Coach Travel Aston Villa & Wigan

bracknell loyal royal!
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by bracknell loyal royal! » 08 Aug 2006 18:55

This needs sorting out, STAR!

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by STAR Voice » 08 Aug 2006 19:34

Last month I did have a long and involved conversation with the Sports Unit at the NSPCC on this subject. It was actually part of my role as an FSF National Council member, but what I learnt applies equally well to STAR.

RIP EP is correct, in that there is currently no compulsory requirement for CRB checks for coach stewards, although these are highly recommended as a best practice for everyone in a supervisory capacity where children are under 18. Since the 1999 Protection of Children Act it has been possible for clubs and other non-government organisations to apply for CRB checks for their members, but, as stated, it is still not compulsory.

However, before very long this will be a definite legal requirement - the legislation following the Bichard Enquiry (resulting from the Soham murders) is currently going through Parliament, and when this is introduced CRB checks will be a legal requirement for everyone supervising under-18's, whether they are paid or not. This will almost certainly include coach stewards (and in fact stewards at football grounds have recently come under the scope of existing requirements for CRB checks). Further to this, many bodies (including the FA) make having a stated Child Protection Policy and having CRB checks for all relevant staff a requirement for funding or affiliation.

So yes, whilst it is not compulsory, every organisation worth its salt is recognising that once you know about the situation with Child Protection then you need to decide what your policy is, and our old policy leaves us very liable.

I did talk also about "liability waiver forms" with the lady from the NSPCC - they consider these to be worthless and certainly not worth the paper they're written on. If any accident or incident happens, the fact that a parent had written one of these forms out would almost certainly be deemed irrelevant by the courts - the fact that a steward takes responsibility for a coach means that they are also accepting responsibility for minors on that coach - and a piece of paper won't absolve them from that responsibility.

Regarding airlines - they do actually take legal responsibility, and they have certain stewards/esses who are especially trained - I've send an unaccompanied minor to the USA myself, and as well as having several forms to complete there are complicated procedures and ID checks for the people dropping and collecting the minor - it's a fairly major administrative operation for which American Airlines charge you $50! Probably profiteering, I know, but to make the point that it's not a trivial thing to do even for professional travel organisations.

So, in summary, perhaps we might get away with taking unaccompanied minors for another year, but as Reading FC and the NSPCC have advised us against it, we consider the risk to be too high.

We are not a company where we can have set training courses etc - all of our stewards are volunteers, and we consider the risk to them (and to us) of taking liability for unaccompanied minors to be an unacceptable one. This is not only the risk of litigation in the event of accident etc, but also the risk of a minor being arrested or injured (so the steward has to remain with them), and also the risk of the steward or another passenger being accused of something untoward involving minors.

So, sorry if this upsets people, but the world, sadly, is changing and we have to protect ourselves and our stewards. I remember the days when 5 year-olds were passed down over people's heads so they could stand at the front of terracing, and they're long-gone.

davis69
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by davis69 » 08 Aug 2006 19:45

im 15 nt 5 m8

STAR Voice
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by STAR Voice » 08 Aug 2006 19:47

davis69 im 15 nt 5 m8


As far as the law is concerned, a minor is anyone under 18.

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Platypuss
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by Platypuss » 08 Aug 2006 19:48

davis69 im 15 nt 5 m8


Don't write like you're 5 then.


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by ayjaydee » 08 Aug 2006 19:54

Platypuss
davis69 im 15 nt 5 m8


Don't write like you're 5 then.


That's a bit disrespectful to 5 year olds!

davis69
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by davis69 » 08 Aug 2006 19:58

i agree with trying to keep minors safe but come on with in reason i could understand maybe under 13 needed to be accomplied by an adult but 14, 15, 16, 17 come on surely every fan should have equal rights all i want to do is follow reading fc

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RG30
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by RG30 » 08 Aug 2006 20:10

Get over it, STAR have no option in this ruling and are going on advice given.

davis69
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by davis69 » 08 Aug 2006 20:12

isnt it possilbe to run one coach for youths


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The_Cat
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by The_Cat » 08 Aug 2006 20:22

davis69 isnt it possilbe to run one coach for youths
Go by train.

