Genuine Poll- Who is to blame?

Where does the blame lie?

Coppell's Poor Tean management
11
9%
Sir JM's Lack of investment
65
51%
Combination of Both
29
23%
Just a small club destined to fail regardless of the above
22
17%
 
Total votes: 127
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floyd__streete
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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by floyd__streete » 21 Aug 2009 13:39

It seems that the tide is turning against the club, that the goodwill built up between 2005-07 is evaporating. Season ticket sales are down. More than a smattering of boos at full time at Swansea on Tuesday night. Another non-scoring defeat tomorrow and I think that the disatisfaction will be all too audible.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by floyd__streete » 21 Aug 2009 13:44

I also note two of the lead articles on the official website today are calling for patience/support of the fans; the club itself knows people are losing patience and these pleas would seem a bit desperate really. I wish that they could fill the space with news of those desperately needed new signings.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Hoop Blah » 21 Aug 2009 13:57

rhroyal Very much agree, although you're letting the players off in that post. That 2-0 defeat against Fulham was one of the most passionless, poor quality, insipid and nonchalant performances I've ever seen from a Reading side, and had it not been for that we would have stayed up. We barely cared against Spurs until the last 20 minutes or so. You can claim that Coppell had trouble motivating, but with so much at stake, professional players should not have needed motivating so much.


Professional players who knew that they'd still get paid if they lost and got relegated (although they'd take a hit in the pocket through the relegation wage cuts IF they didn't secure a move away - didn't stop Doyle and Hunt getting a pay rise to keep them after post-cuts if you get what I mean).

There was a real closed shop feel about the starting eleven when we went down. A real lack of competition and desire to prove a point or aim for anything but survival (a recipe for failure). That was down to Coppell in my book.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by westongeezer » 21 Aug 2009 14:06

OMG all this after 3 games..............we'll be wearing balck and white shirts soon...NUBS :evil:

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by roberto_11 » 21 Aug 2009 14:21

It was losing 8 in a row around the turn of the year which got us relegated. That terminally damaged the players confidence and from there as soon as Fulham got there act together we were doomed


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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by RoyalBlue » 21 Aug 2009 14:30

Unfortunately I can't be at the game tomorrow but hopefully there will be sufficient there who will let JM know exactly what they (and I) think about our current situation with players being sold like it's going out of fashion and the manager still not able to sign the players that he has clearly stated that he wants.

I reckon JM has two particular things that he doesn't like taking a bruising - his wallet and his ego. I just hope he's got some ice ready to apply.

westongeezer OMG all this after 3 games..............we'll be wearing balck and white shirts soon...NUBS :evil:


And still the badly broken record from the past couple of seasons keeps being trotted out - don't worry things will be alright! :roll:
Last edited by RoyalBlue on 21 Aug 2009 14:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by peterroyal76 » 21 Aug 2009 14:30

Blame for what?

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Deathy » 21 Aug 2009 14:34

peterroyal76 Blame for what?


We've been relegated, keep up.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Mad Dog's Ghost » 21 Aug 2009 14:38

You'll get the answer in the next 10 days.

If BR is unable to get funds for the players he wants then the blame for our demise lies squarely in Saint John Madejski's hands.


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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Z175 » 21 Aug 2009 14:39

Deathy
peterroyal76 Blame for what?


We've been relegated, keep up.



From where?

is this WHOS TO BLAME FOR ME NOT SUPPORTING ONE OF THE TOP 20 CLUBS IN BRITAIN?


erm.... you?

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Wimb » 21 Aug 2009 14:44

georgerob I don't think it was lucky and a fluke that we finished 8th in the premiership, as the players that season were beaming with confidence from the previous season and from how well they were doing from that season. The players had something to prove if they could play in the premiership and the result against middlesbrough on the first day gave them that belief. As well maybe a few teams did not really know what we were about and underestimated us.
I feel as if we did not build upon the first season in the premiership, as coppell thought he could stick with the same players for a second season because of what they have achieved and the trust and confidence he had in them. Obviously this cost us and the loss of Steve Sidwell was a major blow as well; and to this day 3 or whatever seasons on we still realistically haven't found a replacement for Sidwell as Matejovsky or Emerse Fae or Harper haven't and didn't really stepped up to fill his boots.
I believe if we bought experienced premiership players in or quality foreign buys in the second premiership season such as John Mensah, Gary O'Neill, Matthew Taylor etc..... we would of had a longer spell in the premier league. However I believe Coppell was at fault for not doing this because of his trust in the players he already had, and from the evidence of this season Madejski is to blame as well as it shows that he is not overly keen to invest in the squad.


