Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by Nameless » 27 Apr 2022 10:16

NathStPaul
Nameless
NathStPaul Whilst your permanent optimistic approach is laudable, you have to wake up and live in the real world at some point.

We don't have scouting, we have Kia Joorabchien.

Paul Ince isn't an exciting appointment, it is a cost effective one.

We are going to be in a relegation fight with a squad who no doubt will have been cobbled together at the last minute, similar to Derby did at the start of this season. Picking up players on cheap contracts who couldn't get deals elsewhere.


Much rather Paul’s ebullience than totally unrealistic negativity !
Some world class nonsense from you there....

What part of what I said is nonsense? All fact. Please offer up what you disagree with and why.


Not sure youunderstand what ‘facts’ are. All your points are opinions, none are facts.

Comparison with Derby is the obvious one. They were barred from recruiting. We are not barred from recruiting, can pay fees and offer reasonable contracts. Absolutely no reason to compare us now with them last summer.
Joorabchian is a mixed blessing. He’s enabled some very good signings for us, we don’t just sign players he has connections with, people throw his name in without actually coming up with negative things he’s done. I’m ambivalent about him but he is absolutely not our only source of players (how many of the current squad are on the books of agents linked to him ?)
Ince has done well, we have no idea what he’s been paid. The cost effective option would have been to give Gilkes the job, not employ Ince/Rae. Hard to tell if he’s exciting. McDermott was cost effective rather than exciting, Pardew was cost effective rather than exciting, Quinn/Gooding were cost effective rather than exciting, McGhee was cost effective rather than exciting. They all did ok....

YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 27 Apr 2022 10:20

Let's be fair though, I think we could probably say safely that everyone from Bristol City downwards is going to be in some sort of trouble next season, whether that's looking over their shoulders or deep in the mire. Obviously including the 3 promoted sides.

But it depends on what everyone's squads look like come July and who/if anyone receives points deductions.

User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10528
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by NathStPaul » 27 Apr 2022 10:25

Nameless
NathStPaul
Nameless
Much rather Paul’s ebullience than totally unrealistic negativity !
Some world class nonsense from you there....

What part of what I said is nonsense? All fact. Please offer up what you disagree with and why.


Not sure youunderstand what ‘facts’ are. All your points are opinions, none are facts.

Comparison with Derby is the obvious one. They were barred from recruiting. We are not barred from recruiting, can pay fees and offer reasonable contracts. Absolutely no reason to compare us now with them last summer.
Joorabchian is a mixed blessing. He’s enabled some very good signings for us, we don’t just sign players he has connections with, people throw his name in without actually coming up with negative things he’s done. I’m ambivalent about him but he is absolutely not our only source of players (how many of the current squad are on the books of agents linked to him ?)
Ince has done well, we have no idea what he’s been paid. The cost effective option would have been to give Gilkes the job, not employ Ince/Rae. Hard to tell if he’s exciting. McDermott was cost effective rather than exciting, Pardew was cost effective rather than exciting, Quinn/Gooding were cost effective rather than exciting, McGhee was cost effective rather than exciting. They all did ok....

The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.

User avatar
Hendo
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 21034
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 20:53
Location: Lambs to the cosmic slaughter

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by Hendo » 27 Apr 2022 10:32

NathStPaul
Nameless
NathStPaul What part of what I said is nonsense? All fact. Please offer up what you disagree with and why.


Not sure youunderstand what ‘facts’ are. All your points are opinions, none are facts.

Comparison with Derby is the obvious one. They were barred from recruiting. We are not barred from recruiting, can pay fees and offer reasonable contracts. Absolutely no reason to compare us now with them last summer.
Joorabchian is a mixed blessing. He’s enabled some very good signings for us, we don’t just sign players he has connections with, people throw his name in without actually coming up with negative things he’s done. I’m ambivalent about him but he is absolutely not our only source of players (how many of the current squad are on the books of agents linked to him ?)
Ince has done well, we have no idea what he’s been paid. The cost effective option would have been to give Gilkes the job, not employ Ince/Rae. Hard to tell if he’s exciting. McDermott was cost effective rather than exciting, Pardew was cost effective rather than exciting, Quinn/Gooding were cost effective rather than exciting, McGhee was cost effective rather than exciting. They all did ok....

