think there is an every growing divide in the Championship that wasn’t so apparent before. The top six is all fairly predictable with West Brom, Watford, Boro, SU and Burnley all there. But do somewhat feel there’s been a missed opportunity given our start.

1204 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Linden Jones' Tash, Richard, Royals and Racers, tmesis and 410 guests

It is currently 28 Mar 2024 08:37