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rabidbee
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by rabidbee » 09 Aug 2006 02:04

davis69 im 15 nt 5 m8


A well-considered reply to a well-considered message! :roll:

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rabidbee
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by rabidbee » 09 Aug 2006 02:05

davis69 i agree with trying to keep minors safe but come on with in reason i could understand maybe under 13 needed to be accomplied by an adult but 14, 15, 16, 17 come on surely every fan should have equal rights all i want to do is follow reading fc


Write to your MP, then, as this is out of STAR's hands.

Unless every junior royal could pay for their own personal steward?...

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by Readingfanman » 09 Aug 2006 08:47

rabidbee
davis69 i agree with trying to keep minors safe but come on with in reason i could understand maybe under 13 needed to be accomplied by an adult but 14, 15, 16, 17 come on surely every fan should have equal rights all i want to do is follow reading fc


Write to your MP, then, as this is out of STAR's hands.

Unless every junior royal could pay for their own personal steward?...

So the same as taking a personal guirdan then.Just having to pay for it.


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by Farnborough Royal » 09 Aug 2006 09:12

So are 16 and under allowed to travel unaccompanied with YRs? but under 18s can't with STAR? :? I wish STAR had said something before I had joined STAR. £5 well spent :roll:

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AndyRFC
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by AndyRFC » 09 Aug 2006 10:41

Farnborough Royal So are 16 and under allowed to travel unaccompanied with YRs? but under 18s can't with STAR? :? I wish STAR had said something before I had joined STAR. £5 well spent :roll:



Someone said somewhere that YR won't be running this season

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by Readingfanman » 09 Aug 2006 10:48

AndyRFC
Farnborough Royal So are 16 and under allowed to travel unaccompanied with YRs? but under 18s can't with STAR? :? I wish STAR had said something before I had joined STAR. £5 well spent :roll:



Someone said somewhere that YR won't be running this season

After people had joined STAR , so they could travel on the coaches. :lol:
Well it's £5 saved I suppose not joining Star this year. :)

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Silver Fox
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by Silver Fox » 09 Aug 2006 11:49

STAR-could anyone who has had a CRB check for any other reason potentially serve as a steward? If so would it be possible to ask STAR members who have already had their checks to volunteer to be stewards, rather than get stewards checked?

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by STAR Liaison » 09 Aug 2006 12:01

Silver Fox STAR-could anyone who has had a CRB check for any other reason potentially serve as a steward? If so would it be possible to ask STAR members who have already had their checks to volunteer to be stewards, rather than get stewards checked?


I understand that you have to have a new CRB check for each situation - that is that your certificate can be used only for the reason it was issued.

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moo
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by moo » 09 Aug 2006 19:26

Seems a bit weird, letting the under 18's catch the train instead is a lot more dangerous!!

I guess you lot could just book the bus ticket and use a fake ID, or book it and ask some kind adult in the que to say they are with you!

I'd feel uncomftorable offering youngsters a lift despite being 21 so only a little older, im sure others would feel the same! PLus thats a lot more 'dangerous'

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RIP ELM Park
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by RIP ELM Park » 09 Aug 2006 19:28

I think starliasons post shows, STAR have made every effort to resolve this, unfortunately the world today means these measures are needed, the real fault here lays with the Government, not for the legislation but for their complete inability to put in place the organisation to process the CRB checks efficiently.

As I mentioned before it's been my unfortunate task in the past to have to deal ith the CRB on a regular basis. Countless companies and individuals have suffered because of their shocking organisation and inability to process simple checks against various databases.

Of course part of the solution would be the introduction cumpulsory ID cards however the the screaming from the human rights lobby means that's a non-starter too.

So don't blame RFC, Don't Blame STAR, Blame society, the Government or the namby pampby Liberals.

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