The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.


Can you provide this documented evidence? I see his name banded about with every signing we make, but I am not really sure it applies to everyone.

It could also be argued that his connections kept us up in 2018/19 as without Ovie, Baker, Olivera, Emi and Miazga - who were all or mostly "linked" to him - we'd certainly have gone down.

YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 27 Apr 2022 10:36

Hendo
NathStPaul
Nameless
Not sure youunderstand what ‘facts’ are. All your points are opinions, none are facts.

Comparison with Derby is the obvious one. They were barred from recruiting. We are not barred from recruiting, can pay fees and offer reasonable contracts. Absolutely no reason to compare us now with them last summer.
Joorabchian is a mixed blessing. He’s enabled some very good signings for us, we don’t just sign players he has connections with, people throw his name in without actually coming up with negative things he’s done. I’m ambivalent about him but he is absolutely not our only source of players (how many of the current squad are on the books of agents linked to him ?)
Ince has done well, we have no idea what he’s been paid. The cost effective option would have been to give Gilkes the job, not employ Ince/Rae. Hard to tell if he’s exciting. McDermott was cost effective rather than exciting, Pardew was cost effective rather than exciting, Quinn/Gooding were cost effective rather than exciting, McGhee was cost effective rather than exciting. They all did ok....

The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.


Can you provide this documented evidence? I see his name banded about with every signing we make, but I am not really sure it applies to everyone.

It could also be argued that his connections kept us up in 2018/19 as without Ovie, Baker, Olivera, Emi and Miazga - who were all or mostly "linked" to him - we'd certainly have gone down.


He was also partly responsible for the signing of Joao as well, who has been a successful signing for us, even for the money we have paid for him.

I also don't see the evidence for out of contract players that "nobody else wants". I'm not sure it's a case of inability to spend money or struggling to tie down new deals either, clubs can typically leave it until the end of the season before renewing/not renewing deals for players, our situation probably just makes us give it some more thought of who we can retain and who we can't, but that's applicable with any club financially.


User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10528
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by NathStPaul » 27 Apr 2022 10:37

Hendo
NathStPaul
Nameless
Not sure youunderstand what ‘facts’ are. All your points are opinions, none are facts.

Comparison with Derby is the obvious one. They were barred from recruiting. We are not barred from recruiting, can pay fees and offer reasonable contracts. Absolutely no reason to compare us now with them last summer.
Joorabchian is a mixed blessing. He’s enabled some very good signings for us, we don’t just sign players he has connections with, people throw his name in without actually coming up with negative things he’s done. I’m ambivalent about him but he is absolutely not our only source of players (how many of the current squad are on the books of agents linked to him ?)
Ince has done well, we have no idea what he’s been paid. The cost effective option would have been to give Gilkes the job, not employ Ince/Rae. Hard to tell if he’s exciting. McDermott was cost effective rather than exciting, Pardew was cost effective rather than exciting, Quinn/Gooding were cost effective rather than exciting, McGhee was cost effective rather than exciting. They all did ok....

The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.


Can you provide this documented evidence? I see his name banded about with every signing we make, but I am not really sure it applies to everyone.

It could also be argued that his connections kept us up in 2018/19 as without Ovie, Baker, Olivera, Emi and Miazga - who were all or mostly "linked" to him - we'd certainly have gone down.

He is an invidual who represents footballers and has the ear of a football club owner. I would count that as too much influence. He is in a DoF role in all but name if you believe what has been reported by reputable outlets. I don't have an issue with the club working with a "super agent" but there should be a step inbetween the agent and the owner which is what we are lacking. We need someone with a wealth of experience to be there to bridge the gap and shield the owners from bad business decisions imo. Mr McDermott would be the man for this job.

YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 27 Apr 2022 10:42

NathStPaul
Hendo
NathStPaul The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.


Can you provide this documented evidence? I see his name banded about with every signing we make, but I am not really sure it applies to everyone.

It could also be argued that his connections kept us up in 2018/19 as without Ovie, Baker, Olivera, Emi and Miazga - who were all or mostly "linked" to him - we'd certainly have gone down.