Oh for goodness sake, you've defeated your own argument there. We TRIED to buy those players you mentioned (with the possible exception of Taylor) and more such as Scott Brown. Problem was they looked at the club as a fluke who had achieved 1 season of greatness in 138 years and picked more established sides here and abroad. So please don't come on here spouting carp about us not trying to strengthen. Yes Coppell showed too much faith, but with the transfer window system we had it wasn't like we could magically go out and spend.

I want us to battle with the big boys and show some ambition but our chairman, DOF and manager have opted against the win or bust mentality in favour of trying youth, making astute signings and gradually building.

As the Labour Government once tried to do, this regime wants to put an end to boom and bust.

I'd LOVE us to go out and spend a load of money and bring in some big names, but funnily enough my opinion isn't as informed as someone who has run a football club from the third tier to the top tier in the space of 20 years. More to the point I've never managed a business where millions of pounds are involved......

If failing to win 3 games, 2 away from home is the biggest tragedy that can befall a football club currently ranked in the top 40 in this entire country then bloody heck, people really need to get a grip.


good post but that won't stop the rtg's like royal rother (whose head is buried so deep in the sand, kids are using his feet to make sandcastles-incidentally he remains a man who i respect greatly) having a go at you. What they fail to realise is the true fan is not s/he who supports at all costs/no matter what, no the true fan is s/he who, despite how much it pains him/her, will criticise/protest when necessary in order to prevent the club's silent demise.

there is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER, that despite great success on the balance sheet the club is on a downward spiral. I pity those who are content with this and whose measure of success is dependant on profit margins rather than margins of victory on the pitch. They see Leeds and Newcastle in awful strife and say "well at least we're not in their position", it really is the most self-defeating of arguments, it's like someone saying, "well i know i've lost my job and had to sell most of my possessions but heh at least i'm not seriously ill" - an argument of convenience and self-delusion, carry on deluding folks, some of us expect better but while your laidback mindset of "we are only Reading" persists, we'll get exactly what we deserve, the mediocrity that is espoused and condoned by a large proportion of our fanbase, oh ye dreamless ones, will you die knowing no light?


Oh come on Gus, you're smarter then that. It is not a self defeating argument because Leeds, Bradford et all give us LESSONS that we should learn from. It's like seeing someone fall down a big hole in the street and then taking on that hole in the hope that you'll be able to jump over it. It make take less time if you jump, but walking round it will get you where you need to go, it'll just take longer.

Every single fan of the club wants to see the club do well, where this conflict is coming from is those that have patience and believe in a different approach to gaining success. Versus those who believe the only way you can succeed is to throw money at a problem.

Rather then bitching and complaning why don't you just support the club, have your questions yes but please give this a chance.

At least if we get relegated it might actually give some fans on this board some perspective.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Deathy » 21 Aug 2009 14:53

Z175
Deathy
peterroyal76 Blame for what?


We've been relegated, keep up.



From where?

is this WHOS TO BLAME FOR ME NOT SUPPORTING ONE OF THE TOP 20 CLUBS IN BRITAIN?


erm.... you?


:lol: Lolwut?

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Cookie » 21 Aug 2009 14:55

Grant you it does all look like two steps back to make three steps forward. :roll:

Stand aside all you Championship teams The Royals are about to make three giant steps for Madkind. :lol:


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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Z175 » 21 Aug 2009 15:04

Mad Dog's Ghost You'll get the answer in the next 10 days.

If BR is unable to get funds for the players he wants then the blame for our demise lies squarely in Saint John Madejski's hands.



Reading FC has had 40m invested in it by John Madejski.

14m of this is shares in RFC Holdings, the rest is a loan he provides to the club at 1%. He personally forgoes the interest he would earn on this in a savings account - about 1m a year difference.
Other funding is mainly via bank overdraft, which was at 10m in 2004.