He is an invidual who represents footballers and has the ear of a football club owner. I would count that as too much influence. He is in a DoF role in all but name if you believe what has been reported by reputable outlets. I don't have an issue with the club working with a "super agent" but there should be a step inbetween the agent and the owner which is what we are lacking. We need someone with a wealth of experience to be there to bridge the gap and shield the owners from bad business decisions imo. Mr McDermott would be the man for this job.


We don't really know the ins and outs though. If our owner is absolutely hell bent on using Kia as his advisor, is there really any use to hiring a DoF as a middle man if the owner will just listen to his advisor(s) anyway?

Not to suggest it's a bad idea, it obviously isn't, but it might not work practically speaking.

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by Nameless » 27 Apr 2022 10:44

NathStPaul
Nameless
NathStPaul What part of what I said is nonsense? All fact. Please offer up what you disagree with and why.


Not sure youunderstand what ‘facts’ are. All your points are opinions, none are facts.

Comparison with Derby is the obvious one. They were barred from recruiting. We are not barred from recruiting, can pay fees and offer reasonable contracts. Absolutely no reason to compare us now with them last summer.
Joorabchian is a mixed blessing. He’s enabled some very good signings for us, we don’t just sign players he has connections with, people throw his name in without actually coming up with negative things he’s done. I’m ambivalent about him but he is absolutely not our only source of players (how many of the current squad are on the books of agents linked to him ?)
Ince has done well, we have no idea what he’s been paid. The cost effective option would have been to give Gilkes the job, not employ Ince/Rae. Hard to tell if he’s exciting. McDermott was cost effective rather than exciting, Pardew was cost effective rather than exciting, Quinn/Gooding were cost effective rather than exciting, McGhee was cost effective rather than exciting. They all did ok....

The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.


We were right next to Derby at the back of the queue last year and got 3 Premiership loans, a highly experienced international, a highly experienced PL player.... we then added another highly experienced international and 3 more internationals. No transfer fees paid. Really can’t believe you think Hoilett and Carroll are examples of the poor level of player we might attract !
We’ve not agreed many new contracts yet for blindingly obvious reasons of not knowing what division we would be in until 5 days ago.
Could you provide the documentation relating to Joorabchian. As I said I’m ambivalent. How many ‘weird’ signings have been an issue ? Hein ? How many good signings have come through him ? Baker, Miazaga, Martinez, Oliviera, Joao ? How much has he made as a result of the signings ? He’s a divisive character for sure and I don’t think agents and fixers are generally good for the game. Criticism of his involvement here is always lacking in specifics...
The fact that you think we would have gone for a ‘bigger’ name than Ince is quite funny. I reckon most serious fans woukdn’t want a ‘big’ name, they would Want a competent coach. And in football terms Man United and England legend Ince is one of the biggest ‘names’ we’ve had at the club.

User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10528
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by NathStPaul » 27 Apr 2022 10:45

YorkshireRoyal99
NathStPaul
Hendo
Can you provide this documented evidence? I see his name banded about with every signing we make, but I am not really sure it applies to everyone.

It could also be argued that his connections kept us up in 2018/19 as without Ovie, Baker, Olivera, Emi and Miazga - who were all or mostly "linked" to him - we'd certainly have gone down.

He is an invidual who represents footballers and has the ear of a football club owner. I would count that as too much influence. He is in a DoF role in all but name if you believe what has been reported by reputable outlets. I don't have an issue with the club working with a "super agent" but there should be a step inbetween the agent and the owner which is what we are lacking. We need someone with a wealth of experience to be there to bridge the gap and shield the owners from bad business decisions imo. Mr McDermott would be the man for this job.


We don't really know the ins and outs though. If our owner is absolutely hell bent on using Kia as his advisor, is there really any use to hiring a DoF as a middle man if the owner will just listen to his advisor(s) anyway?

Not to suggest it's a bad idea, it obviously isn't, but it might not work practically speaking.

I think that is the reservation McDermott has spoken about in recent interviews. You can see he wants to come back in some capacity but is worried his influence will be diminished.


User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10528
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by NathStPaul » 27 Apr 2022 10:49

Nameless
NathStPaul
Nameless
Not sure youunderstand what ‘facts’ are. All your points are opinions, none are facts.

Comparison with Derby is the obvious one. They were barred from recruiting. We are not barred from recruiting, can pay fees and offer reasonable contracts. Absolutely no reason to compare us now with them last summer.
Joorabchian is a mixed blessing. He’s enabled some very good signings for us, we don’t just sign players he has connections with, people throw his name in without actually coming up with negative things he’s done. I’m ambivalent about him but he is absolutely not our only source of players (how many of the current squad are on the books of agents linked to him ?)
Ince has done well, we have no idea what he’s been paid. The cost effective option would have been to give Gilkes the job, not employ Ince/Rae. Hard to tell if he’s exciting. McDermott was cost effective rather than exciting, Pardew was cost effective rather than exciting, Quinn/Gooding were cost effective rather than exciting, McGhee was cost effective rather than exciting. They all did ok....

The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.


We were right next to Derby at the back of the queue last year and got 3 Premiership loans, a highly experienced international, a highly experienced PL player.... we then added another highly experienced international and 3 more internationals. No transfer fees paid. Really can’t believe you think Hoilett and Carroll are examples of the poor level of player we might attract !
We’ve not agreed many new contracts yet for blindingly obvious reasons of not knowing what division we would be in until 5 days ago.
Could you provide the documentation relating to Joorabchian. As I said I’m ambivalent. How many ‘weird’ signings have been an issue ? Hein ? How many good signings have come through him ? Baker, Miazaga, Martinez, Oliviera, Joao ? How much has he made as a result of the signings ? He’s a divisive character for sure and I don’t think agents and fixers are generally good for the game. Criticism of his involvement here is always lacking in specifics...
The fact that you think we would have gone for a ‘bigger’ name than Ince is quite funny. I reckon most serious fans woukdn’t want a ‘big’ name, they would Want a competent coach. And in football terms Man United and England legend Ince is one of the biggest ‘names’ we’ve had at the club.

Paul Ince hadn't worked for about 7 years until we hired him and was more or less a complete disaster in his last few jobs. How good of a coach is he exactly? Answer is we do not know and I have already said I am not necessarily against him but I'm not at all convinced. How many people were calling out for Paul Ince to be brought in? The popular choices were established names who have a proven track record.

YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 27 Apr 2022 10:53

NathStPaul
Nameless
NathStPaul The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.


We were right next to Derby at the back of the queue last year and got 3 Premiership loans, a highly experienced international, a highly experienced PL player.... we then added another highly experienced international and 3 more internationals. No transfer fees paid. Really can’t believe you think Hoilett and Carroll are examples of the poor level of player we might attract !
We’ve not agreed many new contracts yet for blindingly obvious reasons of not knowing what division we would be in until 5 days ago.
Could you provide the documentation relating to Joorabchian. As I said I’m ambivalent. How many ‘weird’ signings have been an issue ? Hein ? How many good signings have come through him ? Baker, Miazaga, Martinez, Oliviera, Joao ? How much has he made as a result of the signings ? He’s a divisive character for sure and I don’t think agents and fixers are generally good for the game. Criticism of his involvement here is always lacking in specifics...
The fact that you think we would have gone for a ‘bigger’ name than Ince is quite funny. I reckon most serious fans woukdn’t want a ‘big’ name, they would Want a competent coach. And in football terms Man United and England legend Ince is one of the biggest ‘names’ we’ve had at the club.

Paul Ince hadn't worked for about 7 years until we hired him and was more or less a complete disaster in his last few jobs. How good of a coach is he exactly? Answer is we do not know and I have already said I am not necessarily against him but I'm not at all convinced. How many people were calling out for Paul Ince to be brought in? The popular choices were established names who have a proven track record.


In defence of Ince, his record isn't all that, bad short-term at least anyway.

But understand the point about it being strange to hire someone out of work for 7 years. Of course us as fans will want the obvious names.