Reading FC made a 5m loss in 2005 and a 7m loss in 2006. These were funded by the chairmans money above. The clubs net assets are negative. if the chairman resigned, the club would be insolvent.
The wage bill was 9m in 2005 and 12m in 2006. this rocketed up to 28m in 2007 and 31m in 2008. TV money was 500k in 2005/6 but then 26m and 34m in 2007 and 2008.
Therefore the increased tv money provided about 12m extra, after increased wages.

However, the club is normally lossmaking, so the extra 12m relates to a 6m profit each year in the premierleague. This was used to clear out our bank overdraft.

In 2008/9, and in 2009/10, we will also have 16m each year in parachute payments.

Yet in 2008 the club has been paying premierleague salaries. Ok reduced ones by 2007 and 2008, but still far more than the 2006 wagebill. I estimate the most we can have reduced our 30m wagebill to is about 20m, which is double what it was when we won the league in 2006. Therefore our annual loss of 6m becomes a loss of 16m, just covered by the parachute payment.

Our 2009 parachute payment will be available to spend- our wage bill should now be back down to CCC levels. however we won't have received it yet - I don't think its prudent to spend tv money before you get it in a recession - look at itv digital!

So in answer to the "Where has the premiership money gone and why wasn't it invested?"

It was invested in the salaries of the players that got us relegated, who the club are unsurprisingly now happy ot get rid of!


The transfer income is another side of things - approximately 25m net. But if we spend it all now John Madejski will continue to spend 6m a season on funding the club, given what hes done already, I don't think hes morally obliged to do this. Also, look at Gretna, their investor had health issues and his family turned off the funding. With that 25m in the bank we're a lot less dependant on the health of one man.

He could pocket the 25m transfer money and the 16m parachute payments, giving him his investment back and allowing him to sell the club to the supporters for £0. But to fund it on a daily basis we'd need to pay double for our season tickets, and there still wouldn't be any money for transfers. And if the fanbase shrinks like it is doing we'd be back down a league in no time.
Last edited by Z175 on 21 Aug 2009 15:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by peterroyal76 » 21 Aug 2009 15:08

Deathy
peterroyal76 Blame for what?


We've been relegated, keep up.



We were relegated two seasons ago! Most of my years supporting Reading have been abysmal with not much to shout about, so ok we've not started the season too well, but is there REALLY that much wrong?
People have short memories! We all want the team to play excellent football and win the league,cup trophies etc, but in reality only a handful of clubs will win anything in any given season. We all dream its going to be our season.....maybe it will...maybe it won't, but I will still be there...................WILL YOU?

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by brendywendy » 21 Aug 2009 15:12

these threads are getting daft

its 2 games in FFs



and i find it almost impossible to comprehend how or why a group of fans who have supported a club that has spent the majority of its history in the 3rd/4th tier, and only in the last 6 years under JMs stewardship have started to cement their place in the 2nd tier would suddenly start going all gay because we arent top flight and spending gazillions of pounds every window.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by FiNeRaIn » 21 Aug 2009 15:18

brendywendy these threads are getting daft

its 2 games in FFs



Swansea didn't count then? I like your style.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Whose to blame?

by Handsome Man » 21 Aug 2009 15:20

Statistics.
I think it is called reversion to the mean - read some Stephen Jay Gould.

It also explains the curse of Manager of the Month, some people's belief in homeopathy, why Steve Harmison is no longer the best bowler in the world, etc.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Who is to blame?

by Royal Rother » 21 Aug 2009 15:50

Rodgers is blooding the young players and doubtless sussing them out but it will take time.

In the meantime those of us with level heads and faith in what the club and its manager are doing will just have to put up with the negativity on this board, or not bother contributing.

I've already said all I have to say on the subject in that I support the philosophy of bringing the young players through with a new style of football, and that I support the tight financial management of the club - the fact that there will be some ups and downs along the way doesn't phase me or scare me.

It's sport, and it's somebody else's money - both of those areas are being managed by 2 people so far more successful in their fields of expertise than any individual on this board has ever been. It seems ridiculous to me that their expertise and actions are being questioned so vociferously and, in many cases insultingly, after the manager has had so little time at the helm and after the Chairman has brought so much success and kudos to the club over the last 20 years.

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Re: Genuine Poll- Who is to blame?

by Hoop Blah » 21 Aug 2009 16:08

Royal Rother ... so far more successful in their fields of expertise than any individual on this board has ever been


Apart from Snowball you mean?

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