User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10528
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by NathStPaul » 27 Apr 2022 10:57

YorkshireRoyal99
NathStPaul
Nameless
We were right next to Derby at the back of the queue last year and got 3 Premiership loans, a highly experienced international, a highly experienced PL player.... we then added another highly experienced international and 3 more internationals. No transfer fees paid. Really can’t believe you think Hoilett and Carroll are examples of the poor level of player we might attract !
We’ve not agreed many new contracts yet for blindingly obvious reasons of not knowing what division we would be in until 5 days ago.
Could you provide the documentation relating to Joorabchian. As I said I’m ambivalent. How many ‘weird’ signings have been an issue ? Hein ? How many good signings have come through him ? Baker, Miazaga, Martinez, Oliviera, Joao ? How much has he made as a result of the signings ? He’s a divisive character for sure and I don’t think agents and fixers are generally good for the game. Criticism of his involvement here is always lacking in specifics...
The fact that you think we would have gone for a ‘bigger’ name than Ince is quite funny. I reckon most serious fans woukdn’t want a ‘big’ name, they would Want a competent coach. And in football terms Man United and England legend Ince is one of the biggest ‘names’ we’ve had at the club.

Paul Ince hadn't worked for about 7 years until we hired him and was more or less a complete disaster in his last few jobs. How good of a coach is he exactly? Answer is we do not know and I have already said I am not necessarily against him but I'm not at all convinced. How many people were calling out for Paul Ince to be brought in? The popular choices were established names who have a proven track record.


In defence of Ince, his record isn't all that, bad short-term at least anyway.

But understand the point about it being strange to hire someone out of work for 7 years. Of course us as fans will want the obvious names.

Thats the worry for me, the long term. After Pauno, I think any one of us could have gone in and got more of a tune out of the players, Paunovic had clearly had lost the dressing room totally. I worry Ince might be similar to Gomes where he comes in and brings the players together to get out of a hole but isn't what we require long term. The Hull game on Saturday is an example of what I think we will see a lot of next season but it could just be me being pessimisitc about the club due to the last couple of seasons of chaos.

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by Nameless » 27 Apr 2022 10:59

NathStPaul
Nameless
NathStPaul The Derby comparison wasn't related to finances, it is related to being at the back of the queue for players. Our market will be and has been those players who are available on free contracts that nobody else wants. Andy Carroll, Junior Hoilett to name two. There is nothing to suggest that won't be the same come the start of next season. The fact we are struggling to tie down anyone to new deals would indicate an inability to spend money.

Joorabchian has too much influence at the club which is pretty much a widely held view and well documented. A lot of the weird signings we have made come through him, he has a lot of connections within football and friends in high places of course but that doesn't equate to it being a positive thing for Reading.

Ince isn't my major issue here, it certainly cannot be called 'exciting' though. I think the evidence suggests he is definitely a cheap option for the club though. Our inability to pay big wages along with the fact we got him in from the abyss suggest that. We would have gone after a much bigger name had the money been there.


We were right next to Derby at the back of the queue last year and got 3 Premiership loans, a highly experienced international, a highly experienced PL player.... we then added another highly experienced international and 3 more internationals. No transfer fees paid. Really can’t believe you think Hoilett and Carroll are examples of the poor level of player we might attract !
We’ve not agreed many new contracts yet for blindingly obvious reasons of not knowing what division we would be in until 5 days ago.
Could you provide the documentation relating to Joorabchian. As I said I’m ambivalent. How many ‘weird’ signings have been an issue ? Hein ? How many good signings have come through him ? Baker, Miazaga, Martinez, Oliviera, Joao ? How much has he made as a result of the signings ? He’s a divisive character for sure and I don’t think agents and fixers are generally good for the game. Criticism of his involvement here is always lacking in specifics...
The fact that you think we would have gone for a ‘bigger’ name than Ince is quite funny. I reckon most serious fans woukdn’t want a ‘big’ name, they would Want a competent coach. And in football terms Man United and England legend Ince is one of the biggest ‘names’ we’ve had at the club.

Paul Ince hadn't worked for about 7 years until we hired him and was more or less a complete disaster in his last few jobs. How good of a coach is he exactly? Answer is we do not know and I have already said I am not necessarily against him but I'm not at all convinced. How many people were calling out for Paul Ince to be brought in? The popular choices were established names who have a proven track record.


I guess the same number of people were calling for Ince as were calling for Pardew, McGhee, McDermott (1st time). People were excited at Stam’s appointment.
Ince came in as an interim manager, you don’t tend to getestablished names with proven track records to take 4 month jobs fighting relegation (unless you go for Big Sam).


YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 27 Apr 2022 11:04

NathStPaul
YorkshireRoyal99
NathStPaul Paul Ince hadn't worked for about 7 years until we hired him and was more or less a complete disaster in his last few jobs. How good of a coach is he exactly? Answer is we do not know and I have already said I am not necessarily against him but I'm not at all convinced. How many people were calling out for Paul Ince to be brought in? The popular choices were established names who have a proven track record.


In defence of Ince, his record isn't all that, bad short-term at least anyway.

But understand the point about it being strange to hire someone out of work for 7 years. Of course us as fans will want the obvious names.

Thats the worry for me, the long term. After Pauno, I think any one of us could have gone in and got more of a tune out of the players, Paunovic had clearly had lost the dressing room totally. I worry Ince might be similar to Gomes where he comes in and brings the players together to get out of a hole but isn't what we require long term. The Hull game on Saturday is an example of what I think we will see a lot of next season but it could just be me being pessimisitc about the club due to the last couple of seasons of chaos.


Which was exactly my point a few days ago about interim managers being significantly worse in a shorter period of time compared to permanent managers, as we saw with Frankie McAvoy at Preston this season for example and there are many examples of others as well.

I've always maintained that we should be looking for a different person to Ince. Not that he doesn't deserve credit for a job well done, but he's done the job he's been asked to do so we shake hands and move on.

User avatar
From Despair To Where?
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22959
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: See me in m'pants and ting

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by From Despair To Where? » 27 Apr 2022 12:56

Playing devil's advocate here but everyone talks about losing Swift but what if we managed to shift Moore and then signed Jack Wilshire on a 1 year contract for £15,000 p/w

He currently on a short-term contract in Denmark.

User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10528
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by NathStPaul » 27 Apr 2022 12:58

If you're playing in Denmark there is a reason you are playing in Denmark. No thanks.

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by Nameless » 27 Apr 2022 13:15

NathStPaul If you're playing in Denmark there is a reason you are playing in Denmark. No thanks.

Is it excellent medical facilities they have in Scandinavia ?

YorkshireRoyal99
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5005
Joined: 10 Aug 2017 18:07

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 27 Apr 2022 13:31

From Despair To Where? Playing devil's advocate here but everyone talks about losing Swift but what if we managed to shift Moore and then signed Jack Wilshire on a 1 year contract for £15,000 p/w

He currently on a short-term contract in Denmark.


Not sure that would work for me personally. Certainly a talented player but I don't think it's who we should go for. I can imagine there is enough selection from an Arsenal, Chelsea or Man United youth set up who have the creativity to go be good enough in the Championship.

Not to say Wilshere isn't good enough, as I don't agree with the comment about "playing in Denmark for a reason", I just think there are too many issues to iron out with him, be it injury record, wages etc.
Last edited by YorkshireRoyal99 on 27 Apr 2022 13:48, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hendo
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 21034
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 20:53
Location: Lambs to the cosmic slaughter

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by Hendo » 27 Apr 2022 13:33

Yeah, I don't think I would be too thrilled with the most injury prone player in England, in recent memory coming here to play. Unless it was on a pay-as-you-play deal or something stupidly low like we did for Carroll, would imagine he will have better offers than that though.

User avatar
Franchise FC
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10855
Joined: 22 May 2007 16:24
Location: Relocated to LA

Re: Can we find 3 teams worse than us next season?

by Franchise FC » 27 Apr 2022 13:35

NathStPaul
paultheroyal I am already excited for next season. Total refresh of squad, hopefully some secret scouting has been going on, and we can be the surprise package. With Paul Ince at helm, i am up for an exciting 22/23 season. URZ!

Whilst your permanent optimistic approach is laudable, you have to wake up and live in the real world at some point.

We don't have scouting, we have Kia Joorabchien.

Paul Ince isn't an exciting appointment, it is a cost effective one.

We are going to be in a relegation fight with a squad who no doubt will have been cobbled together at the last minute, similar to Derby did at the start of this season. Picking up players on cheap contracts who couldn't get deals elsewhere.

If we perform exactly as Derby did this year we’ll still be 21 points better off than they are and probably safe as we approach the end of the ‘business plan’

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Horsham Royal and 338 guests

It is currently 29 Mar 2024 02:11